Wth Happened To Kilos Kilos :o Nute Issue

[KiLoEleMeNt]

Hey fellow farmers I am having an issue here that I don't commonly run into???

I built this room about a year in a half ago and have run a bunch of trial and error projects as well as fun stuff just to see to get it dialed in for perpetual growing. Well this round I decided to change it up and do all my girls at the same time so I got them all clean of soil since they were in one gals as I ran out of RW cubes they didn't show any shock before or after putting them in (never have shocked much when doing this and only did when I was to rough on the roots) but they have slowed way down in growth, look a lil pale and so i dumped the rez let them run on water over nite, thinking they just were not ready for such easy food and gave fresh nutes (same nute as soil at same application both times adjusting for hydroponics application) and went a lil lighter on nutes then added a lil C4 to the line. After i did this they stopped growing at all really/visibly? So again I dumped ran plain water they looked happier again. So this time I changed up from black label to mills a lil on the light side but for the most part a Normal recommended application and now they started yellowing from the bottom like cal deficiency (what I suspected from start) fixed cal application as I did leave it out in the same rez all mills line and woke up this morning to this and kinda feel at a loss on what could be the issue???

There is about 12 of 24 doing this

So to recap I have used zym, folic/folvic separately, cal/mag, a different line of nutrients, and a additive line that usually fixes these problems called moonshine park with and without both lines. I usually only put 6-8 in at a time pulling 6-8 every two weeks with new in their place at full power flower nutes from time in till time out and they go in dark at this time in buckets of water to finish. However this time i put everything in at one time after washing my system out as normal (just Water and a rag) no funny smell in rez or room water is mostly clear (micro makes a bit o color) tried double the watering schedule at one point only to make things worse. I consulted my many books and these great threads all leading the same place but cal/mag nor magnese seems to fix it any help would be great hate to throw out 24 girls over something so very simple I am clearly missing or overlooking cuz I got to cumfy with my autopilot style system and for got the ABC (always be careful) of hydro lol

 

[Lurkin4yrs]

How do the roots look? Are they starting to come out of the net pot?

 

[Ned Kelly]

Man id try a foliar feed with a bit of n and cal mag could be a lock out of some sort not really sure buts thats were id go first . To me it looks almost n deficient . but if it was me id call dr fresh he's the best at this stuff . @Joe Fresh

 

[Ned Kelly]

or @Seamaiden

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

How do the roots look? Are they starting to come out of the net pot?

Roots look good white and jus popin out a lil bit since they were just transplants a week or two ago and from soil I don't expect much root growth out of the basket yet no perfectly white roots until i get good new growth but guess they got a little more tinge/color than I thought (looked two days ago slightly whiter) i don't feel this to be too bad tho due to the circumstances and I blame most of it on all the rez swaps burning them up rather than rot or anything? However Comments?

Man id try a foliar feed with a bit of n and cal mag could be a lock out of some sort not really sure buts thats were id go first . To me it looks almost n deficient . but if it was me id call dr fresh he's the best at this stuff . @Joe Fresh

You know I hadn't thought of a foliar it's just not in my habits to do or even think about really good looking out and I agree about it being N Def had a talk with a buddy who cross referenced like five charts and we came up with N not Ca but he agreed that a Ca could have been the primal cause of total snowballing lock out afterwards and now it's full blown lock? Soooo now that I got them all screwy I'm heavy thinking on a toss out or giveaway to my sic house buddy's but going to give it one more week wait for others to chime in before doing anything then probably gonna try out a foliar of soul synthetics pure nitro with c4 or Cal/mag what you recommend out of the two mills or botanicare for the Ca if that dose not work or makes it worse I'll just get my next lineup put in and call it a day I hope to get it fixed however hate to A. Lose my girls and B. Not learn something I should already Flippin know

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

:bigtears:

OH MY FARMING GOD ITS UGLY IN HERE RITE NOW :punch::vomit::punch::banghead::banghead::banghead::vomit::hungover:

Well there is the roots barley any new growth at all you can barely see a tiny bit O white on the bottom right side :sorry: checked a few this is the worst looker

Then here is a full row of six one rite next to the other all separate strains or phenotypes I keep p#1 and p#2 sometimes so in order I have
#1 cheese quake don't mind the center leaf this was my doing almost dropped her had to catch her by the leaf :(

Then #2 Is NYCD

#3 cannatonic

#4 lambsbread

#5 the last bucket in picture blue dream

And the sad suckered next to her is a dieing lamb

I am so freaking lost here some blew out good jumped rite into flower nice n proper and then others are near death never had so many variations of fucked in one set and it is extremely upsetting and it seems as if they can't even make up their mind on what is going on since the cannatonic now looks better than this morning or yesterday even it was one of the first photos I put up I think had a few pm so kinda lost track where iv said what so far

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

So to go back just a bit here this should have been up here hours ago..... I do use RO water from a hydrologic tripple sediment filter that also has the coco and fiber filters on it just for looking cool i think lol after three seds the fiber seems redundant i dont use much additional nutrients either just like to change up my line from time to time they all run A B and one amendment black label is my usual suspect I run it at 6-700 until week three of flower then jump it up to 1000 and commonly push until I get a bit of curl then back way off for a few days until they show relief then set my ppm 250 lower than it was at curl usually 1200 1300tops I run my co2 at 1200 consistent shutting down at dark of course. Keep my temps at 72 constantly. rez temp just under that! @$ For the specific of what I have done in here so far....I started off normal nutes as always then two days later noticed the issue and I did my first refil went half run at 300 ppm added some zym hoping it would unlock them but seemed to make zero difference, then another dump a day in a half later did refill of just Water for 16 or so hours redid nutes at half again waited three days and got worse so i added some c4 and folvic they stayed the same no worse no better for the better part of 24hrs with no good or bad difference after that so let stand another 24hrs had some droop and curl (i suspect this was from the acid level being way to high) $o dumped again refill just Water again 16 hrs give or take got better letstand for 12 more hours curl left but again more yellow so i added just humic to the water at like 1/4 let stand got better greener then way worse a day ir so later (may have missed the boat at this point) and so dump water again 12 hr or less after filled it with full power mills just a and b they stayed stable for a few days but no improvement still yet then they got sad again used moonshine park full line at half on top of mills as it is more of an additive than nute line but acts like it is one. Did this with no dump and they stayed stable if not the same a lil greener for two more days but then this morning it's full blown issue yellowing again and only some of them seem affected I am at a total loss to what they want from me at this point been on plain water since 5am this morning not changing until I toss them or get a definitive answer

Strains are
Cheese quake
Cannatonic
Nycd
Lambs bread

Same as last run i did with the addition of a blue dream and swapping out everyone not just my usual 6-8 all of the strains have the issue just not all the plants some look fine if not great but are a bit older some leafs are to dark some to light some yellower than donkey beer piss and this is how I feel :bookworm::banghead::bookworm::banghead::bookworm::banghead: where in the quest for the Holy grail is the :pompous: seems he along with my brain said :brb: and never did come back cuz I smell bad or something

So @Ned Kelly looks like there won't be any further comments today from those I really wish would say something as I bow to their superiority so i am going to do a foliar tonight and pray your smarter than I am on this what rate u suppose I should go full on or little bit here n there and wait for their reaction to it? I'ma lean on you for this one at the moment but I won't blame u if it goes epic bad in here

@Seamaiden and @Joe Fresh I could really use a hand here if you got a minute please and thanks in advance even if u can't help you saw this so u tried

 

[Ned Kelly]

Hope the foliar works for u bro it's pulled my arse out of the fire . I'm sure those two will pipe in at some point . Just use supper fine mist and I feed mine over a 6 hr period 3 light feeds . Respect and good luck

 

[Joe Fresh]

ive never grown hydro, but it looks as if you have a lockout issue going on...the yellowing on the plants looks to be a sulfur issue...lack of, or lockout of sulfur ...ive usually had this when my nutes have been way too high, and they build up until stuff gets locked out due to ph...

did i read correctly that you usually start at 5-700ppm until week 3 of flower and then push it to 1000ppm or higher(12-1300) until leaves curl? less is more....i always tell ppl this...i know most ppl who do the UC dwc are usually around 6-700ppm at peak flower...im in soild and im at 6-750ppm in peak flower...i think your way too high...at 1000ppm or 12-1300ppm, your feeding the way someone would if they were using rockwool or something with a top drip drain to waste system, or a top drip recirculating system....this way you can monitor your rez drops and rises and know how much the plants are eating and how much is getting left beind in the medium.....but you are in uc system...no medium for the roots, just pure water....i would lower my nutes to about half....

whats you ph at? how does it drift? up or down? fast or slow? how often do you adjust you ph?

also high salt nutrient concentrations will inhibit root growth, so lower nutes will allow roots to grow more vigorously

and last thing...you got little young plants, right beside much larger and older plants, all in the same system, if your feeding the same to all of these plants then for sure the smaller ones will not be able to eat the same amount as the older ones

 

[Joe Fresh]

edit: nevermind on the uc system, just seen you got a flown grow flood system....i woul still lower my nutes...ive noticed in my experience anything over 1000 will fry the roots or put the plant in lockout

again, ive never farmed in hydro, so im going off my experience with the plant, ad in soil and coco...and also my knowlege of hydro, but no actual experience in hydro

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

edit: nevermind on the uc system, just seen you got a flown grow flood system....i woul still lower my nutes...ive noticed in my experience anything over 1000 will fry the roots or put the plant in lockout

again, ive never farmed in hydro, so im going off my experience with the plant, ad in soil and coco...and also my knowlege of hydro, but no actual experience in hydro

Ph sits pretty at 5.8 nearly never moves more than a one hundredth or two either direction before I swap rez (every one or two weeks) this is depending on how much water they drank and my Ms/cM count or I get the occasional ec spike tho strangely with no other movement maybe ppm down some once but could have just been the plants eating could this ec anomaly cause the issue somehow?

Sulfur! ok? I will look into this that would make a fair amount of sense as it is hard to determine sometimes!
If I remember rite... sulfer deficiency will cause sever chlorosis (hence the extreme yellowing) rite? It starts from the back of the leaf and works forward which is very different from most deficiency and is commonly mistaken for nitro or calcium deficiency holy shit bro I think you may have solved it :artist: The only thing I can find at the moment since it is so rare it is short and sweet and said the same thing with the add on of pink and red underside of leaf and stem let's go find out rite now shall we

Well would you look at that. This is nearly the exact phto used as an example :banghead: :bookworm::dead: as promised I bow to thy knowledge thow art greater than I and I appreciate the help bro

As for The rockwool thing this is actually something I have forgotten to mention here and probably could have sped things along as I most commonly use 3in or four inch rock wool cubes for my vegg and just bury them under the hydroton for flower and have always done cubes in gutters or on tables at real high nutes once u add my co2 boost they get its bonkers some times. But as I was saying, This was another change for me this round... I had ran out of blocks and was unable to get more until last week just got them delivered yesterday and these girls have been growing in soil the switch was slightly different for me I usually have one or two every few weeks that come out of soil but the majority are in rockwool and I think this could be a major part of my issues because I have been on rockwool for so long I am used to 1000ppm being perfect 1200 to blast untill leaf turn drop to 750 and let it ride. And as for the rez and nute thing I agree with less is better but my motto is size does matter ;) that's why I run two of the same system side by side so i can have my 6-7 and my 1k however this time and only this time since they all went in on the same day All of them together i am running it as one unit. This also could be part of the issues but I don't see how this is why I am so confused cus those nice looking bigger plants are only like a week older in vegg from clone but we're under the same lights and soil removed and put in hydro at same time then the others locked while they went on to grow and bush and the others were getting stripped down of bad growth/ dead stuff they were beginning to show good sex on a 14/10 cycle still getting all the same crazy swaps with the sic ones. So @Joe Fresh according to this article I am reading here to unlock sulfer quick and easy is to drop ph to 4.0 with lite or no nutes for a few feedings then do fresh rez swap make sure ph is dead perfect nutes in the 250 to 300 ppm area if problem fixes go back to normal after that..... the begining of that sounds real bogus to mee bro idk if I Wana do that what say you on the cure?

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

We got movement people thank you for all the replies and good vibes +100 rep @Joe Fresh for killing it with a bullseye hattrick Thanks again man spent a while searching ways to fix sulfer lock wound up over at ic for a few hours and one of the guys I talk to had experience with a surprisingly similar situation and told me to run my ph a lil bit higher to compensate for the loss of the soil environment. No nutes in rez for now just foli with a humic and marine algae of my choice or instead of alge I could try sea kelp so i went with these two here

also added a tiny bit of soul synthetics pure N and great white micorize per his and many others request for successful fix and boy am I glad this is almost behind me have not ran into an issue I couldn't fix in a very long time just goes to show you no matter how long you have been growing how many books you have read how old you are the learning curve will never ever stop in the world of

botany/aggregate, noun ag•gre•gate|definition [ a whole formed by combining several (typically disparate) elements
Or
A material or structure formed from a loosely compacted mass of fragments or particles

the adjective version is this

Formed or calculated from the combination of many separate units ; total


Don't you all think this description sounds strangely like the grower community in general

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

Had to check on them just out of fear and they are doing much better color is coming back and new growth some pics of them rite now and then we are all off to bed the last one is the lamb that was about dead look at her recovery rate makes me so happy pic number fours new growth has some nice terpene leaf action goin on

 

[ShroomKing]

Looks nice. I'm glad they are recovering. I was going to suggest swinging your Ph up a few points(up to 6.2), then back down since I observed a slight nute burn on some leaf tips, accompanied by the fade ; had me leaning towards Ph issue.

Best of luck.
Peace

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

Well your exactly rite since PH imbalances is what caused the sulfer deficiency however fixing the PH does not fix the issue until you unlock the plant so you wind up fighting a uphill double battle now that I know this, I can be fairly sure the cause of the problem was two main things at once that I did not consider as a whole or try and fix singularly. First and foremost nutes were to high and application to different (the culprit here being no rockwool and bare root to nute) Then the ph was way to low way to fast at 5.5-5.8 (because I did not consider the soil being 6.8 in the runoff) this causes a few locks mine happen to be sulfer I know this for sure because the way the leaf yellowed (back to front not tip down and the leaf veins were still dark but changing to purple red) and the remedy I was given worked perfectly also. So in a sence i was to busy trying to keep PH perfect and nutes low and trying to unlock with zym which helps with N lock and micro uptake as I had thought it was N locked I didn't consider the huge PH differance it was perfectly normal as far as I could tell and the fact I had no rockwool blox on them and the swap from soil to hydro PH was clearly at a dangerous level...... I hope this saves someone else all the trouble I had!!! Down the road somewhere I am sure it will.

 

[Lurkin4yrs]

I have a few plants that look simular, I Transplanted from coco loco to stright coc I honestly thought it was a nitrogen problem. Weird this is I feed both mediums the same.

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

Fairly sure the uptake would still be different; as the consistency of the substrate is different, there is now more air to the roots. I would think anyway not totally sure this is where I was so confused.