The Charts--Helpful charts for making nutrient deficiency diagnoses

[madmaster420]

Figures in green are the sweet spot, yellow and red are out of range.

View attachment 365647

I like to keep my spaces around 1.22

that is an awesome chart. thank you very much

 

[Smoking Gun]

just needed to stop by and show Seamaiden that im back on track, the charts and advice helped out alot...
View attachment 380513 ... The Stable, doin much better...


thanx for the help...
crate

Good to see you were able to get back on track.

 

[click80]

@ftwendy, I found that my sweet spot is right around yours. I used to run my temp at 80 degrees until someone on here who runs CO2 also, found that contrary to the bibles recommendation of 80 with CO2 supplementation, got better results at 76-78. So I lowered mine and run it at 76 and agree. I increased yield indirectly. The lower temp gave me better root health. Visibly better. I use 3 gallon smart pots so I think at 80 my roots were a little too warm.

I keep mine at 1.23 - 1.07= 76 degrees with 60 - 65% humidity.

 

[ftwendy]

Hell yeah @click80... once you get a handle on vpd, it's so much easier to understand how to create an excellent environment. Thanks for sharing the input

 

[click80]

Hell yeah @click80... once you get a handle on vpd, it's so much easier to understand how to create an excellent environment. Thanks for sharing the input

This is not too far off topic as Alfalfa tea, for me, is more convenient to apply as a foliar spray at certain times. You have to be careful though.

I just came across an article I found some time back when trying to figure out the best way to foliar feed. There is more to it than just assuming that stomata is the point of entry for foliar nutrition. the efficacy of foliar feeding is enhanced, sometimes by a large margin, by foliar feeding during high humidity (but not too high according to some sources) and foliar feeding when the plant is well hydrated.

Here is a link the entire article which contains a very nice diagram of the leave, cuticle layer and stomata. At the end of the article are cites and links to additional information if you like reading that type of stuff.
http://www.growersmineral.com/pdf/The GP - Foliar Nutrition.pdf

Some excerpts.

"In past times, many researchers believed that the cuticle presented such a barrier to the
penetration of nutrient solutions that uptake would not occur and that the only possible means of
penetration would be only through stomatal pores. It is now thoroughly established that this is not
the case. The stomatal opening may well be of relatively minor importance as an opening for
foliar nutrients due to the fact that the stomatal pores have a cuticle lining also. There has been, of
course, a search for pores in the cuticle of leaves by electron microscopy, but there is no indication
of a general occurrence of these pores except for a few species."

"Finally, other conditions such as leaf age, light concentration, nutritional status of plant,
and moisture conditions influence the plant's absorption of foliar applied nutrients. For example,
hydration of the cuticle causes swelling, the wax platelets which are interspersed throughout the
cuticle are spread further apart and penetration is facilitated. When the cuticle is dry either from
lack of moisture in the plant or from the absence of moisture on the leaf surface, the framework
constricts and impedes entry. It is well known that foliar absorption is most rapid in the presence
of leaf surface moisture, higher humidity conditions permit this condition."

And this is what clued me into how to get my root explosion from Foliar Application of Alfalfa Tea right before and after flip.

Some have suggested that the best way to foliar apply nutrients is to
"read the crop". However, Growers Chemical Corporation believes it is unwise to wait for the
appearance of a deficiency symptom before using foliar nutrition. The foliar spray should be used
with the objective of maintaining crops at an optimal productivity status.
Another defined benefit of foliar feeding comes from what is termed the "photon pump
priming effect" mechanism. By this we mean that after foliar nutrition is applied to the plant,
increased chlorophyll production and syntheses occur. From this extra chlorophyll, an increase in
cellular activity and respiration occurs that increases uptake by the plant vascular system in
response to the increased water needs of the plant. This increase in uptake automatically brings
more nutritional elements into the plant. The need for more moisture and greater gaseous
exchange stimulates additional root mass to provide it. Excess sugars produced by the plant from
the additional chlorophyll are excreted by the root hairs and stimulate microbial colonies on the
roots by providing additional energy sources. The bacterial and fungal colonies in turn provide
auxins, root stimulation compounds, and mineral nutrients to the plant. More root hairs and root
tissue further increase the plant's ability to uptake water and mineral elements. A chain reaction
can be set off by foliar nutrition to set up this loop. Great efficiencies are to be obtained with
foliar nutrition when we stimulate this pumping mechanism.

...and

Growers Chemical Corporation has for many years advised producers to use foliar nutrition
as close to plant reproduction stages as possible. Researchers now have shown that at flowering,
many plants, having achieved their largest leaf surface, show a marked depression in general
overall metabolic activity including nutrient uptake by the roots. Therefore, these researchers state
foliar applications of nutrients should be especially beneficial under such conditions.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic.

 

[Prime C]

 

[CelticEBE]

@Seamaiden do you mind if I post more like the one above? It's a series that go into each element. Also have a few other images that I think may be useful as well.

 

[Seamaiden]

Go for it!

 

[CelticEBE]

This is the series I was speaking of.

 

[CelticEBE]

Here's a few others that are similar to ones posted...just a little different.

 

[growchick421]

Great charts, Thanks celtic!!!!!! Ill have to copy the symptoms and lock out charts for sure :cat:

 

[Smoking Gun]

I found these the other day. I think they are easy to read and a good tools.

 

[ElManiaco]

I keep getting a deficiency with one strain while all others are thriving in great lush green health. I've heard how OG's are finicky but I figured as long as I'm doing organic, with all major & trace nutrients available, that I'd be good. BUT this Chemdog D x Fire OG bx3 has been going in & out of doing this to me, have a look...

 

[ElManiaco]

I know all plants have diff needs so I always try balancing their needs. If you've dealt with this issue & with this or similar cross, please chime in... Thanx

 

[ElManiaco]

Forgot...
It's in 6th week veg in soil, organic nutes. Under cfl's, temps in the 68-80 range, fresh air always , ph'd water @6.4-6.8 ( ph meter, calibrated often), cal-mag every other watering.

 

[Seamaiden]

Eeehh... I know that I tried to help caregiverken make a diagnosis in this thread, but between that, the other charts others are posting and now this, I think you might be better served simply starting a thread on your problem plant. Otherwise there's a good chance your post is just going to get lost in what's becoming a thread of several pages.

Besides, Sea needs to see the whole plant, along with more information. Soil or soilless (specific media is most helpful)? How much of organic nutes? What are the nutes? Etc, etc, etc.

 

[ElManiaco]

Eeehh... I know that I tried to help caregiverken make a diagnosis in this thread, but between that, the other charts others are posting and now this, I think you might be better served simply starting a thread on your problem plant. Otherwise there's a good chance your post is just going to get lost in what's becoming a thread of several pages.

Besides, Sea needs to see the whole plant, along with more information. Soil or soilless (specific media is most helpful)? How much of organic nutes? What are the nutes? Etc, etc, etc.

I apologize, I wasn't thinking when I posted this here & I figured out what was the issue with that plant you & caregiver ken helped me on. I'll start another thread since it's not the same plant & thanks for the quick response Sea.

 

[toquer]

ok so a few chemistry questions.?
given these facts...
ammonium toxicity is more prevalent in acidic soils
nitrate toxicity is more prevalent in alkaline soils

if ammonium is NH4NO3 and ammonia is NH3 and nitrate is NO3

what enters the plant?
by what mechanism?
at what point does ammonium nitrate separate into ammonia, nitrate, nitric acid and one of several alkali metalic nitrates

reason for this...when i brew PSG (peruvian seabird guano) the odor changes dependent upon how long its been brewing and at times there is such a strong ammonia smell that it really makes me question when to use it.

another chemistry question, on the charts above on post #90 in soil Ca and Mg are locked out below 6.4. What do they bond with and become?

 

[Natural]

ok so a few chemistry questions.?
given these facts...
ammonium toxicity is more prevalent in acidic soils
nitrate toxicity is more prevalent in alkaline soils

if ammonium is NH4NO3 and ammonia is NH3 and nitrate is NO3

what enters the plant?
by what mechanism?
at what point does ammonium nitrate separate into ammonia, nitrate, nitric acid and one of several alkali metalic nitrates

reason for this...when i brew PSG (peruvian seabird guano) the odor changes dependent upon how long its been brewing and at times there is such a strong ammonia smell that it really makes me question when to use it.

another chemistry question, on the charts above on post #90 in soil Ca and Mg are locked out below 6.4. What do they bond with and become?

Taken from wiki..
Plants can absorb nitrate or ammonium ions from the soil via their root hairs. If nitrate is absorbed, it is first reduced to nitrite ions and then ammonium ions for incorporation into amino acids, nucleic acids, and chlorophyll.[3] In plants that have a symbiotic relationship with rhizobia, some nitrogen is assimilated in the form of ammonium ions directly from the nodules. It is now known that there is a more complex cycling of amino acids between Rhizobiabacteroids and plants. The plant provides amino acids to the bacteroids so ammonia assimilation is not required and the bacteroids pass amino acids (with the newly fixed nitrogen) back to the plant, thus forming an interdependent relationship

Why your tea smells like ammonia is another question..usually a bad smell indicates that it has gone anaerobic..or bad. I would think anything past a couple of days of brewing would mean that certain species have dominated..making it less diverse. But any bad smell to your tea is not good..do not add this to your garden. Perhaps your pump isn't providing enough oxygen.

 

[Natural]

another chemistry question, on the charts above on post #90 in soil Ca and Mg are locked out below 6.4. What do they bond with and become?

That's actually misleading. Calcium and Magnesium are Base forming ions, they become less and less available dropping from PH of 7 to 4. As the soil drops in PH, they become insoluble. In a solution, I think you would call it precipitate. At very low PH, certain elements like Aluminum and Iron become toxic...that would otherwise be helpful. Calcium and Magnesium can affect Phosphorous when the PH becomes too high(for example 7.5)..Phosphorous ions react with Cal and Mag to form less soluble compounds.