Oganic Growing Issues On Two Runs! Please Help!!

[YaBuddy321]

Thanks man the only thing is I want to stay away from bottled nutes and try and create a living soil, but if this continues I will try the dr earth to a least get something decent.

Never mind I just looked up what you are talking about ya that would save some time.

 

[Seamaiden]

I see classic pH issues. My opinion is that your soil pH is shifting low and locking out potassium. This can come from overly wet soil as well.
Best of luck.
Peace

This. Classic pH problems. I really wish people would let go of this idea that pH in organics doesn't matter. It does. You're working with an incredibly small volume of soil in a pot, thus the resources the microbes and plants need in order to make these adjustments may only be available in small amounts or not available at all. Pay attention to pH, understand that while you can create a live soil it will never be complete or comparable to the earth, so that means you really do have to pay attention.

But, what you've shown in my opinion is 100% pH and unavailable P/K problems, as ShroomKing states.

 

[derkaderk]

Question for you @Seamaiden ....last year I would let my nutrient mix get down to the 5.5ph range and feed with no I'll effects(organic) but my run off would be in the 6.2 range, and I assume the medium would be around 6.7....my question is where do you think his/her ph issue stems from? I know that soil tester is pretty much garbage...so the soil could be way off from what it is reading. I'm just curious because this one seriously had me all over the map.

 

[YaBuddy321]

This. Classic pH problems. I really wish people would let go of this idea that pH in organics doesn't matter. It does. You're working with an incredibly small volume of soil in a pot, thus the resources the microbes and plants need in order to make these adjustments may only be available in small amounts or not available at all. Pay attention to pH, understand that while you can create a live soil it will never be complete or comparable to the earth, so that means you really do have to pay attention.

But, what you've shown in my opinion is 100% pH and unavailable P/K problems, as ShroomKing states.

Thanks bro, what should I do to correct the ph? Is there something I should be adding to the water or soil? Thanks again! I did add some dolomite to try and buffer.

 

[MrBelvedere]

Maybe get a soil test to see if the pH is way off, and you're actually know what's nutrient ratios are in your soil, rather than guessing. When you added the Dolomite to soil to fix the pH, maybe you added too much or too little?

Look like you are in pure soil, with only 1% perlite, that means they are prone to being too wet, and have poor aeration and drainage, so when you transplant.... transplant into something that's at least 30% chunky perlite, it's so much easier to fix problems when you have a good aeration and drainage.


Also, a bottle of inexpensive Earth Juice grow original will definitely not hurt living soil. It will only help. That way you're knowing for sure they're getting the nutrients they need rather than hoping. Good luck I'm sure they'll be fine :)

 

[YaBuddy321]

Maybe get a soil test to see if the pH is way off, and you're actually know what's nutrient ratios are in your soil, rather than guessing. When you added the Dolomite to soil to fix the pH, maybe you added too much or too little?

Look like you are in pure soil, with only 1% perlite, that means they are prone to being too wet, and have poor aeration and drainage, so when you transplant.... transplant into something that's at least 30% chunky perlite, it's so much easier to fix problems when you have a good aeration and drainage.


Also, a bottle of inexpensive Earth Juice grow original will definitely not hurt living soil. It will only help. That way you're knowing for sure they're getting the nutrients they need rather than hoping. Good luck I'm sure they'll be fine :)

Thank you sir I was already thinking of a soil test that's a good idea.

 

[ShroomKing]

Maybe get a soil test to see if the pH is way off, and you're actually know what's nutrient ratios are in your soil, rather than guessing. When you added the Dolomite to soil to fix the pH, maybe you added too much or too little?

Look like you are in pure soil, with only 1% perlite, that means they are prone to being too wet, and have poor aeration and drainage, so when you transplant.... transplant into something that's at least 30% chunky perlite, it's so much easier to fix problems when you have a good aeration and drainage.


Also, a bottle of inexpensive Earth Juice grow original will definitely not hurt living soil. It will only help. That way you're knowing for sure they're getting the nutrients they need rather than hoping. Good luck I'm sure they'll be fine :)

I totally agree with you about his needing to use a better aerated soil. It will help.

But Earth Juice will not help his problem.

It might even make it worse.

Earth Juice grow, a great product, is heavy in molasses. Molasses will only drop his soil pH lower , especially when lockout is already present.

It's obvious by the twisted and twisting leaves that pH is the issue. It's obvious by the pattern of necrosis on the leaves that a p/k deficiency is in effect. If you look at a pH/nutrient chart you will see that p/k locks out in low pH. Thus, pH must be raised to correct.

pH can be raised by flushing with higher pH water or adding a buffer to the soil. But, in this case , pH is "probably" off or low, due to overly wet soil.

Best case here is to let soil dry completely out.

Then water with plain RO water with a pH of about 7.

If it progresses worse even after this. Do a complete flush of the soil and reset.
Best of luck.
Peace

 

[YaBuddy321]

I totally agree with you about his needing to use a better aerated soil. It will help.

But Earth Juice will not help his problem.

It might even make it worse.

Earth Juice grow, a great product, is heavy in molasses. Molasses will only drop his soil pH lower , especially when lockout is already present.

It's obvious by the twisted and twisting leaves that pH is the issue. It's obvious by the pattern of necrosis on the leaves that a p/k deficiency is in effect. If you look at a pH/nutrient chart you will see that p/k locks out in low pH. Thus, pH must be raised to correct.

pH can be raised by flushing with higher pH water or adding a buffer to the soil. But, in this case , pH is "probably" off or low, due to overly wet soil.

Best case here is to let soil dry completely out.

Then water with plain RO water with a pH of about 7.

If it progresses worse even after this. Do a complete flush of the soil and reset.
Best of luck.
Peace

Thanks man I think you are right seems like ph but what threw it off? Dr earth should come around 7. Also how would you ph R/O water to keep it organic? Thanks again!
Also the soil you guys see is plain dr earth just to fill in. My mix is underneath I did add a small bag of perlite but will add more next time.

 

[Seamaiden]

RO water can easily be pushed up or down because of its super-low alkalinity. So to push it up a simple addition of baking soda would be quick and effective. To push it down then citric acid or vinegar (I prefer powdered citric acid).

Question for you @Seamaiden ....last year I would let my nutrient mix get down to the 5.5ph range and feed with no I'll effects(organic) but my run off would be in the 6.2 range, and I assume the medium would be around 6.7....my question is where do you think his/her ph issue stems from? I know that soil tester is pretty much garbage...so the soil could be way off from what it is reading. I'm just curious because this one seriously had me all over the map.

I can't really say what the poster's problem might stem from without knowing a whole lot more about the environment and other paramters. The number one thing I keep in mind through all of this is that I have to let each individual plant tell me what it likes, I cannot chase numbers. Especially if working with something like one of those cheap probe meters, they are indeed all over the place and can make things worse if you go by what it reports.

 

[YaBuddy321]

RO water can easily be pushed up or down because of its super-low alkalinity. So to push it up a simple addition of baking soda would be quick and effective. To push it down then citric acid or vinegar (I prefer powdered citric acid).

I can't really say what the poster's problem might stem from without knowing a whole lot more about the environment and other paramters. The number one thing I keep in mind through all of this is that I have to let each individual plant tell me what it likes, I cannot chase numbers. Especially if working with something like one of those cheap probe meters, they are indeed all over the place and can make things worse if you go by what it reports.

Ya I agree those meters are all over the place, I also check runoff.. I'm letting some dry up and take it from there and just watered some with 3 different methods. I'm going to test things and see what helps. After going through this the only thing I come back to is possible over watering, but wasn't the classic just dropping of leaves. Other than that I hope not, but maybe virus or bad bacteria. I dunno but will update soon. Thanks man

 

[Seamaiden]

Ya I agree those meters are all over the place, I also check runoff.. I'm letting some dry up and take it from there and just watered some with 3 different methods. I'm going to test things and see what helps. After going through this the only thing I come back to is possible over watering, but wasn't the classic just dropping of leaves. Other than that I hope not, but maybe virus or bad bacteria. I dunno but will update soon. Thanks man

There is absolutely nothing about those plants that says disease to me. Mostly pH.

 

[leadsled]

You state you started over with new soil. how long did you let the soil "compost" before planting in it?

Going off the additives you added to the soil. Could have easily double or triple dosed the nitrogen and magensium along with many other elements. Like shown in the mulder chartm too much of one element can make other unavailable.

dolomite balances towards mg. That can make more imbalance and tighten up the soil. Then you can be prone to pests and diseases.
Then you added epsom salt on top of dolomite.

If your soil does not have any exchangeable hydrogen. The plants can not mine the food from the soil. Biology can take time to get going.

Seems to be alot of food for small plants. In addition, You are growing under low wattage lights.

With the proper biology and balance of nutrients (cation/ anion) The ph will balance out and correct itself. Biology dictates chemistry. But if your way off with chemistry, then will take much longer for the biology to balance out the ph.

I agree with the statement about getting a soil test. Then you will have an some information on how to get a start on fixing things.

 

[jumpincactus]

Thanks man I think you are right seems like ph but what threw it off? Dr earth should come around 7. Also how would you ph R/O water to keep it organic? Thanks again!
Also the soil you guys see is plain dr earth just to fill in. My mix is underneath I did add a small bag of perlite but will add more next time.

If you want better aeration find some par boiled rice hulls. Not to mention rice hulls are cheap and way more sustainable than than perlite or vermiculite. Use at a 20% mix to volume of soil quantity. Rice hulls are all I use now. :cool:

I would have to agree with the overall consensus that what you have is a Ph issue.

 

[YaBuddy321]

You state you started over with new soil. how long did you let the soil "compost" before planting in it?

Going off the additives you added to the soil. Could have easily double or triple dosed the nitrogen and magensium along with many other elements. Like shown in the mulder chartm too much of one element can make other unavailable.

dolomite balances towards mg. That can make more imbalance and tighten up the soil. Then you can be prone to pests and diseases.
Then you added epsom salt on top of dolomite.

If your soil does not have any exchangeable hydrogen. The plants can not mine the food from the soil. Biology can take time to get going.

Seems to be alot of food for small plants. In addition, You are growing under low wattage lights.

With the proper biology and balance of nutrients (cation/ anion) The ph will balance out and correct itself. Biology dictates chemistry. But if your way off with chemistry, then will take much longer for the biology to balance out the ph.

I agree with the statement about getting a soil test. Then you will have an some information on how to get a start on fixing things.

Thanks man!

 

[YaBuddy321]

Thanks man!

I let the soil sit about a month.

 

[MrBelvedere]

Btw the new version of EJ has molasses, the Original one does not. Main Point is don't be scared to add more amendments or something in a bottle if you need it after you fix your main issues. :) good luck hope they are doing better :)

 

[Jimican]

I agree with DrFever. Im an organic guy and see no need to pay for what can make with a little effort. One thing I noticed is that nowhere did you mention having worms in your soil. I personally have been recycling my soil. Even leaving old root matter in it. The worms love to digest it into the poop everyone pays for. This is not the solution to your problem but food for thought.

 

[YaBuddy321]

Btw the new version of EJ has molasses, the Original one does not. Main Point is don't be scared to add more amendments or something in a bottle if you need it after you fix your main issues. :) good luck hope they are doing better :)

Update this having issues after switching to fox farm ocean forest. Burnt leaves, twisting , and slow growth. Please help!

 

[YaBuddy321]

You state you started over with new soil. how long did you let the soil "compost" before planting in it?

Going off the additives you added to the soil. Could have easily double or triple dosed the nitrogen and magensium along with many other elements. Like shown in the mulder chartm too much of one element can make other unavailable.

dolomite balances towards mg. That can make more imbalance and tighten up the soil. Then you can be prone to pests and diseases.
Then you added epsom salt on top of dolomite.

If your soil does not have any exchangeable hydrogen. The plants can not mine the food from the soil. Biology can take time to get going.

Seems to be alot of food for small plants. In addition, You are growing under low wattage lights.

With the proper biology and balance of nutrients (cation/ anion) The ph will balance out and correct itself. Biology dictates chemistry. But if your way off with chemistry, then will take much longer for the biology to balance out the ph.

I agree with the statement about getting a soil test. Then you will have an some information on how to get a start on fixing things.

Still having issues repotted in ocean forest with no addmendments.. Here is the soil test from the old soil and some pics. Thanks!

 

[YaBuddy321]

There is absolutely nothing about those plants that says disease to me. Mostly pH.

Hey do you think my issues could be VPD related? I see it can cause canoeing but I've also seen people grow with 10% RH. Mine is 30% to 40%. Just wondering thanks!