Post your Organic Soil Mix

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Dunge

Dunge

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Regarding the supersoil recipe I just posted.
I have been using this same mix for about three years.
I'm presently feeding a weekly aerated tea.
Into three gallons of water in a five gallon bucket I throw a hand full of ground alfalfa, small grab of granulated see weed, small grab of neem meal, small spoon of Capulators foliar or root microbial inoculation.
I give it one glug of high P fish fertilizer and a first dose of molasses.

Every day I give it a stir after adding some molasses and any water that has come from my worm bins.
If it is frothy I add a few drops of a more oily fish fertilizer which breaks the foam when stired in.
 
Redneckg33k

Redneckg33k

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You should also mention that that mix must be cooked for a minimum of 45 days, 65 plus would be best before use, very similar to super soil...but not lol, looks like a great recipe tho man, I do bet it performs very well
 
Redneckg33k

Redneckg33k

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What soil mix are you referring to? Mine? No there is not, but the ease of mine is no cook time
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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I guess I am asking if ANYBODY has soil tests. Other than just listing ingredients and posting it works for them? I keep saying it, but this thread is lacking science.
I got some soil tests done.

Do you know the weight of your soil mix and/or the amounts of inputs used?

I don't know why more people do not test???


MAybe the lack of understanding of how to test?
How to interpet the test results, and then how to do the math to amend the soil???
Best $25-30 spent imho.

Anyone want the directions of the how what where why when?


Here are a few tests of bagged soils.
FYI: for those who want to understand the math
The phosphorus number on the test is -P205 per acre and not yet converted to P.
Test below shows 681 lbs per acre of phorphorus.
681 is the p205 per acre.
681 x 0.435 = 296.235 lbs per acre P
Vermi Fire bagged Soil:
Vermifire





Empire Builder by Sanctuary Soil:
(Please note: This test was done in ppm. )
227 ppm P which is 452lbs per acre P
P205 is 1039.6 pounds per acre in empire builder.
TO convert the rest of the numbers to compare to vermifire.
ppm x 2 = pounds per acre.

Empire builder in lbs per acre:
Sulfur: 442lbs per acre
Phosphorus: 452lbs per acre
Calcium: 3532 lbs per acre
Magnesium: 670lbs per acre
Potassium: 1182 lbs per acre
Sodium: 334lbs per acre.

Empire builder


Hope that is helpful and educational to someone.
With all due respect.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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Both of those soils are just ok huh? Vermifire being clearly better. Glad I never went with sanctuary soil.

I'll post up some fresh results for fun.
 
Coots
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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Both of those soils are just ok huh? Vermifire being clearly better. Glad I never went with sanctuary soil.

I'll post up some fresh results for fun.
That is what happens when someone does not want to test the soil or amending or mixing your own. Neither are as good as what someone can mix on there own. Or take a base mix and amend it.

That is why you take a sample and test it before buying the soil.

Gotta think about the home the biology needs. Excessive P is not ideal home for the fungi to perform.

Fresh results? That looks like the test from 8 months ago and the tcec is cut off?
Clackamascoots Soil Mix From Rare Earth In Grass Valley


If you wanna post up the newest test can compare before and after growing in that mix?
I noticed my p level drops after each run and the OM% increases.

Hope the soil performs well for you on the next run.

Here is the latest test from rare earth. Dated 2/5/2015.
dbf08bc46f4c4be823ce19e6592c2751


Hope all is growing well.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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I am kinda surprised that no one double checked the math on the build a soil mix or the rare earth mix.

Most people do not test there soil.

To make things worse if someone finally tests there soil they do not test for nitrogen.
See the above tests no nitrogen levels.

If I pay a professional I expect them to do the job right. This is a good reminder for me. DO not trust anyone and double check others work.
People make mistakes and best to correct them.


Do not use 1/2 cup per cubic foot of neem seed meal!!!

neem seed meal is 6-1-2
1/2 cup of neem seed meal weights 4oz.
1 cubic foot is 7.48 gallons of soil
1 acre foot is equal to 43559.9 cubic feet
4 oz x 43559.9 cu ft = 174236 oz.
174236 oz = 10889.75 lbs.
That rate converted to 1 acre is 10,889.75 lbs neem cake.
6% of 10,890 is how actual N is calculated.
That is 653 lbs of N per acre just from neem cake.

Most crops require 1-200 lbs of n per acre.


Add in the N from other inputs and you soil mix will overdose your plants with nitrogen!

There will also be excessive P once you add in crab meal at 1/2 cup per cubic foot.

IF anyone need help on the math to make a organic soil mix lease ask. Seems like growers know how to do the math for making a custom nutrient profile. Do not see much sharing on calculating inputs for organic soil.

Hope all is growing well!
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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263
I have noticed this as well @leadsled. Do you think the recipe is a secret from Grass Valley, because when I tested the soil it came out perfect IMO. I have been trying to recreate the mix myself, but the tests come out way off.

I have been considering another route for my 40 yards needed this season. I was thinking of just ordering 40 yards of 33% pumice, 33% peat, 15% ewc and 18% diesel compost. Getting that tested at Logan Labs, then send those over to Michael Astera and have him send me what I need. I am tired of crappy soil, I want a Ferrari.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
I have noticed this as well @leadsled. Do you think the recipe is a secret from Grass Valley, because when I tested the soil it came out perfect IMO. I have been trying to recreate the mix myself, but the tests come out way off.

I have been considering another route for my 40 yards needed this season. I was thinking of just ordering 40 yards of 33% pumice, 33% peat, 15% ewc and 18% diesel compost. Getting that tested at Logan Labs, then send those over to Michael Astera and have him send me what I need. I am tired of crappy soil, I want a Ferrari.

No secret. People are not perfect so need to double check the work. Even if you hire a soil analyst.

I can help you and I will balance your soil and also take into consideration the biology. And the N and P levels.

I am happy to double check the work for you! two heads are better than one. Be Agile!


Most important thing to do is weight the soil.
1. mix base. 2. test it. 3. amend and add aeration.


I would add the sulfates as well then will get it more dialed than rock dust alone. Or add the rock dust then calculate what else is needed. amend and retest.
16.5% compost needs to be low in K!
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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ok, I'll bite. How do you keep the CEC levels high, along with the organic matter, if you take out compost? Are you saying pay for extra EWC? Or do you have something else that will be a substitute?

I would love your help with my soil next year. Should we do this through PM's? People could learn a thing or two if we make our own thread, or continue in this one?
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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263
ok, I'll bite. How do you keep the CEC levels high, along with the organic matter, if you take out compost? Are you saying pay for extra EWC? Or do you have something else that will be a substitute?

I would love your help with my soil next year. Should we do this through PM's? People could learn a thing or two if we make our own thread, or continue in this one?
Good question! Excellent observation.
Use a compost that is low in K. or no compost and use solely ewc. You are correct reducing the compost and solely using ewc will reduce the tcec.
Have seen a test come out at 10-17 cec without compost vs 21-30 cec with compost.

Fungal compost with low K at 16.5% and ewc 16.5% has put me right at 5% K with 21 tcec.
Another option if you can get it add quality topsoil at 10-15% to increase the CEC.


I am testing adding clay to a soil less mix to increase tcec. Real soil is sand silt and clay vs soil less being peat and then the rock dust/aeration adds some sand content.

Yes feel free to pm.
Will help to prevent any confusion while working out details/problems and also makes sure the instructions are clear

Also keep in mind NOT all inputs are not equal. details matter.
DTE neem cake vs ahimsa neem cake for one example.


Some debate over lighter soil and more volume or a bigger battery (higher cec).

I find a majority of growers only cover the chemical aspect (if even that) and are missing the big picture of the entire system.

Take this into consideration: the geological, the chemical, the biochemical and the biological performances by which the numerous streams of life take off from the soil and continue to flow.
We can test for a baseline for many of these variables.

Then monitor how things are progressing. Do not assume but actually monitor the entire system.

Soil biology, texture, c02 respiration, weak acid all will provide more data about what is happening in the soil. Melich 3 is a good start to see the savings account and get away from "growing blind". But there is more testing and tools available.

Just because it is in the soil does not mean the mineral is available to the plant and/or the biology is working to get minerals into the plant.

 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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I'll make a full admission that the math puts me off of trying to work *any* numbers. I really am bad at it, period.

But at this particular juncture in time, since I'm not even sure we're going to be at this property in 6mos, I'm not going to concern myself with soil.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
I'll make a full admission that the math puts me off of trying to work *any* numbers. I really am bad at it, period.

But at this particular juncture in time, since I'm not even sure we're going to be at this property in 6mos, I'm not going to concern myself with soil.
It is very easy to make a mistake on math. Even using computers!
Thanks for sharing reminds me of an error I made.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
Warning to all if doing a conversion from yards to acres or vice versa.

Double check your math. Make sure you are converting a cubic measurement to another cubic measurement.

Here is an potential error I found in converting yards to acres.

Look at converting yards to acres

Acre acre foot


If I use the values on the left using yards my calculations will be incorrect.
But if I convert ac-foot to yards using the right table will be correct.



Source:
http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs142p2_022760.pdf
to convert cubic feet to gallons.
cubic feet x 7.48=gallons
acre-foot is 43,560 cubic feet
acre-foot = 1613.3 cubic yards
acre-foot is 325,848 gallons
1 acre foot weights 4,000,000 lbs
1 square yard = 9 square feet
Acre-furrow-slice = one acre to a depth of 6 2/3 inches. +/- 2,000,000 lbs of soil.
Acre-foot = one acre to a depth of 12 inches. 4,000,000 lbs of soil.

Ok so if you calculated the above and made a mistake. Then make your soil using cups. You could end up even messing up a recipe even more.
Gotta account for the weight to be accurate.

Weight Vs Volume
Measuring cups is surprisingly inaccurate. Cups that should be the same volume often vary a lot depending on the material used. Worse, a lot of inaccuracy creeps into a recipe depending on what is being measured and who is doing the measurement. In my experience, the same recipe scaled multiple times can vary by as much as 10 % relative to the true weight of the ingredients. This is often the reason that people find that a particular recipe "fails" when they try to reproduce it—inaccuracies have crept in at every step. Working by weight is both faster and more accurate.


 
GrowingGreen

GrowingGreen

2,441
263
2yds of nursery grade soil
24 bag of soil / FFOF-ROOTS ORGANIC - COCO
50lbs of roots organic worm castings
20lbs bat guano
25lbs of fish bone meal, azimite, kelp meal, oyster shell, blood meal
2 lbs epson salt
8oz of root magic (BPN) microhaizae
Some bio-ag humic acid
Heres my mix , no test yet gonna let it breakdown some, then get some testing down
 
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Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

337
63
here is my mix this year per cubic foot. i also have liquid karama,roots trinity and extreme serene. i will be using bioag humic & silica powder,ful-power and down to earth humic acid granular in my soil at 1 cup per C.F. i got Sea-90 to use every 10 days on the advice of Sea-madien as well thanks SM =). i will do some top dressings as need with bat guano,dr earth vega and down to earth vegan mix.

33% Coast of maine bar harbor potting mix
33% Perlite
33% coast of maine lobster Compost/ worm power Ewc & supr green composted chicken manure

Nutrient amendments:
1cup of kelp meal
1 cup of stonington blend coast of maine plant food
1 cup of insect frass
1/2 cup neem meal
1/2 cup seabird guano


Mineral amendments:
2 cup basalt rock dust
1 cup oyster shell flour
1 cup gypsum
1 cup greensand
1/2 cup of Elemite
1/2 cup azomite
 
Lobster compost
Supplies
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
here is my mix this year per cubic foot. i also have liquid karama,roots trinity and extreme serene. i will be using bioag humic & silica powder,ful-power and down to earth humic acid granular in my soil at 1 cup per C.F. i got Sea-90 to use every 10 days on the advice of Sea-madien as well thanks SM =). i will do some top dressings as need with bat guano,dr earth vega and down to earth vegan mix.

33% Coast of maine bar harbor potting mix
33% Perlite
33% coast of maine lobster Compost/ worm power Ewc & supr green composted chicken manure

Nutrient amendments:
1cup of kelp meal
1 cup of stonington blend coast of maine plant food
1 cup of insect frass
1/2 cup neem meal
1/2 cup seabird guano


Mineral amendments:
2 cup basalt rock dust
1 cup oyster shell flour
1 cup gypsum
1 cup greensand
1/2 cup of Elemite
1/2 cup azomite
If you do some math on SOME of those inputs they are pretty excessive.

Excessive N with the neem cake, guano will put the P levels WAY up there and the greensand will add excess K.
Odds are there is plenty in the compost and other amendments.


1/2 cup per cubic foot of neem cake = NPK per acre.:
653.385 lbs N per acre.
108.89 lbs P per acre.
217.7 lbs K per acre


Adding the guano at that rate 1/2lb per cubic foot will add
5989.3625 lbs of phosphorus per acre ( P205) = 2635 lbs of P

Some soil analysis recommends up to 600lbs per acre of P.

That is without calculating the inputs from all your other amendments. Which are excessive.
Then add some top dressings to put you way over the top and create more imbalance.

Not getting into sodium and probably a lack of trace minerals.

Better to put on less than to put "more-on". Can always add more, but not as easy to take away.

Nutrient deficiencies and/or nutrient excesses cause pest / disease problems by themselves.

 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
2yds of nursery grade soil
24 bag of soil / FFOF-ROOTS ORGANIC - COCO
50lbs of roots organic worm castings
20lbs bat guano
25lbs of fish bone meal, azimite, kelp meal, oyster shell, blood meal
2 lbs epson salt
8oz of root magic (BPN) microhaizae
Some bio-ag humic acid
Heres my mix , no test yet gonna let it breakdown some, then get some testing down
Please do post up the test IF you get one.
 

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