Council Of First Knowledge, Jedi Temple Training Facility

[EventHorizan]

Really 500ppm that small? I was off . That would roast one of my babies. I didn't realize you could go so much higher in co co

me either, and I am still so hesitant. I know this, a good farmer doesn't just grow a pot plant. He learns the plant, he hears the plant, and he responds to the plant. He knows just what he can tweak... He knows HIS strains. I am gonna love this shit! When I have clones, that I can play with, i am gonna feed them diff amounts, and see how early I can introduce nutes, to build up tolerance, and how quick I can get them to full strength nutes, or at least to the point that they can uptake nutes and a optimum level. I don't know who it was, but someone recommended on a thread, to research root builder, and so my last couple days has been spent learning more about roots and that first 4"... And You can see the foundation that you need to build. Right now I have took my 3rd auto which I stunted and don't post pics of, I revived somewhat and transplanted into a plastic mountain dew bottle with the top cut off, and a rag zip tied on so that I can watch the root growth from dad to day so I know whats going on underneath my others. Its has been insightful !

 

[EventHorizan]

So in co co do you end up at 2.5-3.0 ec? Are the nnutes just not as available in coco. I just want to understand how I was off so much.I hate giving bad info

It seems extreme to me to. Also I need to take those numbers and cut them back anyway cause there autos and everything I have read says give Autos Half strength nutes...

 

[Wisher619]

I usually start out @ 1.0 ec then work up to 1.5 ec in veg and then peak flower I would be running around 1.8ec then taper back down to 1.0 before my 3 day flush before harvest.....just the way I do it.......my water is RO so 0 ppm to start
I have known some people that used tap water and ended with like 3.0 ec and were fine.......
but just a waste of nutes and money
the goal is to run the lighest amount of nutes that will still sustain your plant
also....I believe people make the mistake in coco that you water when the media starts to dry a little......it is not soil!!!!!
water every day...up to 3x a day when larger plants......
what coco does is hold onto nutrients
when you let the media start to dry out....the coco releases the nutes it holds and that causes the media to spike in ppm as well as ph.....then things get super out of whack
the remedy......push the amount of ppm through the media enough to drain 10% runoff at least every day.....
remember....roots need oxygen....but coco is very desceptive in the fact that you may think the coco is saturated and the roots will drown but .....quite the contrary as well...every time you water you add oxygen

and yes this applies to seedlings as well
no differ.....seedlings should be subject to same root enviroment as the more mature plants.....if you are in fabric pots....you will need to water eventually....probably more then 3 times a day.....because of the fact that the fabric allows so much air that the media will dry much quicker as the roots fill the pot

 

[Wisher619]

@Midwestjay
you werent off by much....the difference is in coco you need to keep the ph and ec constant....and because coco holds onto nutes....I believe that when you water the available nutes are a little lower then what goes in...something to do with cation exchange.....but when the media dries it releases the nutes and trouble begins
there are those like Vader on youtube that Flood and Drains with coco and you will see that he maxes @ about 1.3 ec....but I believe he floods 3x a day so the coco will remain there and never really dry out
I run the same concept but I max a little higher and push my plants sometimes to slight tip discoloration
I think of coco this way
as long as it is moist the moisture keeps the proper ec on the roots and outside of that zone the ec is much higher....when that moisture barrier breaks ....super high ec spikes the root zone that the water used to protect it from....that can also create ph fluxuation which can lead to lockout which will cause all kinds of deficiencies
once you get coco figured out it is easy breezy....just cruise control all the way to the finish line

 

[EventHorizan]

@Midwestjay
you werent off by much....the difference is in coco you need to keep the ph and ec constant....and because coco holds onto nutes....I believe that when you water the available nutes are a little lower then what goes in...something to do with cation exchange.....but when the media dries it releases the nutes and trouble begins
there are those like Vader on youtube that Flood and Drains with coco and you will see that he maxes @ about 1.3 ec....but I believe he floods 3x a day so the coco will remain there and never really dry out
I run the same concept but I max a little higher and push my plants sometimes to slight tip discoloration
I think of coco this way
as long as it is moist the moisture keeps the proper ec on the roots and outside of that zone the ec is much higher....when that moisture barrier breaks ....super high ec spikes the root zone that the water used to protect it from....that can also create ph fluxuation which can lead to lockout which will cause all kinds of deficiencies
once you get coco figured out it is easy breezy....just cruise control all the way to the finish line

Trying to understand here. Won't watering everyday inhibit root growth since it never dries up, and they never have to search out water?

 

[EventHorizan]

I usually start out @ 1.0 ec then work up to 1.5 ec in veg and then peak flower I would be running around 1.8ec then taper back down to 1.0 before my 3 day flush before harvest.....just the way I do it.......my water is RO so 0 ppm to start
I have known some people that used tap water and ended with like 3.0 ec and were fine.......
but just a waste of nutes and money
the goal is to run the lighest amount of nutes that will still sustain your plant
also....I believe people make the mistake in coco that you water when the media starts to dry a little......it is not soil!!!!!
water every day...up to 3x a day when larger plants......
what coco does is hold onto nutrients
when you let the media start to dry out....the coco releases the nutes it holds and that causes the media to spike in ppm as well as ph.....then things get super out of whack
the remedy......push the amount of ppm through the media enough to drain 10% runoff at least every day.....
remember....roots need oxygen....but coco is very desceptive in the fact that you may think the coco is saturated and the roots will drown but .....quite the contrary as well...every time you water you add oxygen

and yes this applies to seedlings as well
no differ.....seedlings should be subject to same root enviroment as the more mature plants.....if you are in fabric pots....you will need to water eventually....probably more then 3 times a day.....because of the fact that the fabric allows so much air that the media will dry much quicker as the roots fill the pot

Ok Wisher, I was watering everyday and they seemed slow to respond. Then someone said, hey bro, its pure coco, so treat it like soil and let it dry out. So I did, and they have looked pretty good since then. BUT!!!!!! I have a theory why my plants didn't get tip burn, and it has to do with what you just said. I think that my high ppm dried out in the coco and if I was to water again with same ppm fluid it would double the ppm from what is still suspended in the coco.
I see that my plants look fine right now, but if I continue this way, I will build up salts in the coco and cause nute lockout. So I need to make up 6 gallon of nutes( there is only about 2 gallons of coco in the 3 gallon fabric)and just poor it thru the coco. Damn thats 12 gallons total for both plants. 12 more dollars.

If I make up a gallon of nutes, can i use that over 3 days, or do they have to be used immediately? I am gonna end up buying krogers out of distilled water. I need free water! lol... Will running an air stone thru them for awhile before hand help anything ? And refrigerating the nutes or the water I use to mix the nutes help anything?.

I am gonna follow your advice, you better send me clones if they die!!! LOL.....

 

[Wisher619]

here is the deal
anyone who tells anyone to treat coco like soil is very incorrect
it is literally an hydroponic media....the tomato hydro indoor super greenhouse farm bu my house uses coco and runs water through it all day literally
coco only holds the roots
now with the nutes....through the ion exchange....when salts are introduced to coco ...coco releases certain ions for others (nutes/salts).....if you let it dry....the coco releases everything at once....you cant double the nutes in coco unless you arent watering until runoff....in which case you are correct....you are building up a potential disaster....as the plant uses certain salts....others remain and build up in the media....when you water to runoff....the runoff pushes the excess salts out in exchange for fresh....
in actual soil there is a food web to break down and dispose of certain elements as well as turn waste into food....with hydro that really isnt happening on the scale that soil is
there are guys out there that do run coco with out runoff but they also use an enzyme to break down shit in the coco
I believe they also do a full flush evey couple of weeks
I never flush but I also run a Drain to Waste system so I always have about 10% runnoff....
with the no runoff guys....those dudes usually have been growing for years with it and have everything dialed in...
the easiest way to run coco is a drain to waste system
on youtube there are a few super good growers like Vader who runs a flood and drain coco system....I highly incurage you to watch his videos specifically his canna apocalypse series which is literally a step by step from day 1 to harvest with a F/D system coco.....he also is one of the really highly prized seed breeders Ocean Grown
I myself only mess with stateside genetics...there are alot of US based seedbanks you can get seeds from
you just really wont find to many autos and fems...

 

[EventHorizan]

here is the deal
anyone who tells anyone to treat coco like soil is very incorrect
it is literally an hydroponic media....the tomato hydro indoor super greenhouse farm bu my house uses coco and runs water through it all day literally
coco only holds the roots
now with the nutes....through the ion exchange....when salts are introduced to coco ...coco releases certain ions for others (nutes/salts).....if you let it dry....the coco releases everything at once....you cant double the nutes in coco unless you arent watering until runoff....in which case you are correct....you are building up a potential disaster....as the plant uses certain salts....others remain and build up in the media....when you water to runoff....the runoff pushes the excess salts out in exchange for fresh....
in actual soil there is a food web to break down and dispose of certain elements as well as turn waste into food....with hydro that really isnt happening on the scale that soil is
there are guys out there that do run coco with out runoff but they also use an enzyme to break down shit in the coco
I believe they also do a full flush evey couple of weeks
I never flush but I also run a Drain to Waste system so I always have about 10% runnoff....
with the no runoff guys....those dudes usually have been growing for years with it and have everything dialed in...
the easiest way to run coco is a drain to waste system
on youtube there are a few super good growers like Vader who runs a flood and drain coco system....I highly incurage you to watch his videos specifically his canna apocalypse series which is literally a step by step from day 1 to harvest with a F/D system coco.....he also is one of the really highly prized seed breeders Ocean Grown
I myself only mess with stateside genetics...there are alot of US based seedbanks you can get seeds from
you just really wont find to many autos and fems...

I appreciate this. That was really in-depth, and I completely comprehended it. I will go check out them videos.

 

[EventHorizan]

here is the deal
anyone who tells anyone to treat coco like soil is very incorrect
it is literally an hydroponic media....the tomato hydro indoor super greenhouse farm bu my house uses coco and runs water through it all day literally
coco only holds the roots
now with the nutes....through the ion exchange....when salts are introduced to coco ...coco releases certain ions for others (nutes/salts).....if you let it dry....the coco releases everything at once....you cant double the nutes in coco unless you arent watering until runoff....in which case you are correct....you are building up a potential disaster....as the plant uses certain salts....others remain and build up in the media....when you water to runoff....the runoff pushes the excess salts out in exchange for fresh....
in actual soil there is a food web to break down and dispose of certain elements as well as turn waste into food....with hydro that really isnt happening on the scale that soil is
there are guys out there that do run coco with out runoff but they also use an enzyme to break down shit in the coco
I believe they also do a full flush evey couple of weeks
I never flush but I also run a Drain to Waste system so I always have about 10% runnoff....
with the no runoff guys....those dudes usually have been growing for years with it and have everything dialed in...
the easiest way to run coco is a drain to waste system
on youtube there are a few super good growers like Vader who runs a flood and drain coco system....I highly incurage you to watch his videos specifically his canna apocalypse series which is literally a step by step from day 1 to harvest with a F/D system coco.....he also is one of the really highly prized seed breeders Ocean Grown
I myself only mess with stateside genetics...there are alot of US based seedbanks you can get seeds from
you just really wont find to many autos and fems..

I like these 2 strains.

 

[EventHorizan]

here is the deal
anyone who tells anyone to treat coco like soil is very incorrect
it is literally an hydroponic media....the tomato hydro indoor super greenhouse farm bu my house uses coco and runs water through it all day literally
coco only holds the roots
now with the nutes....through the ion exchange....when salts are introduced to coco ...coco releases certain ions for others (nutes/salts).....if you let it dry....the coco releases everything at once....you cant double the nutes in coco unless you arent watering until runoff....in which case you are correct....you are building up a potential disaster....as the plant uses certain salts....others remain and build up in the media....when you water to runoff....the runoff pushes the excess salts out in exchange for fresh....
in actual soil there is a food web to break down and dispose of certain elements as well as turn waste into food....with hydro that really isnt happening on the scale that soil is
there are guys out there that do run coco with out runoff but they also use an enzyme to break down shit in the coco
I believe they also do a full flush evey couple of weeks
I never flush but I also run a Drain to Waste system so I always have about 10% runnoff....
with the no runoff guys....those dudes usually have been growing for years with it and have everything dialed in...
the easiest way to run coco is a drain to waste system
on youtube there are a few super good growers like Vader who runs a flood and drain coco system....I highly incurage you to watch his videos specifically his canna apocalypse series which is literally a step by step from day 1 to harvest with a F/D system coco.....he also is one of the really highly prized seed breeders Ocean Grown
I myself only mess with stateside genetics...there are alot of US based seedbanks you can get seeds from
you just really wont find to many autos and fems...

I like these 2 strains.

 

[Wisher619]

this is where I purchase my seeds...

although the farm also has great seeds frm American breeders

 

[EventHorizan]

Well I ran 2 gallon thru one plant with a PH 5.9,, 400 ppm of 2ml calmag, 3 ml GH 3part to each gallon. I left out the rootbuilder and the superthrive. Very last 4 ounces of runoff tested at 5.5 and 340ppm. If all looks great tomorrow night, then I will do the other one.

 

[Wisher619]

dont check runoff...it will make you go crazy...will never be accurate....will always come out crazy....
just always make sure what goes in is good.....and when ever you water...runoff of 10%
on the bag of cana coco it actually tell you
when 50% of of media is dry...water to 10% runoff
I would say right now I would water your plants every other day to 10% runoff...taking into account the size of the pot compared to the plant...I never run autos...so I start in solo cups and grow to 6 nodes..cut to 3 nodes and clone the top...transplant to 5"x5"x5" pots and veg for 2 more weeks then to flower
in solo cups even seedlings I water once a day...but you pots are much bigger

 

[Wisher619]

Well I ran 2 gallon thru one plant with a PH 5.9,, 400 ppm of 2ml calmag, 3 ml GH 3part to each gallon. I left out the rootbuilder and the superthrive. Very last 4 ounces of runoff tested at 5.5 and 340ppm. If all looks great tomorrow night, then I will do the other one.

that 80 ppm drop is the coco grabbing Ca and N in exchange for a slight release of P and as P has a lower ph it drops the ph of the runoff

 

[EventHorizan]

this is where I purchase my seeds...

although the farm also has great seeds frm American breeders

I want the Apollo 13!

 

[EventHorizan]

that 80 ppm drop is the coco grabbing Ca and N in exchange for a slight release of P and as P has a lower ph it drops the ph of the runoff

lol I will have to think about that tomm. I got a lot to learn! Thanks for the advice! I let you know how it went tomm.

 

[EventHorizan]

dont check runoff...it will make you go crazy...will never be accurate....will always come out crazy....
just always make sure what goes in is good.....and when ever you water...runoff of 10%
on the bag of cana coco it actually tell you
when 50% of of media is dry...water to 10% runoff
I would say right now I would water your plants every other day to 10% runoff...taking into account the size of the pot compared to the plant...I never run autos...so I start in solo cups and grow to 6 nodes..cut to 3 nodes and clone the top...transplant to 5"x5"x5" pots and veg for 2 more weeks then to flower
in solo cups even seedlings I water once a day...but you pots are much bigger

We will come back to this tomm. I got work early, but I am ready to listen and learn.

 

[Wisher619]

I want the Apollo 13!

I really like Dynasty and La Plata genetics
but Grimm is famous and some potent genes

 

[EventHorizan]

Just a few pics from this morning. Looks as if she handled her feeding. Might have a little clawing going on. Seems like the top leaves are curled up a little bit. Since I am just learning, I am not for sure how normal this is.

 

[EventHorizan]

So I did a little experimenting. .. I took the 2 lil plants I have. A 7 day old photo delicious candy in solo cup, with coco, and a 1' layer of hydroten underneath it with about 4 holes for drainage. The Mt Dew bottle is set up the same way with a very stunted auto. But instead of killing him off, I am gonna learn from him, with his short life cycle. Anyway I took both of them and stuck them in some Tupperware, with an air stone, ph 5.8 and 85 ppm. Covered it all up with wash clothes that stop the light but allow air flow. Is this stupid, or is it a simple little hydro set up that I can watch water level and ppm fluctuation, to position myself to use this single Power grower rdwc unit I have.