Gypsum Anyone?

[Homesteader]

I have been increasingly interested in 300 bushel corn and what dynamics of that soil will give up that yield. 400 bushel even. These agphd guys are a valuable source IMO.

 

[Ecompost]

I have been increasingly interested in 300 bushel corn and what dynamics of that soil will give up that yield. 400 bushel even. These agphd guys are a valuable source IMO.

yes, they focus on yield thats for sure

 

[Homesteader]

There take on K (From the corn side). They talk about Francis Childs who was the first in the US to grow 400 bushel.

 

[Ecompost]

There take on K (From the corn side). They talk about Francis Childs who was the first in the US to grow 400 bushel.

to be fair his fields look great, i suspect a lot of money and a lot of work went in to that

 

[Ecompost]

There take on K (From the corn side). They talk about Francis Childs who was the first in the US to grow 400 bushel.

Plant nutrition depends on the activity of membrane transporters that translocate minerals from the soil into the plant and mediate their intra- and intercellular distribution. The genome of Arabidopsis thaliana appears to encode >800 membrane transport proteins, 65% of which are secondary active transporters. Classification of these co-transporters has been based on both phylogeny and their known or predicted functions as transporters for cations, anions, and organic compounds, including sugars and amino acids (Saier, 2000). In plants, most co-transporters are energized by the proton electrochemical gradient generated by primary proton pumps working in all cell membranes, but alternative couplings also exist. Multigene families, whose members often exhibit overlapping expression patterns and a high degree of sequence homology, encode most types of plant membrane transporters. Furthermore, more than one transporter family transports many inorganic nutrients. Their extensive array of membrane transporters may provide plants with flexible strategies to cope with fluctuations in their environment and to minimize the adverse effects of nutrient deficiency and an excess of toxic ions.

 

[Seamaiden]

@Ecompost -- VERY helpful and exactly what I was after, thank you! I hadn't even considered the fact that S is antifungal. Whoa. Great point.

Calphos won't move your pH, nor will it work well if it is not applied to an acid soil or well worked into worm castings, etc.... even then, it will be super slow and cannot be depended on for an annual crop such as yours.

Gypsum is for an alkaline or neutral pH soil/media. It is a calcium and sulfur source. there is no phosphorus in gypsum.

What is your pH and what are you growing in? Regardless, if you really want to dial it in, send in a soil sample....

At the moment, nothing. We've moved to the Mojave desert and the pest (and WIND! OMG the wind out here can be insane) pressures are extreme. They even munch down cactus if it's green. But, when I get my greenhouse it's going to be aquaponics, so water samples only. I was hoping to add this idea to the whole mix concerning forms of Ca, especially when considering the adverse effects of excess CO3 and/or S.

I use a product called CaFeMg to manage Ca and Fe in my AP system and it has worked *very* well. It's from Sensational Solutions and I can't recall whether or not it's derived from SRT. I imagine that I'll need to take greater steps to manage these minerals in our new location as the water is amazingly clean when compared to the well water I was working with.

 

[Homesteader]

@Ecompost
Extra Calcium helps uptake extra K

 

[Seamaiden]

Quick question comes to my head while watching this video; In ag, when the word 'lime' is used, my own understanding was that the same thing may not always be what's being referenced, EG, ag lime versus quick lime (?). I'd like better clarity for everyone reading this thread, what type of lime do you think of here? In the meantime, I found this paper.
http://corn.agronomy.wisc.edu/Management/pdfs/a3671.pdf

Whoa, comparison of root tips @4:40!! Sufficient Ca can bind with available P before Al does, too. Damn!!

The discussion of herbicides makes me want to cry. As does the discussion regarding tilth and how to properly achieve it. Are any of you familiar with Ray Archuleta (I love that surname, chuletas are pork chops in Spanish)(Chuleta!)?

We know there are better ways to achieve soil tilth than the implement methods being mentioned in the previous video. Mr Archuleta discusses methods I think we'd agree are more in line with what we prefer. He doesn't seem to have his own channel that I can subscribe to on YT, gotta look harder.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ray+archuleta

 

[Ecompost]

@Ecompost -- VERY helpful and exactly what I was after, thank you! I hadn't even considered the fact that S is antifungal. Whoa. Great point.

At the moment, nothing. We've moved to the Mojave desert and the pest (and WIND! OMG the wind out here can be insane) pressures are extreme. They even munch down cactus if it's green. But, when I get my greenhouse it's going to be aquaponics, so water samples only. I was hoping to add this idea to the whole mix concerning forms of Ca, especially when considering the adverse effects of excess CO3 and/or S.

I use a product called CaFeMg to manage Ca and Fe in my AP system and it has worked *very* well. It's from Sensational Solutions and I can't recall whether or not it's derived from SRT. I imagine that I'll need to take greater steps to manage these minerals in our new location as the water is amazingly clean when compared to the well water I was working with.

wow good luck you, this sounds like a brave move, I am sure you will have it zipping along in time regardless of the challenges. Keeps your mind in good shape I reckon to embark on such adventure :-)

 

[Ecompost]

@Ecompost
Extra Calcium helps uptake extra K

yes this is the same in humans I understand, hence why a vit D and K sup seems to make sense.
I have an amino acid chelate I use which has a combination of N, K, Ca and Cu.
I also run a higher than average Si content I suspect, this I am convinced helps my plant maintain access to Proteins like N, P and S. I make my own SiOH4- to which I have added a bunch of bacterially activated/ amino acid chelated TE. The bottom link is the closet thing I could find to the stuff i make sold in the USA.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...production_and_quality_of_triploid_watermelon

http://osa28.com/

 

[Ecompost]

Quick question comes to my head while watching this video; In ag, when the word 'lime' is used, my own understanding was that the same thing may not always be what's being referenced, EG, ag lime versus quick lime (?). I'd like better clarity for everyone reading this thread, what type of lime do you think of here? In the meantime, I found this paper.
http://corn.agronomy.wisc.edu/Management/pdfs/a3671.pdf

Whoa, comparison of root tips @4:40!! Sufficient Ca can bind with available P before Al does, too. Damn!!

The discussion of herbicides makes me want to cry. As does the discussion regarding tilth and how to properly achieve it. Are any of you familiar with Ray Archuleta (I love that surname, chuletas are pork chops in Spanish)(Chuleta!)?

We know there are better ways to achieve soil tilth than the implement methods being mentioned in the previous video. Mr Archuleta discusses methods I think we'd agree are more in line with what we prefer. He doesn't seem to have his own channel that I can subscribe to on YT, gotta look harder.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ray+archuleta

loves me some Ray, he is a proper dude

 

[Ecompost]

more on why I use monosilicic acid, something you certainly wont have via your mycos if you have used Sulfur or SuperP in high numbers. But if you grow with fungus, they help to fix silicon in to monosilicic acid for uptake by our plants. In the future, everyone will go, hey eco, shit you said something about this like years ago..... LOL jk:-)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27213242



https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2015/396010/

 

[Homesteader]

@Seamaiden This describes in a better way, why they recommend lime regardless of pH if cal sat is below 60%

 

[Homesteader]

So the gypsum breaks apart and the sulfur attaches to magnesium making epsom salt but freeing up the calcium in the meantime. Like @Slownickel said magnesium is given to the plant via foliar for the best uptake. I hope I am not hacking this understanding but it makes sense seeing how small magnesium is when I break it down crayola style for myself..

 

[Ecompost]

One of the things I see when re mediating land is a layer of salt, typically caused by an over application of lime. Lime is not an answer to soil pH climb. it is a sticking plaster at best to a problem that will carry on happening because lime isnt an answer, nor is Sulfur imo, this is why you must add it over and over and over and over. As water washes this down, salts build up in to a layer, typically this is a no go zone for plant root systems.

 

[Ecompost]

 

[Homesteader]

The more I read the less I agree with some of the things she teaches. Not necessarily in your examples though. I think she is mistaken in thinking biology is the answer to soil so often. I think you can see the damage in all the organic forums with the problems people have. We have to blend all we learn. The assumption the plant will correct high/low pH is true from my understanding, but at what cost? Nobody ever talks about that. Yield? Never as quick as they make it out to be either and I would assume very small and slow changes to the soil. But what do I know? I'm certainly not selling anything though.

Ask 100% of soil growers on forums what there pH is, and half the time they say it doesn't matter the plant will fix that. Once again.......Only community college and never got an A so take it for what its worth.

 

[Ecompost]

The more I read the less I agree with some of the things she teaches. Not necessarily in your examples though. I think she is mistaken in thinking biology is the answer to soil so often. I think you can see the damage in all the organic forums. We have to blend all we learn. But what do I know? I'm certainly not selling anything though.

I agree we need to blend, we should always be taking the best current practice across the lot in all aspects of life. I added these examples to help explain a little about pH but I think @Seamaiden 's post from Ray is where what Elaine says is taken to another level and is more closely linked to Ag.

Simple thing, add lime, some of which washes in to profile, here it hits a different density and then forms a compaction layer. Water rests above layer, conditions go anaerobic, pH goes off. So here lime is adding to longterm headaches as much as solving them in the short term
I also like Ben Falk too among others for more homestead practice

 

[Homesteader]

I grew up under that mountain Brother! Thank you. The Lion Counchant...AKA Camels Hump.

 

[Ecompost]

added, in my experience, I have to top up all my organics every 3-4 years, I doubt we can ever be entirely nutrient free, but we can reduce what we use in most instances