Could Air Stones Be Doing More Harm Than Good?

[JMcG]

That 45 degree fitting seems to keep things agitated pretty well. Very gentle, probably because in my 55 gal UC 4 I am only using a 350 gph pump. Time will tell, but if dropping the air in favor of fluming maybe a bigger pump with a bit more flow to increase the current and the effect of the flume...?
There has been no residue buildup yet but it's only been a couple of days.

 

[FooDoo]

It's always nice when you try something new and it works. Props on the no air and super healthy plants. Looks great.

the real reward would be knowing i helped others with my experiment.

with the al-80 at 1.83amps and the epicenter pump at .37 amps that frees up 2.2 amps. you can run a 315w cmh which could yield you a #.

Also, ive noticed since removing the last airpump that my waterchiller hasnt turned on. The plant canopy keeps the light and heat from reaching the buckets. chiller is set to 73 and the water stays at a cold to touch 73 degrees without it even running

 

[FooDoo]

That 45 degree fitting seems to keep things agitated pretty well. Very gentle, probably because in my 55 gal UC 4 I am only using a 350 gph pump. Time will tell, but if dropping the air in favor of fluming maybe a bigger pump with a bit more flow to increase the current and the effect of the flume...?
There has been no residue buildup yet but it's only been a couple of days.

gentle is good. You dont want anything aggressive.

i think the white stuff in my system might be from the calcium carbonate that dripped in from foliar feeding first two weeks of flower. if thats true then you dont have to worry about any build up in your system

 

[PhatNuggz]

That 45 degree fitting seems to keep things agitated pretty well. Very gentle, probably because in my 55 gal UC 4 I am only using a 350 gph pump. Time will tell, but if dropping the air in favor of fluming maybe a bigger pump with a bit more flow to increase the current and the effect of the flume...?
There has been no residue buildup yet but it's only been a couple of days.

Simply restricting the flow from your ump should be sufficient

 

[FooDoo]

purple urkle x triangle kush #3, #5, and valleygirl

 

[JMcG]

Simply restricting the flow from your ump should be sufficient

Doh!
Love those simple solutions! Like Foo, I am totally ok with gentle. The 45 pointed upwards towards the roots at about a 45degree angle seems to slightly swirl the solution and bearely moves the finer roots hairs.
Foo, did you drop the level of you solution down to a couple inches below the net pot?

 

[JMcG]

purple urkle x triangle kush #3, #5, and valleygirl

Good looking girls!
So is that little bit of tip burn the first sign of nute burn or the beginning of a deficiency? I know it's kinda a newb question, but I see this too and I always wonder...
I usually err on the side of the burn and lower ec.

 

[FooDoo]

i have the nutrient solution high right now because if it gets below the net pot, theres nothing splashing up water to keep the medium wet. this causes the roots to dry out and die. once i do my waterfall modification, there will be a ton of splashing in the root zone and i will cut the water level in half to keep it as low away from the bottom of the net pot as i can without creating a negative impact.

so this experiment was to remove airstones and air pumps.

next im going to try and remove RO and go to filtered tap. this would save tons of money in not needing to create waste water with RO.

at the same time, im also going to try and remove half the water needed to run the UC in its factory configuration. so not only will i save a ton of money on my water from not needing to make RO but ill also save money on only using half as much as recommended. the current culture site lists my system with operating at 120 gallons.

also, since removing the last air pump, my water chiller hasnt ran for more than a few minutes. This is now on my list of items to remove. im not extremely confident i can run without a water chiller because during veg there isnt a canopy to block heat however im looking more and more into this. my 1/2hp chiller (UC recommended 1/4-1/2, i wish i had gone with the cheaper one from the start) says 4.4 amps running current. thats a lot. it would be nice to not need it anymore or maybe trade for a smaller unit.

as for the tip burn, that happened after a fresh nutrient mix on week 2 bloom that was at .9 ec. the system runs so flippin well now without airstones that i cant top .6 ec (300 tds). my system says it holds 120 gallons of water but when im adding ml/gal nutrients im only using 20 gallons for my math. thats 1/6th recommended strength.

saving money literally in every aspect of growing you could possibly think of.

at this rate, i could operate a 40 light warehouse for a couple hundred bucks a month lol

 

[JMcG]

Keep it super simple... or something like that:)
What ppm is your tap coming out at? I don't pay for water but the RO system is a moderate PITA. I would love to drop it too, but my tap clocks in at 170 Ppms and when I am only using 200- 250 in my solution it doesn't leave me much to work with. Haven't tested my water in awhile, I think it was loaded with iron...

 

[mandalaman]

Update on plants. Looking good since no agitation. I notice now my pH falls instead of rises. Is this flower vs Veg nute uptake or is it related somehow?

 

[PhatNuggz]

i have the nutrient solution high right now because if it gets below the net pot, theres nothing splashing up water to keep the medium wet. this causes the roots to dry out and die. once i do my waterfall modification, there will be a ton of splashing in the root zone and i will cut the water level in half to keep it as low away from the bottom of the net pot as i can without creating a negative impact.

so this experiment was to remove airstones and air pumps.

next im going to try and remove RO and go to filtered tap. this would save tons of money in not needing to create waste water with RO.

at the same time, im also going to try and remove half the water needed to run the UC in its factory configuration. so not only will i save a ton of money on my water from not needing to make RO but ill also save money on only using half as much as recommended. the current culture site lists my system with operating at 120 gallons.

also, since removing the last air pump, my water chiller hasnt ran for more than a few minutes. This is now on my list of items to remove. im not extremely confident i can run without a water chiller because during veg there isnt a canopy to block heat however im looking more and more into this. my 1/2hp chiller (UC recommended 1/4-1/2, i wish i had gone with the cheaper one from the start) says 4.4 amps running current. thats a lot. it would be nice to not need it anymore or maybe trade for a smaller unit.

as for the tip burn, that happened after a fresh nutrient mix on week 2 bloom that was at .9 ec. the system runs so flippin well now without airstones that i cant top .6 ec (300 tds). my system says it holds 120 gallons of water but when im adding ml/gal nutrients im only using 20 gallons for my math. thats 1/6th recommended strength.

saving money literally in every aspect of growing you could possibly think of.

at this rate, i could operate a 40 light warehouse for a couple hundred bucks a month lol

wasting tons of money using ro? LOL

Most people waste far more water taking a shower or washing dishes. If your water pressure is > 60 psi you aren't wasting much. My < $300 RO system comes with a booster pump which takes psi > 80, so minimal waste

 

[FooDoo]

Update on plants. Looking good since no agitation. I notice now my pH falls instead of rises. Is this flower vs Veg nute uptake or is it related somehow?

View attachment 665889

i notice mine does the same now. ph drops on a fresh batch for 2 days, then levels out for 2 days, then starts to rise slowly until the next fresh batch goes in.

 

[FooDoo]

wasting tons of money using ro? LOL

Most people waste far more water taking a shower or washing dishes. If your water pressure is > 60 psi you aren't wasting much. My < $300 RO system comes with a booster pump which takes psi > 80, so minimal waste

my water pressure is perfect. i have an ~$800 evo1000 ro with pre evo filter setup. this fills a 105 gallon stand up food grade water rez, and a flow master to monitor how much filtered water im making.

since my starting ppm for tap is .3ec i have the 1:1 waste ratio. Ive already made 6,000 gallons of RO so that means there was 6,000 gallons of waste produced and sent down the drain. ive used and paid for 12,000 gallons of water since buying the flowmeter to track production.

sorry phat, but your tiny homemade system is apples to oranges.

EDIT: dont take offense to the last comment. let me give some math.

to do a nutrient change on my system, theres 105 gallon rez and 120 gallons in the system

so i need to make 120 gallons to fill the system, 120 gallons waste. 105 to fill the rez, 105 waste. thats 450 gallons for a tank change. x2 weeks for veg, and then x10 for bloom.

450 x 12 = 5,400 gallons used and paid for during one run. x4 for 4 runs a year and thats 21,600 gallons a year on a little 16 site.

 

[stickyfing3rs]

My tap starts at 640 ppm :(

 

[diamond2.0]

Nice thread . I dont run air bubbles so i cant answer the question unfortunately . If it gets to hot that not good though as we know. I just started using just a top feed bucket like i was weened on .lol . Been 15 years since i ran one . Still had the pea gravel ,lol. Heres a what was a savere runt clone next to the same strain in soil both 1000 ppm . Not exactly the comparison though were looking for ,lol. My water is 60 ppm ph is 58 . well. Even with just the top feed branch's are much bigger catching up and passing my soil plants. Usaully i do 4 mainline tops with this particular strain and one branch is always weak and small normally . You can see that in the picture .same strain in top feed bucket was juts topped for 8 leads and all look strong and even. I'm debating whether to try 16 tops . hum. This is super basic top feed lol. Hose down the tube and runs over a couple plastic tags to different areas of pot . nft i like running 68 degrees but im in mid 70's now with bucket. I'm using g.h. maxigrow in the bucket and pure blend pro in soil. Movin right along....I eat this strain daily so i dont want it to dark.

 

[FooDoo]

looking good! pearly white roots.

im starting to think air pumps/stones cause root rot. would be nice to run a side by side to test this theory

 

[diamond2.0]

looking good! pearly white roots.

im starting to think air pumps/stones cause root rot. would be nice to run a side by side to test this theory

I would do it but i have a different strain in my only other bucket. Darno.

 

[FooDoo]

im going to up nitrogen a little. they look a little lime in some spots. all the lights will be replaced with 8 solistek CMH after this run as well

 

[diamond2.0]

Sounds nice ! the plant i posted is under 1200 watts of cmh . 3-400's in one 42"hood that spins back and forth by fan power . Will be budded under a agrosun gold deluxe though .

 

[palm eezy]

I'm running a slightly modified version of your 4-3-3-9 and find that slightly higher micro(for the N/Ca mostly) makes them a bit happier overall, especially at the stage you are at. I'll make my initial mix at 20-50% strength (depending on uptake) close to the 4-3-3-9 profile but on addbacks won't give quite as much P&K until late in flower.

Changing the solution closer to 10 days vs. 14 when running well under 1.0 EC also seems to keep the plants happier IME. I also find that it takes 2-3 days on a new mix to get the pH stable and rising, so it makes it tempting to stretch the mixes.

I got some FloraDuo to play with so it will be an interesting side by side at some point. Tough to just make the switch.

FooDoo, would you say you noticed an improvement in taste with the FloraDuo over the 3 part? Or same thing, easier to mix/tougher to screw up.