Blue Dream X Gorilla Glue #4.... Why Haven't These Beasts Been Crossed????

[Phylex]

My buddy has been asking me to grow blue dream. It's one of his favorites. I'm not getting in the middle of this argument but after reading it, I'm really tempted to see if I can find a real cut. More like a challenge or Easter egg hunt. lol

I've lived near Santa Cruz my entire life and I know a second generation grower who's lived in Santa Cruz his entire life. He's very well respected as a grower in the area. I'm tempted and will most likely reach out to him see if he has access to a cut or seeds. I have faith if there's someone in the area that has access to it, it would be him. I'm just curious now after reading the debate. Not to mention my buddy would be stoked.

I planned on growing Blue Dream for my friend in a few grows anyway. I just have some other plans I wanted to dabble in first.

 

[hyzerflip]

..... herp derp


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LoL, do you believe everything you read?

 

[hyzerflip]

They're called selection methodologies.

You can use selection skills to recreate simplistic cultivars like blue dream.

Do tell, what makes a cultivar 'simplistic' vs 'complicated'? It sounds like you know of some special distinction that is unknown to agricultural professionals the world over.

What's another example of a 'simplistic' cultivar? What's an example of 'complicated' cultivar? What specifically makes 'complicated' cultivars harder to reproduce than 'simple' cultivars?

 

[BioStimz]

Do tell, what makes a cultivar 'simplistic' vs 'complicated'? It sounds like you know of some special distinction that is unknown to agricultural professionals the world over.

So through the process of selection.... why don't you tell me how the crossing of a select haze hybrid with a select blueberry cultivar, to create a Blue Dream terpene-profile & growth structure.... is not simplistic?

That's elementary shit compared to something like GG4. If you try recreating GG4 with Chemdog's Sister/Sour dubb/Choc diesel, you'll be in for a long wait before you find the right combination (but it might take 3 or 4 lifetimes first).

 

[BioStimz]

LoL, do you believe everything you read?

Said the dude who wouldn't recognize Panama Red if it was right in front of his face. Let me guess.... Chocolate Thai doesn't exist anymore either right?

Yeah, Snowhigh and Coastal are just a bunch of liars who don't know shit about landrace cultivars right? lol

Take your head out of your ass.


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[hyzerflip]

So through the process of selection.... why don't you tell me how the crossing of a select haze hybrid with a select blueberry cultivar, to create a Blue Dream terpene-profile & growth structure.... is not simplistic?

That's elementary shit compared to something like GG4. If you try recreating GG4 with Chem Sis/Sour dubb/Choc diesel, you'll be in for a long wait before you find the right combination (but it might take 3 or 4 lifetimes first).

Are you under the impression that if you don't know the parents of the parents then it's a 'simple' cross? 'Haze' isn't just 'Haze', it's a complex polyhybrid just like Chemdog's Sister / Sour Dubb / Choc Diesel. Just like Blueberry.

"I personally don't know what the genetics of the parents are so it must be simple!" XD

 

[hyzerflip]

Said the dude who wouldn't recognize Panama Red if it was right in front of his face. Let me guess.... Chocolate Thai doesn't exist anymore either right?

Yeah, Snowhigh and Coastal are just a bunch of liars who don't know shit about landrace cultivars right? lol

Take your head out of your ass.


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That's a great point, man. There's no way seed breeders would just go and lie, on the internet, about what genetics they're using. Silly me. XD

 

[BioStimz]

Are you under the impression that if you don't know the parents of the parents then it's a 'simple' cross?

"I personally don't know what the genetics of the parents are so it must be simple!" XD

The Haze bros selected females from their Mexican/Columbian sativa hybrid and crossed them to a landrace South Indian cultivar, which were then hit with a landrace Thai male.

Nonetheless, it's just a classic earthy haze (high beta-caryophyllene/beta-myrcene, alpha-humulene/alpha-pinene) terpene-profile against a blueberry terpene-profile that everyone recognizes. It's not complicated.

Hell, off the top of my head Positronics has a kickass Mexican/South Indian/Thai haze variant that would probably work well enough to cross to a Jordan of the Island Blueberry.

 

[BioStimz]

That's a great point, man. There's no way seed breeders would just go and lie, on the internet, about what genetics they're using. Silly me. XD

Like I was saying.... you wouldn't know Panama Red if it was right in front of your face - which it was in the SnowHigh pic.... herp derp

 

[BioStimz]

you'd still have to grow mountains of seeds to find an individual on the level of an elite.

rofl

Here's the pic I posted earlier of a GG4 S1 from Dankonomics Genetics.... and it was from a fukin 20-seed run, so eat that Skippy!

 

[hyzerflip]

No, you're right. Breeding is easy, and it's no trouble at all to recreate any clone only variety from any old whatever you can find. My bad. Good luck with your grows.

 

[SoLowDolo]

It's pretty simple, in my eyes anyway, and I don't really see what the argument is about...

There is a reason people clone. Every plant is unique. I think of the plants as humans. The mom and Dad could have 100 kids, and they may be similar but no 2 kids are ever the same.

And if you are gonna try to recreate a strain by just getting the same strains as the parent plants, that would be like trying to get one of my aunt and uncles to fuck to try to recreate me... Never gonna happen, and it might not even be close, if that makes sense to anyone lol.

Sorry, I'm high right now :D

 

[BioStimz]

Do you not understand that inbreeding causes... inbreeding depression? This is one of the most basic concepts in breeding.

Oh really? How many generations is it gonna take? Speaking of basic concepts, it looks like you gonna need some elementary schooling (note the statement on breeding depression in monacious vs dioecious lines.... then pay close attention to the part where it says "In contrast to the deleterious effects of inbreeding, hybrid vigor is frequently observed.")

Cannabis A Complete Guide (2016).
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Publication date 2016-11-17

 

[SoLowDolo]

Reduce vigor? Yeah ok lol

Let me know if you need some links to peer-reviewed journals which clearly demonstrate S2IBL offspring with the exact same genotype & chemotype as the parental clone.

Do you even understand what it means when you have offspring with matching chemotypes as the parent? herp derp





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Oh really? How many generations is it gonna take? Speaking of basic concepts, it looks like you gonna need some elementary schooling (note the statement on breeding depression in monacious vs dioecious lines.... then pay close attention to the part where it says "In contrast to the deleterious effects of inbreeding, hybrid vigor is frequently observed.")


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Cannabis A Complete Guide (2016).
Identifier-ark ark:/13960/t8jf07z1c
Publication date 2016-11-17

I'm not a smart man, and won't claim to be. I'm also not here to argue, but learn. That being said, am I missing something here?

In the first quote you laughed at the fact that it would reduce vigor, then you share an excerpt that clearly states that it does reduce vigor?

The reduction in vigor is less pronounced in dioecious plants but it's still there, according to that excerpt. And it basically states that the greatest reduction in vigor would be caused from a plant pollinating itself. Or is that only in reference to a TRUE hermaphroditic plant, and not just nanners or something?

 

[BioStimz]

I'm not a smart man, and won't claim to be. I'm also not here to argue, but learn. That being said, am I missing something here? In the first quote you laughed at the fact that it would reduce vigor, then you share an excerpt that clearly states that it does reduce vigor?

The excerpt I quoted and posted a picture of didn't state anything other than the exact opposite of what is being suggested.

"hybrid vigor is frequently observed."




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[SoLowDolo]

The excerpt I quoted and posted a picture of didn't state anything other than the exact opposite of what is being suggested.

"hybrid vigor is frequently observed."




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They worded it kinda weird so I don't think we are going to agree on this. Because you may interpret it differently.

HYBRID vigor is frequently observed. As in, vigor is observed in HYBRIDS.

I thought this discussion is about producing S1 seeds.

You said "reduce vigor? Yea ok lol"

But your article states "...it is even possible for a plant to fertilize itself. However, inbreeding depression is pronounced."

It then states all the ill effects of inbreeding, which is reduced vigor. It also states these effects are worse in plants that are self pollinated. - monoescious inbreeding

It says that it's not AS BAD in dioecious plants, but vigor is still reduced.

When it speaks of hybrid vigor, it is referring to crossing 2 different strains. The way I interpret it is as follows...

Say you cross sour diesel x sour diesel from the same parent plants. This would be inbreeding of diescious plants. These plants will have reduced vigor compared to, let's say, sour diesel x blueberry.

However, the sour diesel x sour diesel would be more vigorous than a sour diesel that pollinates itself - monoescious inbreeding

That's just how I interpret it...

 

[BioStimz]

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3. Reduction vs. Increase in Vigour, Yield and Reproductive Ability:
Due to inbreeding there is a general reduction in vigour of the population, plants become shorter and weaker. The hybrids are generally more vigorous, healthier and increased in size. The reproductive ability also decreases in the population rapidly due to inbreeding, many lines reproduce so poorly that these cannot be maintained. The hybrids exhibiting heterosis show an increase in fertility or reproductive ability.

Inbreeding generally leads to loss in yield; the inbred lines yield much less than the open pollinated varieties from which they are derived. Heterosis is generally expressed as an increase in yield of the hybrid. Commercially this phenomenon is of great importance as an objective of plant breeding.

http://www.biologydiscussion.com/plants/inbreeding-depression-and-hybrid-vigour-plants/60850

Multiple-generation inbreeding is performed to reduce heterozygosity. The frequency of heterozygotes decreases by half, each generation and recessive-lethal & sub-lethal mutations are generally purged.

This inherently increases homozygosity and decreases the likelihood of within-population inbreeding-depression.

Inbreeding-depression is actually synonymous with heterosis (the tendency of a crossbred individual to show fitness advantages superior to those of both parents), as a result of overdominance and epistasis (Lynch 1991; Lynch and Walsh 1998).



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[jumpincactus]

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Multiple-generation inbreeding is performed to reduce heterozygosity. The frequency of heterozygotes decreases by half, each generation and recessive-lethal & sub-lethal mutations are generally purged.

This inherently increases homozygosity and decreases the likelihood of within-population inbreeding-depression.

Inbreeding-depression is actually synonymous with heterosis (the tendency of a crossbred individual to show fitness advantages superior to those of both parents), as a result of overdominance and epistasis (Lynch 1991; Lynch and Walsh 1998).



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Damn , you know whats up I see. Thx for including the citation. Will check it out. :smoking:

 

[Jason321]

I have crossed them i called her Nightmare GORILLA. Female auto strain

 

[Jason321]

No one is creating bluedream, we want to cross Bd with gg. Why would that be hard?
S1, from bluedream is very possible but why would one fuck with genetics of a perfectly good breed? I’m saying it’s possible, not impossible like. You mentioned.

I did it if you want some nightmare gorilla hit me up 10 bucks a seed