FFOF vs cheap peat based soils

[growsince79]

Any Canadians here have good suggestions? I have FFOF for my fist grow and Idk if I want to pay this price every time. Or maybe i'll mix with something.

I think paying $22 to grow over half lb is cheap. That would cost me $2000 at the store and wouldn't be as good. My buds never get sprayed with anything ever.

 

[growsince79]

You use FF? It's a little pricey here I pay $25 for the bag. The bag is currently 3/4 empty with being used on 2 plants.

I get 2cuft bag of coco loco and grow 4. It's $18 + $4 for amendments- and grows at least a half pound in 4 months with 2- 150w lights. imo that's cheap.

 

[JadedMarxist]

This is what's in my pots currently.

Bought from Dollarama in Ontario for 10l for 2 bucks

 

[JadedMarxist]

I think ppl use ff out of habit. Really or because there so new to growing. I used fox farm nutes 20 years ago now, not a chance. I don't know where some of your prices are Comming from obviously the states, pipe carver is right in Canada ff is like wearing a rolex.

You wear a rolex only to show off because it reality it's obsolete tech. Trust me I own a rolex. When I wear it do you think I ever even look at it nope I still check time on my cell. Using ff is like a status symbol. I also noticed the older growers have all mostly left ff behind.

It's unfortunate because it takes some experience to grow good in them soils that's why so many post "why is my plant leaves burned to crisp I haven't even used nuts yet".

No way I'd ever pay that price when the soil in my lawn would grow just as good but not burn the babies.

 

[PipeCarver]

Yes

Ill try to answer, i could be way off but i started out using it for this reason as it was explained to me back then and i still use the FF coco loco for seedlings: FFOF has nutes in it already and should get you through Veg depending on how long you Veg. FFSF (Strawberry Fields) has nutes in it to get you through flower (Supposedly). So my understanding is that the whole grow if you use FFOF & FFSF you should not need to add anything except water. So if your in a 3 gal or 5 gal its not realy too bad price wise as you just buy water. Now i think they have a bag for growing from seed through flower too.

Do you need to add any nutes or other amendment's to yours?

No amendments just the GH flora series. I do notice it weak in nutes and I'll add 1/4 -1/4 - 1/4 ml per gal after 2 weeks then start upping it as they grow. I like it because of the amount perlite , vermiculite and it buffers the ph very well much better than ProMix imo.

 

[PipeCarver]

This is what's in my pots currently.

Bought from Dollarama in Ontario for 10l for 2 bucks

I've bought some of that for our house plants and tried using it for clones/cuttings thinking it may be better than the VPW 30 for starting. I found it too dense and cuttings didn't grow at all they died and the stem rotted. I just stick my cuttings into the dirt with root hormone and I get most of them to grow. Not so with that potting mix. That was my only attempt with it and it may work fine for growing in but I didn't buy any more.

 

[Edinburgh]

People think ffof is a hot mix it's not just chock full of nutrients, i grow autoflowers and if it was hot this medium would not work so well, you feed very very lighley until the plant gets big then some strains suck up all the nutrients and turn into pigs, you just cant go wrong with this stuff, and i would never put a $20 dollar bean in miricle grow, nothing but the best for my girls, however i did here pro mix was good but why try and fix something that is not broken?

 

[Dirtbag]

@Cheekiestsauce, Pro-mix has been the go-to soiless mix for BC bud growers going on 30 years. It's cheap, performs very well and is super easy to use. Just know, it comes with fungus gnats 60% of the time... Yellow sticky traps are almost always bought along side promix lol.

 

[growsince79]

I might experiment with strawberry fields next grow.

 

[jaguarlax]

Maybe my method of informing others of viable options is different than yours. I don't really care why you come here. Why do you care why I come here? Is doing your thang informing others what you'd like to don't like to read here. Do you have list of questions I should avoid so not offend your eye's? Did my question strike a nerve? I thought it was to each their own? Just ignore me that will solve your problem.

If there is a dam good reason to use it then I'd like to know. I'm here to learn what others do and why they do what they do.

I started off with Big Rootz Soil which is a peat base with some coco. But like everyone else its a bit tough right now to pay 50 dollars a bag for soil... Now I am running a mix of like 6 different products including FFOF. I found that most peat based products are similar, But I would imagine that people like the Fox Farms stuff especially oceans finest because it comes with some goodies not found in typical store bought soil. i.e: seabird or bat guano, dolomite ( not sure if thats FF or Big Rootz) Mychorizae and some other stuff. So far I have found only the more "premium soils" come with the amendments that I like but I cannot purchase them local. I have picked up a few bags of the peat based stuff over the weeks (Promix and some no nutrient organic bs from lowes) and have found that the consistency is also a bit different compared to some of the "good "stuff. I wound up amending the store bought stuff with vermiculite, great white mychorizae, an extra brick of coco shells, and a bit of limestone to get it where i wanted it.. That said I wound up saving absoloutely no money, and probably wound up with something similar to what I would of gotten from FF in the first place. But hey, I saved that shipping charge :/

 

[Dirtbag]

This is really an apples to oranges debate I think. Stuff like promix is cheaper but requires feeding pretty much immediately. FFOF has enough food to grow for a month. That's a fair bit of nutrients saved and that adds up. That said FFOF is way overpriced in Canada and on the internet, and I can see where you are coming from Pipecarver. I couldnt justify the price either and dont like the lack of control I'd have growing with it either. But the price gap is much smaller in the US and other places, and it has earned a reputation among pot growers.

Promix, or the mix Pipecarver has is for soiless hydroponic growing. FFOF is a potting soil mix (albeit made with a soiless mix as a base) with organic amendments and added nutrients, designed to be used as a water only, sort of "supersoil" type of potting mix. They look alike, but they're two different types of media altogether.

I would class things in terms of; Potting soil mixes like FFHF or OF, or super soil etc.

Soiless hydroponics, growing media with a CEC and buffers, but no nutrient value like Promix, proterra, Coco, etc..

Then substrate based inert hydroponics with no cec like rockwool, hydroton etc. Finally Straight water based like DWC or aero.

The lightbulb really went on for me lately when I realized $40 worth of coco and $16 worth of fabric pots will grow me the same crop as $150 worth of rockwool. That's a much closer comparison than promix vs FFOF.

 

[PipeCarver]

This is really an apples to oranges debate I think. Stuff like promix is cheaper but requires feeding pretty much immediately. FFOF has enough food to grow for a month. That's a fair bit of nutrients saved and that adds up. That said FFOF is way overpriced in Canada and on the internet, and I can see where you are coming from Pipecarver. I couldnt justify the price either and dont like the lack of control I'd have growing with it either. But the price gap is much smaller in the US and other places, and it has earned a reputation among pot growers.

Promix, or the mix Pipecarver has is for soiless hydroponic growing. FFOF is a potting soil mix (albeit made with a soiless mix as a base) with organic amendments and added nutrients, designed to be used as a water only, sort of "supersoil" type of potting mix. They're two different types of media altogether.

I would class things in terms of; Potting soil mixes like FFHF or OF, or super soil etc.

Soiless hydroponics, growing media with a CEC and buffers, but no nutrient value like Promix, proterra, Coco, etc..

Then substrate based inert hydroponics like rockwool, hydroton etc. Finally Straight water based like DWC or aero.

The lightbulb really went on for me lately when I realized $40 worth of coco and $16 worth of fabric pots will grow me the same crop as $150 worth of rockwool. That's a much closer comparison than promix vs FFOF.

Thanks, there ya go an explanation that works. I still think its habit and peer pressure, I see so many starting off with the FFOF believing if they use the top of the line stuff they won't have issues. Not so though and I believe that the starter fluid & over watering causes more problems than an inert media for new growers. You get what you add and nothing else. Yes weak initially but very very light feeding is all that's required.

@ Dirtbag Even with the Us dollar consideration if they can get FFOF at $14 a bag I still need a bag and a half a plant. with 25 plants that's still $525 Usa compared to a bag of Promix at $20 Usa for 20 - 25 plants and the stuff I use is even less.

I knew it would be blasphemy to knock FF soil with the religious fervor associated with it here but there are alternatives that can be used with success. That was really my only reason for this thread to get people talking about alternatives to the expensive FFOF.

 

[Animal Chin]

I've used so many brands I lost count. After shops closed or moved and distribution was sketchy for brands like Promix, Vermifire, Black Gold and others I went to a huge nursery and saw they had everything made by FF for way less money than I'd ever seen it sold in hydroshops.
Today I use FFHF and either the HF dry Fruit and Flower blend or I order Uprising dry blends online. The HF I buy is more about availability and price than status. Less than a 5 minute drive and I pay $18 for the big bags that were $30 at a hydroshop. I also like Roots Greenfields for starting seeds and get it off ebay really cheap with free delivery.

All I can say is that HF plays well with my water and I have good success with it. Others have said it's the worst ever or most over rated and expensive ever and that's cool. What works for me may not work for others and prices always reflect location.
I'm the same way with some of the promix line or FFOF...both just kick my ass to get it to perform well but that does'nt mean it sucks for everybody and I dont let my bad experiences with FFOF influence my opinion of everything else made by FF. I mean shit man...that beastie blooms and open sesame stuff they make is a dang plant killer for me but it must be doing well for somebody because they keep making it and selling it

I think HF probably could get a plant to harvest without ever adding food with timely upcans of fresh soil. Per 7 gallons of HF I only add a handful of HF dry blend nutes with a layer in the bottom 3rd of a container or mixed throughout, results seem to be the same either way. I do this when I flip to bloom and just keep them watered until harvest but every two weeks I do inoculate with Great White. I dont check or adjust pH and I dont use liquid fertilizers.

 

[quirk]

Can you explain how to add dry amendments to the Soil. Do you just too dress with the amendments then Water? Mix in the soil? And what kind of dry amendments do you use? Thanks.
Burnz

I follow these instructions Burnz. Auto grower.

 

[Glassdub]

I hate Fox Farm, used there tomato fertilizer & it was worthless, wouldn't touch it for weed so they can keep their silly deadhead packaging.

 

[Dirtbag]

Thanks, there ya go an explanation that works. I still think its habit and peer pressure, I see so many starting off with the FFOF believing if they use the top of the line stuff they won't have issues. Not so though and I believe that the starter fluid & over watering causes more problems than an inert media for new growers. You get what you add and nothing else. Yes weak initially but very very light feeding is all that's required.

@ Dirtbag Even with the Us dollar consideration if they can get FFOF at $14 a bag I still need a bag and a half a plant. with 25 plants that's still $525 Usa compared to a bag of Promix at $20 Usa for 20 - 25 plants and the stuff I use is even less.

I knew it would be blasphemy to knock FF soil with the religious fervor associated with it here but there are alternatives that can be used with success. That was really my only reason for this thread to get people talking about alternatives to the expensive FFOF.

Bag and a half per plant? How big are your pots man!

Nevermind, I worked it out to 15 gallon pots. each bag of FFOF has about 9 ish gallons.
Man, 1 gal pots of coco looks better every day! lol

 

[PipeCarver]

Bag and a half per plant? How big are your pots man!

Nevermind, I worked it out to 15 gallon pots. each bag of FFOF has about 9 ish gallons.
Man, 1 gal pots of coco looks better every day! lol

The bags I see locally here in the garden center are $24.95 per bag and 1 bag won't do it in a 3 gallon pot. They look like they'd do about 3/4 pot. so maybe my 1.5 was off a bit but the point is the same.

Even if by chance they filled the pot that's still $30 pot taxes in per plant Cdn. Compared to my less than a $1 per pot that stuff would need to be growing monsters from seed to harvest in a month for me to even consider using it....

.. I have no doubt its a good product but the expense turns me off. Why drive a Rolls Royce to go shopping at the mall when a PT Cruiser will get you there and back safely? to look good? to show off your status? to show you got more money to waste?

I liked my PT and I shouldn't have updated.

 

[Glassdub]

What would be a good ratio of worm castings to ProMix BX in a 5 gal sack?

 

[Ina]

Any peat(i mean label,not type of) will do,you can amend it whatever you want.......Just read the PH on the back because there is too acidic types.Here i try different rose substrates because they are nice and there plenty in the big stores,mostly peat(black,white or both) and i add things if i want to like zeolites,vermiculite,some sands,stones,manure, compost or worm castings....The 50lt bags are cheap,you can mix different blends...... Peat is the base,fertz should be less, and enough drainage........VOILA haha Here most of the peat base mixes are German or Ukrainian or Estonian or whatever,we also have few Bulgarian blends that are working just fine strait from the bag.But i always like to amend them a little bit more,mostly they all need more perlite:)I never tried those soils you are mentioning on THC farmer(except Canna terra and Bio bizz,i wasnt impressed by bio bizz soils,Canna was better).

 

[Beachwalker]

The bags I see locally here in the garden center are $24.95 per bag and 1 bag won't do it in a 3 gallon pot. They look like they'd do about 3/4 pot. so maybe my 1.5 was off a bit but the point is the same.

Even if by chance they filled the pot that's still $30 pot taxes in per plant Cdn. Compared to my less than a $1 per pot that stuff would need to be growing monsters from seed to harvest in a month for me to even consider using it....

.. I have no doubt its a good product but the expense turns me off. Why drive a Rolls Royce to go shopping at the mall when a PT Cruiser will get you there and back safely? to look good? to show off your status? to show you got more money to waste?

I liked my PT and I shouldn't have updated.

I mentioned it before but I guess it got lost that the 1.5 cubic foot ffof bag fills 9 to 12 three gallon pots (with one third volume added perlite)

I don't know why you're saying that one bag doesn't even fill one 3-gallon pot because that's not accurate?

I've seen they have small bags but even a small bag would fill several 3 gallon pots