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Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

Right. Aeroponics delivers the most o2. the rest of the parameters always have to keep up or the plant will slow in any method. its the real reason soil is easiest. Its the slowest. Managing the O2 of a soil grow requires the most touch that comes with...
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Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

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Discussion below · 1,738 replies
Page 11 of 87 · Replies 201–220 of 1,739
#201
MIMedGrower said:
Right. Aeroponics delivers the most o2.

the rest of the parameters always have to keep up or the plant will slow in any method.

its the real reason soil is easiest. Its the slowest.
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Managing the O2 of a soil grow requires the most touch that comes with experience imo, but once you have that touch I agree it's probably the easiest.

(I mean via watering)
 
#205
That's where I throw in the towel and naively assume if you have a healthy and active soil and the right environmental parameters, you're just gonna 'get' all the phytochemicals that the genetics have to offer. Kind of why I'm drawn to live soils, tbh... once it's set, I don't have to think.
 
#206
Dirtbag said:
The interesting thing to me that hasn't come up yet in this discussion is the impact the function of living soil has on flavour and terpene expression.
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You can also have that in hydro to an extent. Obviously the bacteria produce the enzymes and thats the important part of those and could be done in hydro

Now the fungi not so much but in coco as a media with a trickle filter i think absolutely would be as good if not better provided you built the system for it.

Like a trickle filter with a bed of say peat, living soil mix. Mocrobes added to the coco. For the fungi. Bacteria homes in the coco and filter media.
 
#207
Dirtbag said:
The interesting thing to me that hasn't come up yet in this discussion is the impact the function of living soil has on flavour and terpene expression.
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I had found a trial that showed more terpenes and flavenoids with a plant grown organically than the salt based fertilized plant.

It was a food crop. I cant remember which but had little to do with an annual flower.
 
#208
beluga said:
That's where I throw in the towel and naively assume if you have a healthy and active soil and the right environmental parameters, you're just gonna 'get' all the phytochemicals that the genetics have to offer. Kind of why I'm drawn to live soils, tbh... once it's set, I don't have to think.
Click to expand...


I think environment has way more to do with it. If you want proper genetic expression i think we would have to copy the original land race soil as well. But we dont. We mix balanced soils. Or complete fertilizer. Neither is like the original plants situation for nutrients.
 
#209
I say this because plants don't actually need the soil. But microbes do in a sense. So with the coco you have the surface area and good home for the microbes at the rootzone for thise symbiotic relationships. All nutrients etc. Need to be dissolved in the water in order to be taken up by the plant in soil or hydro.

I agree with @MIMedGrower that the extra microbes in contact with the root and exchanging compounds with the plant that happens readily in organic or living soils likely has an impact on the enzymes, terps and flavinoids content and possible concentration the plant produces.
 
#211
MIMedGrower said:
I think environment has way more to do with it. If you want proper genetic expression i think we would have to copy the original land race soil as well. But we dont. We mix balanced soils. Or complete fertilizer. Neither is like the original plants situation for nutrients.
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This only matter if you’re chasing the phenotypic expression of land races in nature.

I just want MORE terps.
 
#212
Aqua Man said:
I say this because plants don't actually need the soil. But microbes do in a sense. So with the coco you have the surface area and good home for the microbes at the rootzone for thise symbiotic relationships. All nutrients etc. Need to be dissolved in the water in order to be taken up by the plant in soil or hydro.

I agree with @MIMedGrower that the extra microbes in contact with the root and exchanging compounds with the plant that happens readily in organic or living soils likely has an impact on the enzymes, terps and flavinoids content and possible concentration the plant produces.
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Dont agree with me. I just read one test that said that about beans or something.

So far i am finding weed tastes better even cleaner and more specific to the strain it is in a soiless environment. Wondering if hydro actually tastes best?

Of course there are still soil microbes in the peat grown plant.
 
#213
I guess what I find confusing and interesting is how, although you can come close by supplementing organics and biologicals into inert systems like hydro, its still not quite the same as the level of terpene production you get from pure living soils, or aquaponics that are fully dependent on the microbial life to survive.

It really messes with my head trying to understand this stuff.

Some good friends of mine are growing organically now after decades of running ammended soiless systems and the flavour and burn quality of their cannabis has shot through the roof. Im 100% convinced that there is a connection between microbial dependence and terpene expression. Because simple microbial supplementation into chelated feeding routines just does not seem to produce the same results.
 
#216
Hortulanus said:
This only matter if you’re chasing the phenotypic expression of land races in nature.

I just want MORE terps.
Click to expand...


Last harvested plants are the best tasting so far from my room and have far less organics in the mix. Used to be ocean forest (amended soil) now pro mix hp. Used to be pure blend pro (natural based nutes with kelp extract and worm castings) now dyna grow foliage pro (100% chemical salt based).


And hydro is already known to be able to grow higher potency.


I expected the opposite results. Why? Industry hype i guess.
 
#218
MIMedGrower said:
Dont agree with me. I just read one test that said that about beans or something.

So far i am finding weed tastes better even cleaner and more specific to the strain it is in a soiless environment. Wondering if hydro actually tastes best?

Of course there are still soil microbes in the peat grown plant.
Click to expand...

In that interview with Steve Dale he did say that hydro is easiest to produce really clean flavorful herb, simply because its the easiest to remove excess nutrients from at the end of the grow. Far more so than soiless.
But that for him well built living soil or aquaponics produces the tastiest and cleanest burning pot by far.

I realize he isn't the authority on the matter but I certainly do respect his perspective. Having smoked a lot of spice of life gear and knowing his history and current situation, he is a pretty solid resource of info in my books.
 
#219
Dirtbag said:
In that interview with Steve Dale he did say that hydro is easiest to produce really clean flavorful herb, simply because its the easiest to remove excess nutrients from at the end of the grow. Far more so than soiless.
But that for him well built living soil or aquaponics produces the tastiest and cleanest burning pot by far.

I realize he isn't the authority on the matter but I certainly do respect his perspective. Having smoked a lot of spice of life gear and knowing his history and current situation, he is a pretty solid resource of info in my books.
Click to expand...


I believe in order of importance. Environment-grower-genetics.


And every grow and grower is different.
 
#220
MIMedGrower said:
Last harvested plants are the best tasting so far from my room and have far less organics in the mix. Used to be ocean forest (amended soil) now pro mix hp. Used to be pure blend pro (natural based nutes with kelp extract and worm castings) now dyna grow foliage pro (100% chemical salt based).


And hydro is already known to be able to grow higher potency.


I expected the opposite results. Why? Industry hype i guess.
Click to expand...
Aqua Man said:
I say this because plants don't actually need the soil. But microbes do in a sense. So with the coco you have the surface area and good home for the microbes at the rootzone for thise symbiotic relationships. All nutrients etc. Need to be dissolved in the water in order to be taken up by the plant in soil or hydro.

I agree with @MIMedGrower that the extra microbes in contact with the root and exchanging compounds with the plant that happens readily in organic or living soils likely has an impact on the enzymes, terps and flavinoids content and possible concentration the plant produces.
Click to expand...

There’s so many moving parts to your anecdote though mimed.
So many variables could have lead to the better flavour of your last harvest.

I’m going by a couple studies that showed KNF (not just organic) having more terps and trichs over all.

(I’m desperately looking for this study I read that in.)

I agree with @Dirtbag that there is a beneficial emergence from the symbiosis of healthy microbes and plant. I don’t know why though but the KNF grown stuff I’ve seen just has no comparison.
 
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