Searching for high THCV strains

[Milson]

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen any mention of the terpine humulene, which is also claimed to be an appetite suppressant. I just found out about this the other day, and am looking for more info on it.

First off, awesome first post! Welcome to the farm. Sorry about the two threads thing.....stuff happens.

Also, congratulations on the weight loss! I have to imagine that feels amazing for you. I know after my own i feel much better.

Re: humulene, it is supposed to be the dominant terp in widow and i can back up the hunger thing with widow....(and yes i get that hoppy sense from it....i used to be a very enthusiastic beer drinker).

 

[Ali_Tarpate]

First off, awesome first post! Welcome to the farm. Sorry about the two threads thing.....stuff happens.

Also, congratulations on the weight loss! I have to imagine that feels amazing for you. I know after my own i feel much better.

Re: humulene, it is supposed to be the dominant terp in widow and i can back up the hunger thing with widow....(and yes i get that hoppy sense from it....i used to be a very enthusiastic beer drinker).

View attachment 1107980

It would be nice to find or breed a strain that was rich in both THCV and humulene, Wouldn't it? Girl Scout Cookies is supposed to be high in the humulene, but with only a trace of THCV, even though Durban Poison is one of the parents.

• Girl Scout Cookies: This popular strain has some of the highest humulene levels around at approximately 2.45%. In addition to its fantastic terpene profile, Girl Scout Cookies contains an average of 17% THC and trace levels of CBD.
• Thin Mint Girl Scout Cookies: As the name suggests, Thin Mint GSC is closely related to Girl Scout Cookies. However, it is a slightly more balanced hybrid with a 50/50 indica to sativa breakdown. It contains around 2.35% humulene and an average of 20% THC.

 

[Milson]

It would be nice to find or breed a strain that was rich in both THCV and humulene, Wouldn't it? Girl Scout Cookies is supposed to be high in the humulene, but with only a trace of THCV, even though Durban Poison is one of the parents.

• Girl Scout Cookies: This popular strain has some of the highest humulene levels around at approximately 2.45%. In addition to its fantastic terpene profile, Girl Scout Cookies contains an average of 17% THC and trace levels of CBD.
• Thin Mint Girl Scout Cookies: As the name suggests, Thin Mint GSC is closely related to Girl Scout Cookies. However, it is a slightly more balanced hybrid with a 50/50 indica to sativa breakdown. It contains around 2.35% humulene and an average of 20% THC.

You can see above (tlc test i did) that the widow I just grew definitely has thcv.

I think I'm going to end up doing another widow run sooner rather than later by popular demand. Will have to keep a mom this time....

Fwiw, i think it's the sativa leaning phenos that have it.

I definitely have a ton of interest in the terpenes other than myrcene myrcene myrcene generally.

 

[Skeptik]

Hello, I just found this forum (and thread) searching around for info on THCV.

This is my first post here. I found out about THCV accidentally. I hadn't smoked anything in some years, and a friend told me about this strain he was using that he said gave him energy and motivation. He gave me some, and I was kind of hesitant because I thought it would give me munchies, and I was severely overweight.So I tried a tiny hit in a pipe. Boy, it was strong. Lunch time rolled around where I would usually stuff myself after a few aperitivi, and I wasn't really hungry, and the thought of eating kind of turned me off. Wow - this is great! I kept using it, and now over a year later, I have lost 65 pounds. The strain? Durban Poison. It not only killed my appetite, it made me feel satiated after eating very little. It also turned me off to alcohol, and helped me develop better eating habits, so my dependence on the smoke lessened.

Last week I harvested a couple of ounces of Jack the Ripper f2 from Subcool seeds. Got it from a cool US seller too. It's in cure right now. I only have room for a very small grow, so I use a "space bucket" of my own design. Three plants in a trash can with lights on top, grown in an ultra simple hydroponic setup. There are pics, but I don't know if I'm allowed to link them here.

I've read through the two threads on this subject with much interest, you guys are light years ahead of where I am, but I thought I would share my experience. I'm a real novice at this. Right now I have some Novarine seeds on order from Spain.

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen any mention of the terpine humulene, which is also claimed to be an appetite suppressant. I just found out about this the other day, and am looking for more info on it.

Welcome!, and wow! If you've read through the whole thread, I expect you picked up our parallel paths, but I'm a couple years ahead of you in the search. Congrats on the shortcut! I dropped 50 lbs when I unknowingly grew a high THCV plant, and have been looking for it ever since. @Moe.Red also struck gold with a Durban Poison, while the ones I bought and grew from Dutch Passion had little to no V. Good news that someone sprung for Novarine. There's little doubt that amongst us, we have the genes. Just a matter of finding the right combo.

Good tip on the humulene, BTW. I'm not familiar with it, but will add it to my list of possibles.

 

[Moe.Red]

Here are the results from my green stem Lebanese
No thcV. Some CBD tho.View attachment 1106864

I wish I could find a lab that detailed. Very nice report, and cheaper than mine to boot. Time to move to OK.

 

[Moe.Red]

It would be nice to find or breed a strain that was rich in both THCV and humulene, Wouldn't it? Girl Scout Cookies is supposed to be high in the humulene, but with only a trace of THCV, even though Durban Poison is one of the parents.

• Girl Scout Cookies: This popular strain has some of the highest humulene levels around at approximately 2.45%. In addition to its fantastic terpene profile, Girl Scout Cookies contains an average of 17% THC and trace levels of CBD.
• Thin Mint Girl Scout Cookies: As the name suggests, Thin Mint GSC is closely related to Girl Scout Cookies. However, it is a slightly more balanced hybrid with a 50/50 indica to sativa breakdown. It contains around 2.35% humulene and an average of 20% THC.

I have been working on a short cut. Right now I have THCV isolate + White Widow on board. It's working. About to switch it up and try edible for a week next.

 

[Imone]

That will b interesting indeed, have you read that adding malodextrin makes edibles work faster? I'm also wondering about doing fresh extract before decarbing then allowing a time decarb'. You would get more of the terpenes that way right?

 

[Moe.Red]

That will b interesting indeed, have you read that adding malodextrin makes edibles work faster? I'm also wondering about doing fresh extract before decarbing then allowing a time decarb'. You would get more of the terpenes that way right?

Not necessarily. Terpenes - by their very nature as molecules, don't like to live long lives. Some are far more suicidal than others, but they are not "one thing" that you can put a general statement around like that.

For the most part, the only way I have found to sustain terpenoids long term is freeze drying, vacuum sealing and re-freezing. The bottom of a chest freezer undisturbed, if storing long term, is the best. Then pull it out and make your extraction fresh. Problem is still decarbing. And most people don't have those tools handy.

The only way I have found to maintain terpenes in an edible product is to either mixed a portion of the un-decarbed extract back into the end product (those cannabinoids will be "inactive" acid forms but terpenes are unmolested) or to replace them with a product like True Terpenes.

But I would argue why bother trying to save terps when making edibles? What percentage of {insert your terpene of choice} actually makes it past the stomach acid to enter the bloodstream intact? I'll bet you could count it on one hand and may actually be zero. And you only had 2% terpenes in the edible to begin with if you have spectacular weed and are relentless with your extraction quality.

If you want to eat these terpenes, I suggest you do it in earnest. If you want the citrus ones, eat the fruit. A ton of terps are shared between weed and hops, so have a giant glass of lemonade and drink an IPA beer or something really hoppy. You can look up whatever terp you are after and steer a meal to get a massive qty, not the paltry shit that comes out of a bud.

But no, I would not personally use time as a decarb method where my goal was terpenoid retention.

 

[Milson]

That will b interesting indeed, have you read that adding malodextrin makes edibles work faster?

I am fairly sure lecithin helps edible uptake time. I haven't double blind tested it, but anecdotally from someone who makes a lot of edibles, if lecithin gets forgotten in the recipe i will notice. Like if my wife forgets, i think i notice.

 

[Moe.Red]

So I thought I would post a little about my findings experimenting with THCV isolate. I'm not nearly as good at describing my feelings as some of you growers, so cut me some slack, I'm a typical you know, white male in the US and feelings are to be buried down deep, so...

First, what I am trying to achieve is to bring back the results from a long gone plant from a while ago that helped me tremendously. Not only did that Durban Poison lift me up and make me feel like I was well caffeinated, but it also zapped my knee and back pain. Truck accident many moons ago and some acute damage was a pain point I had dealt with for years. Going up and down stairs was laborious. This was when I was really new at growing and I totally hit the lottery with that plant. The result was a busy little beaver with no pain that paved the way for the creation of my basement lab and the thousands of trips up and down the stairs carrying heavy shit to build it. Amazeballs.

Fast forward a few years

Attempting to duplicate this, I set out on a search for that same pheno, and for THCV rich strains. Takes forever, from the time you order seeds until you get a result might be 6 months. And ultimately I struck out. Tried a few different strains, tried pushing those strains with longer flowers, different lights and environmentals, etc. That stuff has been documented along the way.

Right now I am growing a few things that should be promising, but no guarantees, and there are some other data points I have picked up along the way that I want to share.

As you have seen earlier in this thread, I bought some THCV isolate. I have tested it and confirm it is real. So what to do? First thing is to put a little chunk on a bud and light up. Then a little bigger. Then bigger still. Then small amounts more often. Change out the bud for a different strain and repeat.

It is not the same.

First, the pain part of the equation is pretty much untouched by THCV. So the pain management was something in the plant. Dammit.

Second, I feel like the effects are, I dunno, stronger? If I use a good size chunk, I get jittery, heart rate goes up, mind races. I imagine this is what cocaine feels like. If my wife comes and taps on my shoulder when I am focused on the screen, I literally jump. This is abnormal for me. Not a fan.

I also feel like the duration is way too short. At least compared to this standard in my mind of what it should be.

I have attempted to make a cocktail of weed and cannabinoids, even adding some terpenes, but I have yet to duplicate. But if you look at the math problem of trying all these things, the numbers are not in my favor.



OK hard stop. Regroup. Is my perceived goal even real. YES! I lost 50 pounds and look at the completed lab - that happened. No skewing the data can erase those results. Possibly some placebo or romanticizing my lost first love Durban, but I don't think so. Remembering that feeling is still very clear to me.

So what was it? Has to be entourage and the proper ratios of cannabinoids and I assume terpenes as well. Right?

I'm going to keep on this while my plants are growing and my fingers stay crossed, but I need to try something different.

@Skeptik has had good success with edibles. If going for weight loss, this makes a ton of sense. This post is already too long, but if someone wants to dive into the science of why, I have some thoughts and data. But I also believe (bad word when testing, I know, but I can't help it) that the pain side of this will need to be separated out from the hunger side and just eat THCV and monitor hunger. If it helps with pain, great, but I'm good with just managing weight with this if I can figure out how. Truth is, the more weight I lose, the less knees and back hurt anyhow.

So, this 3 day weekend I am trying something new. Edibles with THCV are on the menu. I have no idea what the dose should be, how often, or if it will work at all, but that's what I am trying next. I'm open to ideas from any of you edible experts out there.


So in summary - THCV in large qty is not a pain reliever, but it does effect appetite. It also has the side effect of making me jumpy and wired, almost impulsive, but I remain clear headed even with THC in the mix. Not a fan. I'm continuing to work the problem but as of right now, I cannot claim any sort of victory. I have a ton more thoughts on all this if anyone is interested, but that is the result to date.

 

[Milson]

I have a lot of thoughts, but first: what did the Durban taste like?

 

[Moe.Red]

I have a lot of thoughts, but first: what did the Durban taste like?

smooth, earthy, maybe nutty? I've thought about this a ton, and I just don't remember clearly enough to be certain.

 

[Skeptik]

First, in my humble view, thinking you're going to test so many variables concurrently will lead to insanity. For the computer science savvy among you, it becomes an N-P complete problem in short order, and add in the qualitative nature of the effects we're looking for, the results become questionable, at best, without a lot of cash and test subjects.

I'm of the mind that with your distillates, you have the materials you need to figure this out in a reasonable time frame if you back into the problem rather than trying to figure out exactly what's going on. For one, if you know a strain that "does it for you", buy more of those seeds and do a pheno search for effects. Once you have the effects you want, THEN is an excellent time for TLC to try to figure out the ratios of the various components that do the trick, and then you're golden.

My other suggestion is to identify a strain you like -- maybe a 1:1 THC/CBD -- and add in your THCV distillate in a managed ratio to see how different ratios affect strength and duration of the appetite management.

If we were armed with appropriate scientific research on the various components in cannabis, we'd have a more substantial foundation for how they work together, but since real research is only beginning to get funding, we're pretty much at the observation stage, so a simpler, shotgun approach with basic hypotheses to narrow the variability is a path to progress without getting stuck in a quagmire.

 

[BorealCuring]

smooth, earthy, maybe nutty? I've thought about this a ton, and I just don't remember clearly enough to be certain.

I always have a hard time describing weed smell or taste. I've only been able to do it three times.

1. Boreal Lights smells like a pine tree you just cut down.
2. Sluricane I scored in NY tasted like a skunk sprayed you in the mouth. Nasty.
3. Lemonade smelled like a Lemon Pie tastes. It had a seed so I'm growing it out this year.

 

[Moe.Red]

First, in my humble view, thinking you're going to test so many variables concurrently will lead to insanity. For the computer science savvy among you, it becomes an N-P complete problem in short order, and add in the qualitative nature of the effects we're looking for, the results become questionable, at best, without a lot of cash and test subjects.

Agreed. Trillions of combinations, I need a short cut.

I'm of the mind that with your distillates, you have the materials you need to figure this out in a reasonable time frame if you back into the problem rather than trying to figure out exactly what's going on. For one, if you know a strain that "does it for you", buy more of those seeds and do a pheno search for effects. Once you have the effects you want, THEN is an excellent time for TLC to try to figure out the ratios of the various components that do the trick, and then you're golden.

That's what's happening concurrently. I have a very nice Durban tree halfway thru flower right now that is the last seed from the pack that lit me on fire. But of the 10 seeds in the pack, only 1 of the 9 so far produced results. I took clones just in case...

My other suggestion is to identify a strain you like -- maybe a 1:1 THC/CBD -- and add in your THCV distillate in a managed ratio to see how different ratios affect strength and duration of the appetite management.

Yeah, that's kinda what I have been doing the last couple weeks.

If we were armed with appropriate scientific research on the various components in cannabis, we'd have a more substantial foundation for how they work together, but since real research is only beginning to get funding, we're pretty much at the observation stage, so a simpler, shotgun approach with basic hypotheses to narrow the variability is a path to progress without getting stuck in a quagmire.

That's me!

 

[Milson]

smooth, earthy, maybe nutty? I've thought about this a ton, and I just don't remember clearly enough to be certain.

Right okay. That's enough. There are Durban cuts out there with loud limonene. Doubt that will help with pain.

What you are describing sounds more like what I would think of as being associated with pain relief, personally.

I forget, do you have CBG to play with?

 

[Moe.Red]

Right okay. That's enough. There are Durban cuts out there with loud limonene. Doubt that will help with pain.

What you are describing sounds more like what I would think of as being associated with pain relief, personally.

I forget, do you have CBG to play with?

Yes I do. And that white widow in the UV testing thread has ton of limonene to play with soon. I tried a bit uncured a couple days ago and it was nothing like I remembered but tasted like a dog shit on the flower bed.

 

[Brendanpre]

I'm not sure if this will help or if it's just a recipe to get really wrecked, but have you tried the thcv isolate with a heavy indica? I know it's taking this a different direction because real Durban Poison is VERY sativa, but those heavy indicas are good for pain and quite sedative. I can't help but wonder if this might help the wired, jitteriness and address the pain part too?

Maybe that real Durban is so special because she is a sativa that somehow produces a profile that we would normally expect from something more indica with the added zing of thcv?

I don't know, I'm pretty baked at the moment, does this make sense?

 

[Moe.Red]

What you are describing sounds more like what I would think of as being associated with pain relief, personally.

Yes I need to work on mentally separating pain from hunger. But I think they are intertwined.

When pain and hunger collide; psychological influences on differences in brain activity during physiological and non-physiological gastric distension - PubMed

Functional neuroimaging has been used extensively in conjunction with gastric balloon distension in an attempt to unravel the relationship between the brain, regulation of hunger, satiety, and food intake tolerance. A number of researchers have also adopted a more physiological approach using...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The authors suggest deactivation of the pain neuromatrix during nutrient infusion serves as a prerequisite for tolerance of normal meal volumes in health.

 

[Moe.Red]

I'm not sure if this will help or if it's just a recipe to get really wrecked, but have you tried the thcv isolate with a heavy indica? I know it's taking this a different direction because real Durban Poison is VERY sativa, but those heavy indicas are good for pain and quite sedative. I can't help but wonder if this might help the wired, jitteriness and address the pain part too?

Maybe that real Durban is so special because she is a sativa that somehow produces a profile that we would normally expect from something more indica with the added zing of thcv?

I don't know, I'm pretty baked at the moment, does this make sense?

That is an interesting take.

I suppose I should let go a little but I’m really not a fan of getting baked. I guess that’s why I loved that Durban so much it was so mild.