Frankster's Diagnostic Helpline; post your problem child here.

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Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
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Frankster,If I check my tea with a nitrate Test strip will that give me a ballpark reading on my nitrogen con tent? In other words, is nitrogen a nitrate? Thanks
I've got the master kit; and I've done some periodic test; and nitrates are certainly the ones that are in play yes. I don't really use it that much; because I go more by pH and what the plants are speaking to me. But I keep it around incase I come up with any ideas; and for periodic tracking purpose.
Test kit


Both nitrate ions and ammonium ions can be taken up by plants (some prefer one to the other). These ions provide nitrogen for the plant to make its own amino acids for protein synthesis; creating chlorophyll... Plants can absorb nitrogen either in the nitrate form (NO3-) or the ammonium form (NH4+). The total uptake of nitrogen usually consists of a combination of these two forms.

The ratio of ammonium-to-nitrate affects both plants and the soil or grow medium. For optimal uptake and growth, each plant species requires a different ammonium-to-nitrate ratio. The correct ratio also varies with temperature, growth stage, pH in the root zone and soil/grow medium properties.

To understand how temperature affects plants’ abilities to metabolize the different forms of nitrogen, first we need to understand the different ways these two nutrient forms are metabolized by plants. When plants metabolize ammonium, more oxygen is consumed than with nitrate.

Ammonium is metabolized in the roots, where it reacts with sugars. These sugars have to be delivered from their production site in the leaves down to the roots. On the other hand, nitrate is transported up to the leaves, where it is reduced to ammonium and then reacts with sugars.

At higher temperatures, plants’ respiration is increased, consuming sugars faster and making them less available for ammonium metabolism in the roots. At the same time, at high temperatures, the oxygen solubility in water is decreased, making it less available as well. Therefore, at higher temperatures, applying less ammonium is advisable.

At lower temperatures, ammonium nutrition is a more appropriate choice, because oxygen and sugars are more available at the root level. In addition, since transport of nitrate to the leaves is restricted at low temperatures, basing a fertilization program on this form of nitrogen will delay plant growth.

Electrical balance in the root cells must be maintained, so for each positively charged ion that is taken up, a positively charged ion is released and the same is true for negatively charged ions. When the plant takes up ammonium, it releases a proton. An increase in protons around the roots decreases the pH. Alternatively, when the plant takes up nitrate it releases bicarbonate (HCO3-), which increases the pH around the roots. Therefore, we can safely conclude that nitrate uptake increases pH around the roots while uptake of ammonium decreases it.

This phenomenon is especially important in soilless media, where the roots may easily affect the grow medium’s pH because their volume is relatively large compared with the medium’s volume. To prevent the grow medium’s pH from rapidly changing, we should keep an appropriate ammonium-to-nitrate ratio, according to the cultivar, temperature and the growing stage.

Under certain conditions, the pH may not respond as expected due to nitrification (conversion of ammonium into nitrate by bacteria in the soil). Nitrification is a rapid process, and the added ammonium may be quickly converted and absorbed as nitrate, increasing pH in the root zone instead of decreasing it.

Other Nutrients

Ammonium is a cation (positively charged ion), so it competes with other cations such as potassium, calcium and magnesium for uptake by the roots. An unbalanced fertilization program, with ammonium content that is too high, might result in calcium and magnesium deficiencies, while potassium uptake is less affected by the competition.
 
Oldchucky

Oldchucky

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Thanks Frankster. I’m trying to concoct 150 gallons of soil from used grow the last few years. Used OF. Just today I added a few bags of chicken manure and boy does it smell like ammonia. L O L. Also adding kelp, lime, gypsum, bloodmeal, bonemeal, and maybe more manure of some kind.Azomite also. Though it may be too late for the azomite To break down. Going to let it all mellow for at least two months. Kind of trying to replicate a recipe I saw in an old thread by Humboldt local. Growing in a furnace so you elaborating on the temperature affects is appreciated.
 
Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
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Thanks Frankster. I’m trying to concoct 150 gallons of soil from used grow the last few years. Used OF. Just today I added a few bags of chicken manure and boy does it smell like ammonia. L O L. Also adding kelp, lime, gypsum, bloodmeal, bonemeal, and maybe more manure of some kind.Azomite also. Though it may be too late for the azomite To break down. Going to let it all mellow for at least two months. Kind of trying to replicate a recipe I saw in an old thread by Humboldt local. Growing in a furnace so you elaborating on the temperature affects is appreciated.
I would keep bundles hottest soil in your big pile; then get yourself maybe a half hot pile (50%); and a quarter hot pile (25%)....

That way you can start out your seeds or whatever in the less hot; using something like a solo cup; and double your heat; when up potting your plants.... Double the heat each time... Or something along those lines... It's probably the best strategy with chicken shit; or anything else that runs hot. I think your going to like that substrate; you just need to work up too it; a bit. IMO.
 
PsillyRabbitOG

PsillyRabbitOG

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Hello Frankster, I am 90 days into a veg cycle. I am starting to get some leaves that are showing signs of trouble.
I kind of think the plant is just naturally starting to drop some leaves due to its age. My PH is 6.44 so far it has been less than 10 leaves total to show a color less than ideal.
My RH is low ( dont know it) and I have a large oscillating fan blowing on them while LEDs are on. I included a picture of the whole plant ( you can kind of make out the leaf from the first pic at the bottom ) and a close up of the rest of the leaves.
Any input is appreciated.Thank you for your time.
 
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Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
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Hello Frankster, I am 90 days into a veg cycle. I am starting to get some leaves that are showing signs of trouble.
I kind of think the plant is just naturally starting to drop some leaves due to its age. My PH is 6.44 so far it has been less than 10 leaves total to show a color less than ideal.
My RH is low ( dont know it) and I have a large oscillating fan blowing on them while LEDs are on. I included a picture of the whole plant ( you can kind of make out the leaf from the first pic at the bottom ) and a close up of the rest of the leaves.
Any input is appreciated.Thank you for your time.


Looks good and healthy enough; anything holding you back from flipping? 90 days is an awful long time for veg... I would give it the whirl. 😁
Stick it in the dark for 13->24 hours; and then 12/12...
 
Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
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Thats a story for a differnt thread. Basically growing a celebration tree to be planted on 4/20 (weather permitting). With such a long time still to go I wanted to make sure that leaf wasn't' a sign of a bigger problem.
I think what we often see is that as plants age; those fans get bigger and bigger; and darker and darker..... I think focusing on the top or newer growth is where you want to mainly focus for a clear snapshot of general health at any given point in time.

That said; I hear it's best to try and keep the plant a certain middle shade of green. Not too light; not too dark. Older leaves seem to always darken over time.

I'm not 100% sure; but either some of that saggy well defined leave structure is either partly genetic or from lite light stress... (say that 3 times) 🤣 Ie. some of the fans get sun wrinkles somewhat like an old farmer.... ie. UV damage.

Sun
 
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N

Nugbutabi

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Does anyone know what this is ? been growing for a while just started happening to me all I see on the forums is ph issues , light, environment and bugs but none of that’s the issue here no bugs, my vpd is on point, using 630 cmh at 85% growing in coco using h&g coco a and b at 2.5 ec no cal/mag supplement, phd at 5.8 run off ph is 6.0, there’s light twisting and curling on some growth no tip burn no ph swings I can’t figure it out new growth is super light I thought it was magnesium But I’ve never had any issues with deficiencies in veg some leaves will only grow 3 blades some purpling and red streaking on stems been chasing it for a while now trying a few different things nothing so far over health just doesn’t look great it’s lighter toward the stem of the leaves and darkens down the leaf don’t wanna keep adding shit if I’m causing lock outs
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GoblinSmasher

GoblinSmasher

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Hey @Frankster
Had a question i wanted to ask you:

I got seedlings in soil in egg carton.
Gonna transplant to bigger pot in a few days. Curious if the carton should be separated or if its okay to bring it into next transplant. I dont know if roots will break through it. Probably if its all under soil.

Thanks in advance
 
sambapati

sambapati

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Hey @Frankster
Had a question i wanted to ask you:

I got seedlings in soil in egg carton.
Gonna transplant to bigger pot in a few days. Curious if the carton should be separated or if its okay to bring it into next transplant. I dont know if roots will break through it. Probably if its all under soil.

Thanks in advance
How about carefully slice the egg carton bottoms with a box cutter -- allowing those roots a for sure place to go?
 
Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
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Does anyone know what this is ? been growing for a while just started happening to me all I see on the forums is ph issues , light, environment and bugs but none of that’s the issue here no bugs, my vpd is on point, using 630 cmh at 85% growing in coco using h&g coco a and b at 2.5 ec no cal/mag supplement, phd at 5.8 run off ph is 6.0, there’s light twisting and curling on some growth no tip burn no ph swings I can’t figure it out new growth is super light I thought it was magnesium But I’ve never had any issues with deficiencies in veg some leaves will only grow 3 blades some purpling and red streaking on stems been chasing it for a while now trying a few different things nothing so far over health just doesn’t look great it’s lighter toward the stem of the leaves and darkens down the leaf don’t wanna keep adding shit if I’m causing lock outs
View attachment 1220366
It's certainly got the Characteristics of some beginning forms of nutrient imbalance; or perhaps some sort of lighting sensitivity... Or simply some sort of genetic ppm intolerance I notice with some strains over others. The darker green in the tips indicates that photosynthesis is continuing into the older leaves; and your seeing malformation in the newer growth at the base. I do see very obvious light stress...

It could be slight pH even; but that's just a stab in the dark really. My best guess is primarily light; or that some light stress brought on by some sort of EC or nutrient ratio's instability.... I think of growth like this along the lines of basically choke points.... and when certain choke points occur, when you've got other factors plugging along at high output; you get a sort of cascading failure of sorts.... One of those chicken or egg things; that's difficult to decipher. If I was going to guess a nutrient; I would almost say very early sulfur; possibly... Or one of the micros. But again; guessing.

When I see things like that; my first thoughts would be to pull back the ppm a bit; check the pH; and dial back the lights a tad. Check all parameters; temps; humidity; ect.... cause something got out of line; then created this bottleneck.... Could have been something as benign as low temps, TBH.
 
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Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
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Hey @Frankster
Had a question i wanted to ask you:

I got seedlings in soil in egg carton.
Gonna transplant to bigger pot in a few days. Curious if the carton should be separated or if its okay to bring it into next transplant. I dont know if roots will break through it. Probably if its all under soil.

Thanks in advance
I would personally transplant them out; after the roots have bunched up sufficient; once the roots are bound up a bit, you can simply remove the outside; and it should be pretty sturdy. if some of the carton is on there that shouldn't matter either; just taking care to preserve the root mass as much as possible. You can even tear it a little if it's wet during transplant; so it's got a way of growing though it, it just needs to get a start...

The real key IMO; is making a sufficiently dense root ball before replanting again.
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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I would personally transplant them out; after the roots have bunched up sufficient; once the roots are bound up a bit, you can simply remove the outside; and it should be pretty sturdy. if some of the carton is on there that shouldn't matter either; just taking care to preserve the root mass as much as possible. You can even tear it a little if it's wet during transplant; so it's got a way of growing though it, it just needs to get a start...

The real key IMO; is making a sufficiently dense root ball before replanting again.

Its better like you say to have enough roots to hold the soil in place before up potting imho. I keep hearing terms like transplant shock but if you don't shock your plants when transplanting there is no shock, just more room to expand into for the roots...With enough root mass to hold the soil a pre made hole with pre moistened soil maybe some root hormones or Mycos and gently into the hole....pat into place & water/ feed to seat that help the roots bind to the new soil....Where's the shock.....?
 
Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
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Its better like you say to have enough roots to hold the soil in place before up potting imho. I keep hearing terms like transplant shock but if you don't shock your plants when transplanting there is no shock, just more room to expand into for the roots...With enough root mass to hold the soil a pre made hole with pre moistened soil maybe some root hormones or Mycos and gently into the hole....pat into place & water/ feed to seat that help the roots bind to the new soil....Where's the shock.....?
Agreed.... The only part I would add is that great care needs to be used (at first) with the new up-potting directing slowly fed fluids to that center bunch area... Because that's going to become the natural dry spot; so to speak; as the plant sucks up fluids; and expands it's roots again.... Usually takes a few days, to a week or so to get sufficiently spread out again...

The surrounding area will remain much more highly drainable and not as critical, as ensuring saturation in the center zone. At least for the first several days, anyhow....

As plants age; I take great care at maintaining the drain ability flow of the center root bunch. Sometimes "scrunching" the pots.... feeding them slowly ie. a 1->2 pints at a time, wait a few sec... then again; over and over....(in a saucer with an elevated drip pad) If they become plugged or too blocked up by excessive fertilizer or salts... I hit them with enzymes, or RAW Yucca Extract Schidigera Saponin Powder Wet Betty 1/4 tsp per gallon... ie. my hydrophilic spongy root pH balanced reset button.

Flowering regime creates hydrophobic buildup (phosphates) that needs periodic removal
maintence; so root hairs can reconnect w/available nutrient for uptake...

Roots
 
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PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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Agreed.... The only part I would add is that great care needs to be used (at first) with the new up-potting directing slowly fed fluids to that center bunch area... Because that's going to become the natural dry spot; so to speak; as the plant sucks up fluids; and expands it's roots again.... Usually takes a few days, to a week or so to get sufficiently spread out again...

The surrounding area will remain much more highly drainable and not as critical, as ensuring saturation in the center zone. At least for the first several days, anyhow....

As plants age; I take great care at maintaining the drain ability flow of the center root bunch. Sometimes "scrunching" the pots.... feeding them slowly ie. a 1->2 pints at a time, wait a few sec... then again; over and over....(in a saucer with an elevated drip pad) If they become plugged or too blocked up by excessive fertilizer or salts... I hit them with enzymes, or RAW Yucca Extract Schidigera Saponin Powder Wet Betty 1/4 tsp per gallon... ie. my hydrophilic spongy root pH balanced reset button.

Flowering regime creates hydrophobic buildup (phosphates) that needs periodic removal
maintence; so root hairs can reconnect w/available nutrient for uptake...

View attachment 1223400
Very nice I don't get anything like that but I would have up potted before it got to that point. I'm surprised you have your hand on the roots.....I was always led to believe that's a no no transferring bugs from me to the roots. I've always tried to keep my mitts off the roots........a pain in the ass sometimes in transplanting gently but I've never grabbed a hold of the mass like that......I'm just paranoid I guess.😃😃
 
J

Jjjmm56

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3
I’m going into week 9 of flower and am getting brown spots on my upper flowers. Lower seem fine. Been flushing with water 6-6.5 ph. I also noticed today, water day, that my pot is still heavy. It’s always light on water day.
 
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CannaDana

CannaDana

201
93
I’m going into week 9 of flower and am getting brown spots on my upper flowers. Lower seem fine. Been flushing with water 6-6.5 ph. I also noticed today, water day, that my pot is still heavy. It’s always light on water day.
That bottom pic looks like the beginnings of botrytis, to me. Curious what @Frankster will say.
 
J

Jjjmm56

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3
It’s just on the upper buds. I’m growing in a small area and I know my light is too close. I moved it outside to see if it helps.
 
steamroller

steamroller

1,815
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When buds are finishing they will not drink as much as before .
If accurately observed it can be a indicator .
 
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