Using Silica - what's the real scoop? Contradictory info everywhere

[Aqua Man]

So if im using 50% perlite to coco will it break down slightly releasing silicon dioxide to plants?

The perlite? I couldn’t answer that but I doubt it would be of any significant benefit

 

[E9noxis]

I added one cup of potassium silicate to my 18 to 20 gallons of soil mix. I haven't tried it in there yet. I figure because it takes time to break down, it's should be good in soil

 

[E9noxis]

Just realized I already said it. It felt familiar but I didn't check until after.

Sorry

 

[Blastfact]

I was so glad the wife found my diatomaceous earth the other day. As I posted earlier in this thread I've been using NPK/RAW Silica, which is stupid expensive DE and Mad Farmer Silica that is Potassium Silicate. Man as soon as I had the DE back in my hands 1/3 cup each went right into the current grow No. 5 nursery pots mixed in best as possible and watered in. Then I mixed in a 1/2 cup each in a new grow I've popped seeds for in No. 7 nursery pots. The stuff does everything you have read in this thread. I've heard for years and years it will make your buds hard as ball bearings,,, will ruin your grinder on and on and on. And I've never seen this claims one time. Will it make your buds denser,,,, yes,,, but just a tad. And yes it will make your plant structure stronger. And nutrient will flow better through the plants structure because of it. And it's great for killing gnats and other critters that want to breed in your soil. They die the death of a 1000 cuts. I've used DE as a foliar spray to kill mites and leaf living and eating bugs on the underside of leaves, stems and stalks. I use the Mad Farmer and a few other brands as a foliar nute spray only from early veg through early mid flower. Being careful to keep it off the buds once the button buds are on. Just hitting the larger fan leaves. Where I find it most beneficial are leggy wild girl Sativas. They can get really long legged, weak and wispy. I've seen them split there main stalk from the top to the root ball,,, all sorts of goofy stuff. I've also seen them reject silica. But it they like it,,, big improvements can be had in plant stability and strength. The big bag that looks like a bag of cocaine is never leaving the office again... :)

 

[testiclees]

I mix silica, then calmag, then nutes. I never wait an hour. The results are obvious; stronger stems. I stop using silica around week 7 flower. I don't use humic acid, studies show it significantly decreases thc.

 

[testiclees]

I mix silica, then calmag, then nutes. I never wait an hour. The results are obvious; stronger stems. I stop using silica around week 7 flower. I don't use humic acid, studies show it significantly decreases thc.

Ive seen one study that showed humic acid reduces thc. If you check out the materials and method section it looks like they applied a lg dose of humates every watering. This practice far exceeded label rates.

 

[Madmax]

Got a link to the paper @growsince79 @testiclees

 

[Peat_Phreak]

This study makes a different conclusion

New Study Shows Fulvic Acid Accelerates Cannabis Growth Without Sacrificing Potency

A recent study in Michigan indicates that cannabis grown hydroponically, with the use of fulvic acid as a mineral supplement, will yield about 21 percent more plant material without sacrificing the cannabinoid potency of the plants. At the conclusion of a 12-week experiment conducted by AgTonik...

www.agtonik.com

 

[testiclees]

Got a link to the paper @growsince79 @testiclees

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2019.00736/full.


From a thread on rollitup

Mar 2, 2021
#47
@BILL Dillows this scientist (below) also references the possible over application of humate.





MESSAGE FROM Dr,. Sarah, PhD, chief soil scientist at MicraCulture.


Screenshot_20210302-150006.png
Hey Rudy,

Thanks for getting in touch and sharing this research. I had not seen this study before, so it is always nice to have new information brought to my attention.
We are so limited on the availability of scientifically sound studies on cannabinoids due to the classification of it as a restricted substance in so many parts of the world still. But it does seem to be improving, so that is encouraging.

Regarding your concern for humic acids in Plant Probiotics. First, yes we do add some humic acid, derived from Leonardite. We have found in our studies (and building on the heaps of peer reviewed published literature) that having it in our mixture increases the functioning of our microbes significantly. But it is really interesting that Bernstein et al found that it did have an effect on the cannabinoid content of THC! That is definitely concerning, and I am curious to see more data come out about this.
Although, honestly, I do not believe that if we were to replicate this experiment using the concentrations and application schedule we prescribe for Plant Probiotics (we suggest applying every 2 weeks or once a month and in this experiment they applied daily!), we would see any significant changes in cannabinoid content. I think drowning a plant in any substance would cause negative effects on it! Moderation is key!
And the professional growers that have worked Plant Probiotics into their growing regimen have only sent us praise on the effects on their cannabis - I would expect that would not be the case if there were significant negative effects from the HAs.
Additionally, the incredible number of studies showing the beneficial effects of including humic acid when growing plants other than cannabis further convinces me that it is worth including.

But I will keep my finger on the pulse of this to see if any further studies do come out or if these results are replicated. Very interesting!

Let me know if you have any questions about my off the cuff thoughts.

Take care Radiant Rudy,

Sarah

 

[GrimReffer]

I use mammoth silica and definitely see a difference in size of stems and stalk. I have been told to always add it first but I have done first and last and seen no difference.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I use mammoth silica and definitely see a difference in size of stems and stalk. I have been told to always add it first but I have done first and last and seen no difference.

I use silica (potassium silicate) up until about mid flower and then I switch to a potassium sulfate based sweetener as the bud stacks begin to fatten up. I do it this way based on what I've read. Apparently there's a lot of studies conflicting each other.

I always mix the silica in my water first, stir and wait. I use filtered water so next is cal mag or epsom salts. I stir and wait ... and then I add Roots Organic "Microbe Blast" and aerate for 24 hrs prior to use. I don't add anything else to this mix and I alternate this mix with Roots Organic Terp Teas every other week outside and every other watering inside.

I believe the silica makes a big difference in the plant's hardiness but I have no experience using it from start to finish in a grow to comment on how well that routine works.

 

[Madmax]

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2019.00736/full.


From a thread on rollitup

Mar 2, 2021
#47
@BILL Dillows this scientist (below) also references the possible over application of humate.





MESSAGE FROM Dr,. Sarah, PhD, chief soil scientist at MicraCulture.


Screenshot_20210302-150006.png
Hey Rudy,

Thanks for getting in touch and sharing this research. I had not seen this study before, so it is always nice to have new information brought to my attention.
We are so limited on the availability of scientifically sound studies on cannabinoids due to the classification of it as a restricted substance in so many parts of the world still. But it does seem to be improving, so that is encouraging.

Regarding your concern for humic acids in Plant Probiotics. First, yes we do add some humic acid, derived from Leonardite. We have found in our studies (and building on the heaps of peer reviewed published literature) that having it in our mixture increases the functioning of our microbes significantly. But it is really interesting that Bernstein et al found that it did have an effect on the cannabinoid content of THC! That is definitely concerning, and I am curious to see more data come out about this.
Although, honestly, I do not believe that if we were to replicate this experiment using the concentrations and application schedule we prescribe for Plant Probiotics (we suggest applying every 2 weeks or once a month and in this experiment they applied daily!), we would see any significant changes in cannabinoid content. I think drowning a plant in any substance would cause negative effects on it! Moderation is key!
And the professional growers that have worked Plant Probiotics into their growing regimen have only sent us praise on the effects on their cannabis - I would expect that would not be the case if there were significant negative effects from the HAs.
Additionally, the incredible number of studies showing the beneficial effects of including humic acid when growing plants other than cannabis further convinces me that it is worth including.

But I will keep my finger on the pulse of this to see if any further studies do come out or if these results are replicated. Very interesting!

Let me know if you have any questions about my off the cuff thoughts.

Take care Radiant Rudy,

Sarah

Thanks man..good read..

 

[Madmax]

Wtf lol..where'd that come from

 

[testiclees]

I found that this talk had legit scientific research and discussion regarding silica and plant health

 

[ExNavyInSTL]

I recently switched from Stout MSA to Front Row Si from the company Front Row Ag.

Mainly, I was impressed that they claimed 10% mono-silicic acid, whereas Stout MSA and Power Si are "supposedly" less than 2%. I'm going from memory here, so I apologize if either of those is higher.

What really impressed me was the dose ... Reservoir: 0.13 - 0.5 ML/Gal. This was incredibly less than Stout, which is 5ml/Gal. Stout is much cheaper by the quart, but nowhere near the value.

Here's my thinking, if we split the difference and say the dose for Front Row is 0.25 ml (from 0.13 - 0.5ml):

A quart of Stout MSA has 946 ml or makes 189 gallons @ 5ml/G (946 ÷ 5 = 189).
My last purchase of Stout MSA was $24/qt (delivered from Till & Root), or $0.13 per gallon (24 ÷ 189 = 0.1269) when using 5.0 ml/G.

I purchased this Front Row Si for $92 (delivered cost). 946ml/0.250ml = 3784 gallons of solution or $0.03 per gallon (rounded up).
Even if you go the maximum at 0.5 ml per gallon you still get 1892 gallons or about $0.05 per gallon.

To take this one step further, let's throw Power Si into this mix.

I've never bought it, so I will compare it to an Amazon purchase. One liter costs $158.53 (delivered via Prime). From their dose charts, they say 0.5ml for the original formula.
So, at $158.53 for 1000ml (1 liter) it looks like you get 2000 gallons (1000 x 0.5). This comes out to about $0.08 a gallon.

I get it, dropping a century note on a bottle of nutes is hard to stomach. Then there's the risk my product will become ineffective before I can even finish the bottle.

Mainly, I just wanted to share my thought stream when I started researching silica. I knew for sure that I did NOT want a version that wasn't immediately available to the roots. Meaning, nothing other than mono-silicic acid. I am not an organic grower, so waiting for a microbe to poop out the plant-happy form is just not a priority for my style of growing.

 

[tobh]

I recently switched from Stout MSA to Front Row Si from the company Front Row Ag.

Mainly, I was impressed that they claimed 10% mono-silicic acid, whereas Stout MSA and Power Si are "supposedly" less than 2%. I'm going from memory here, so I apologize if either of those is higher.

What really impressed me was the dose ... Reservoir: 0.13 - 0.5 ML/Gal. This was incredibly less than Stout, which is 5ml/Gal. Stout is much cheaper by the quart, but nowhere near the value.

Here's my thinking, if we split the difference and say the dose for Front Row is 0.25 ml (from 0.13 - 0.5ml):

A quart of Stout MSA has 946 ml or makes 189 gallons @ 5ml/G (946 ÷ 5 = 189).
My last purchase of Stout MSA was $24/qt (delivered from Till & Root), or $0.13 per gallon (24 ÷ 189 = 0.1269) when using 5.0 ml/G.

I purchased this Front Row Si for $92 (delivered cost). 946ml/0.250ml = 3784 gallons of solution or $0.03 per gallon (rounded up).
Even if you go the maximum at 0.5 ml per gallon you still get 1892 gallons or about $0.05 per gallon.

To take this one step further, let's throw Power Si into this mix.

I've never bought it, so I will compare it to an Amazon purchase. One liter costs $158.53 (delivered via Prime). From their dose charts, they say 0.5ml for the original formula.
So, at $158.53 for 1000ml (1 liter) it looks like you get 2000 gallons (1000 x 0.5). This comes out to about $0.08 a gallon.

I get it, dropping a century note on a bottle of nutes is hard to stomach. Then there's the risk my product will become ineffective before I can even finish the bottle.

Mainly, I just wanted to share my thought stream when I started researching silica. I knew for sure that I did NOT want a version that wasn't immediately available to the roots. Meaning, nothing other than mono-silicic acid. I am not an organic grower, so waiting for a microbe to poop out the plant-happy form is just not a priority for my style of growing.

View attachment 1262838View attachment 1262840View attachment 1262841

i used front row ag's two part nutes, been seriously considering switching to their si formulation simply because power si is so damn thick and i've had consistent issues with it precipitating out even with just my starting water. it's clogged up my in line filter a handful of times as well, so I don't think it's really ever dissolving even if I pH the water down to 6 before adding the si like someone recommended. based off your math i'm assuming you like the product? if it's comparable to their other gear, i'm sure it's top notch.

 

[ExNavyInSTL]

based off your math i'm assuming you like the product? if it's comparable to their other gear, i'm sure it's top notch.

At this point, it is only math. I haven't grown with it. I bought it with 2 plants waiting for amber. Meaning, that it's too late to add to that grow. However, I have 2 seedlings that are about to begin their life with it. I'm doing the Real Grower's Challenge using only Grow Dots as the nutes with a promise to use Recharge along the way. I intend to also supplement with silica (Front Row) and a fulvic acid (Mr. Fulvic).

 

[AirHammer]

Silica is an essential element not very available in many soil types that are well suited for mj. Its essential towards optimal plant health and strength. I never got powdery mildew again, since introducing it a few years ago. I won't grow without the stuff again, it became one of my nutrient staples.

 

[MartyMcFly42oh]

At this point, it is only math. I haven't grown with it. I bought it with 2 plants waiting for amber. Meaning, that it's too late to add to that grow. However, I have 2 seedlings that are about to begin their life with it. I'm doing the Real Grower's Challenge using only Grow Dots as the nutes with a promise to use Recharge along the way. I intend to also supplement with silica (Front Row) and a fulvic acid (Mr. Fulvic).

Are you going to do a grow diary to document the real growers challenge? I’m a recharge user but haven’t tried grow dots yet, I’d like to see the results.

 

[ExNavyInSTL]

Are you going to do a grow diary to document the real growers challenge? I’m a recharge user but haven’t tried grow dots yet, I’d like to see the results.

Yes, for sure. I have one started on GrowDiaries.com, but I will add to it here. They are in such a seedling stage, I'm waiting to fire up my photography.

I'm using my AutoPots for this grow. I use their fabric bags and I just received their new bottom inserts that replace needing anything at the bottom of the pots (pebbles, etc). I also ordered the Air Domes for this grow as well.

Going to cross my fingers that I can finally grow a plant over 14 inches.