Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

[Aqua Man]

Good grief, just when you think you have something figured out.... That said, THANKS for the heads up!
I guess it's back to GH pH down???

Its great for soil grows but citric acid reacts with bicarbonate. The result is its offgassed in the form of co2. This makes its longevity very short when using as a PH buffer.

Look for cheap 85% phosphoric acid. Its the most cost effective but GH will work as i believe its a blend of phosphoric acid and citric acid. I prefer phosphoric or sulphuric but phosphoric is cheap and locally found usually very concentrated. Check local hydro stores

 

[Moe.Red]

That's a good piece of advice right there ^^^

 

[Moe.Red]

Good grief, just when you think you have something figured out.... That said, THANKS for the heads up!
I guess it's back to GH pH down???

I feel the edge of frustration man, and I get it. Huge learning curve to understand it all, especially when you head into chemistry. If you can get @Aqua Man to stick around and you are willing to learn, buckle up.

If you want to make it easy on yourself, just follow along with me on my grow. Do what I do and scale it down for your size. Basically, everything I do you multiply by 0.12. I'll get as specific as you want. Seeds cracked open tonight, nothing above ground yet. My Fallponics RDWC is purring away empty with a little nutes, sugar, and bennies. Just waiting on roots to feed.

I'm about to launch this new thread, but tonight is for my bride @TortugaSavvy . I'll get on it with you grower tomorrow. Happy Valentines day all.

 

[Aqua Man]

The bonus is if you follow @Moe.Red advice and information the likelihood of a very successful first grow is going to go waaaay up.

Remember you only need to learn all this once. For many growers that can mean years or trials and errors. Your going to eliminate a lot of the headaches and heartaches that many face before you even get started following him.

hmmm does this make @Moe.Red comparable to Jesus? He did after all go through all the pain, hardships and heartaches of learning, spreading the word to the masses to save countless plants from a painful and merciless death.

 

[Moe.Red]

The bonus is if you follow @Moe.Red advice and information the likelihood of a very successful first grow is going to go waaaay up.

Remember you only need to learn all this once. For many growers that can mean years or trials and errors. Your going to eliminate a lot of the headaches and heartaches that many face before you even get started following him.

hmmm does this make @Moe.Red comparable to Jesus? He did after all go through all the pain, hardships and heartaches of learning, spreading the word to the masses to save countless plants from a painful and merciless death.

Ummm, no not Jesus or anything close. The only water I walk on is ice. Just trying to grow weed and figure stuff out.

That said it seems really hard to imagine a time when it all makes sense. Trust me, it will. You just need some hands on experience.

 

[Moe.Red]

BTW - missed a question earlier -I use GH PH down in the bottle. If you have that no need to get anything else.

 

[IamN2pot]

Thanks Moe and Aqua! Flustrated, yep. Ready to throw in the towel, no way!!! I'll be watching Moe's RDWC thread and then deviding his amounts by .12 for my tiny system is perfect. Math was my one easy class, back when.
I have the GH up and down, so good to know it will work. I'm down to my last few oz's of pH down, so I'll just order some of the 85% phosphoric acid from Amazon. As for finding it at my local GrowGeneration grow store, LOL. I searched '85% phosphoric acid' and came up empty. I'm begining to wonder why I even bother with them! It's rare for them to have what I need. They have the GH product line, hahahaha!!!

And since there can be issues with off gassing from combining the 'organic' pH up and down and I overdosed with citric acid and wound up using 2 gr of silica, I'm gonna drain and restart this morning. Practice makes perfect! Time to get to work......

 

[Moe.Red]

Thanks Moe and Aqua! Flustrated, yep. Ready to throw in the towel, no way!!! I'll be watching Moe's RDWC thread and then deviding his amounts by .12 for my tiny system is perfect. Math was my one easy class, back when.
I have the GH up and down, so good to know it will work. I'm down to my last few oz's of pH down, so I'll just order some of the 85% phosphoric acid from Amazon. As for finding it at my local GrowGeneration grow store, LOL. I searched '85% phosphoric acid' and came up empty. I'm begining to wonder why I even bother with them! It's rare for them to have what I need. They have the GH product line, hahahaha!!!

And since there can be issues with off gassing from combining the 'organic' pH up and down and I overdosed with citric acid and wound up using 2 gr of silica, I'm gonna drain and restart this morning. Practice makes perfect! Time to get to work......

Good attitude bro, you will get there. 1 good grow is all it will take for this to start to fall into place mentally. Take a look at the harvest @SweetLeafGrow just did for inspiration. Still wet, but expecting it to be over a pound dry on one plant using the same methods you are here.

 

[IamN2pot]

Good attitude bro, you will get there. 1 good grow is all it will take for this to start to fall into place mentally. Take a look at the harvest @SweetLeafGrow just did for inspiration. Still wet, but expecting it to be over a pound dry on one plant using the same methods you are here.

Yeah, I've been keeping up with that thread. ...and a public CONGRATS! to @SweetLeafGrow . Super grow! I was starting to wonder if he had a 'indeterminate' variety (to use a tomato term ), it just wouldn't amber up for him and kept putting out new growth.

I got some 85% phosphoric acid ordered from Amazon, but in the mean time, I use my GH pH down. Thanks for the tip @Aqua Man !!!
I just changed out that overdosed, citric acid water and will report on that progress later.
For now, a quick picture of some of my compost trash bens, outside the bedroom window. Not doing much composting today, bahahahaha!!!!

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah, I've been keeping up with that thread. ...and a public CONGRATS! to @SweetLeafGrow . Super grow! I was starting to wonder if he had a 'indeterminate' variety (to use a tomato term ), it just wouldn't amber up for him and kept putting out new growth.

I got some 85% phosphoric acid ordered from Amazon, but in the mean time, I use my GH pH down. Thanks for the tip @Aqua Man !!!
I just changed out that overdosed, citric acid water and will report on that progress later.
For now, a quick picture of some of my compost trash bens, outside the bedroom window. Not doing much composting today, bahahahaha!!!!
View attachment 1331382

Diluting will make adjustments much easier. You can just scoop a cup out of the res and add a drop to it. then add slowly to reach desired ph. Toss the rest away

 

[IamN2pot]

OK, I measured 1.2 gr of silica and added it, after mixing it in a cup of reservoir water. According to Moe's formula, 10gr sil x 30 ml ph down, I should need 3.6ml of pH down. I'm using GH down, so let's start with 1ml pH down. Waited a few minutes to allow it to mix and circulate, measured pH with my Bluelab pH pen, it's 8.2. Add 1ml more, wait, test. PH was at 5.9. Hmmm. 2ml is a long way from 3.6ml???
Enter the new 6in1 water meters from China I have now that I want to use for monitoring the water. I calibrated them as well as my bluelab pen last night and all were reading correctly in their respective calibration solution. 4.0, 6.86, 9.18 for the 'white' China monitor and 4.0, 7.0, for the Bluelab and 'green' faced China monitor. I took about a hour to get everything installed in the reservoir and in the mean time, the pH rose slightly, according to the Bluelab pen.
Well, like I said, the Bluelab was reading 5.9, it has since risen to 6.1. The green is reading 7.26 and white faced is 6.55. Life is soooo fun some days.
Should I start a poll to see which meter gets the most votes??? ...and all three were reading correctly in the calibration solutions!

All I've had to use for pH measurment, until yesterday, was my Bluelab, but whenever I used a receipe like Moe's, it seems to always read lower than expected! Hmmm??? I don't even want to think how low the pH would be if I added the additional 1.6ml of pH down. ??????

Why? the green and Bluelab were exactly the same in both the 4.0 and 7.0 solutions. Put them into the reservoir and they're 1.1-1.2 differant. What is up with that??? I'm so confused.... I need a dab, no, make that a blob. hehehehe

 

[Moe.Red]

OK, I measured 1.2 gr of silica and added it, after mixing it in a cup of reservoir water. According to Moe's formula, 10gr sil x 30 ml ph down, I should need 3.6ml of pH down. I'm using GH down, so let's start with 1ml pH down. Waited a few minutes to allow it to mix and circulate, measured pH with my Bluelab pH pen, it's 8.2. Add 1ml more, wait, test. PH was at 5.9. Hmmm. 2ml is a long way from 3.6ml???
Enter the new 6in1 water meters from China I have now that I want to use for monitoring the water. I calibrated them as well as my bluelab pen last night and all were reading correctly in their respective calibration solution. 4.0, 6.86, 9.18 for the 'white' China monitor and 4.0, 7.0, for the Bluelab and 'green' faced China monitor. I took about a hour to get everything installed in the reservoir and in the mean time, the pH rose slightly, according to the Bluelab pen.
Well, like I said, the Bluelab was reading 5.9, it has since risen to 6.1. The green is reading 7.26 and white faced is 6.55. Life is soooo fun some days.
Should I start a poll to see which meter gets the most votes??? ...and all three were reading correctly in the calibration solutions!

All I've had to use for pH measurment, until yesterday, was my Bluelab, but whenever I used a receipe like Moe's, it seems to always read lower than expected! Hmmm??? I don't even want to think how low the pH would be if I added the additional 1.6ml of pH down. ??????

Why? the green and Bluelab were exactly the same in both the 4.0 and 7.0 solutions. Put them into the reservoir and they're 1.1-1.2 differant. What is up with that??? I'm so confused.... I need a dab, no, make that a blob. hehehehe
View attachment 1331467

What is your starting water PPM?

I do not have personal experience with any of those green probes / boxes, but I have a good understanding of how probes work in general. Can you give me links to the products so I can look them up before I spew a bunch of generalizations?

Do you keep your probes wet in storage? With a KCL solution?

How old are these?

 

[IamN2pot]

What is your starting water PPM?

4-8ppm, depending on the meter. Green face bounces 4-6, white face- bounces 6-8, Vivosun (blue) TDS and EC has 8 and my generic(tan) TDC has 7.

Amazon links to meters:

Yewhick WiFi Water Quality Monitor with Controller, Online pH TDS Monitor for RO Water System, Zero Water, Hard Water, Support Tuya APP Remote Control: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Yewhick WiFi Water Quality Monitor with Controller, Online pH TDS Monitor for RO Water System, Zero Water, Hard Water, Support Tuya APP Remote Control: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Water Quality Meter High Precise 6 in 1 PH TDS EC SG Salt Temperature Tester Real Time Transmission WiFi Connection Water Quality Detector (#1): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Water Quality Meter High Precise 6 in 1 PH TDS EC SG Salt Temperature Tester Real Time Transmission WiFi Connection Water Quality Detector (#1): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Do you keep your probes wet in storage? With a KCL solution?

RO water for the Bluelab. I don't have KCL solution. and it's oh, 2-2.5 years old. The other 'green' and 'white' are new.

a picture always help I think...

 

[Aqua Man]

Amazon links to meters:




RO water for the Bluelab. I don't have KCL solution. and it's oh, 2-2.5 years old. The other 'green' and 'white' are new.

a picture always help I think...
View attachment 1331485

Don’t store in RO… kcl is super cheap. RO will really shorten the life of the probe.

The blue lab should have a sponge in the cap that you can add a few drops of storage solution to.

The EC meter should be dried off for storage to prevent corrosion of the electrodes

 

[Moe.Red]

Here is what you want

Amazon.com : Bluelab STSOL120 KCL Storage Solution 120ml pH Probe and Pen, Maintain Meters Used for Water, Soil, and Hydroponic System or Indoor Plant Grow : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com : Bluelab STSOL120 KCL Storage Solution 120ml pH Probe and Pen, Maintain Meters Used for Water, Soil, and Hydroponic System or Indoor Plant Grow : Patio, Lawn & Garden

www.amazon.com

Easy. Cheap. Works.

You can actually "revitalize" an old probe by storing it in this solution overnight.

Wanna know the science behind it, or just move on?

After you store your probe in this for a while, recalibrate. Then trust the bluelab probe is my advice.

 

[IamN2pot]

I have always dried them off when I'm not using them daily, but had no idea that RO was bad. Thanks! Looks like I need some KCL.

...and I just looked at and took another pH reading. Bluelab-6.5, green-7.27 and white is 7.02. At that rate, they should all get to about the same reading, in a few more hours, LOL!!!

I'm glad I got nothing better to do today than watch soccer and play with pH meters. Life is truly good!!!

 

[Moe.Red]

I have always dried them off when I'm not using them daily, but had no idea that RO was bad. Thanks! Looks like I need some KCL.

...and I just looked at and took another pH reading. Bluelab-6.5, green-7.27 and white is 7.02. At that rate, they should all get to about the same reading, in a few more hours, LOL!!!

I'm glad I got nothing better to do today than watch soccer and play with pH meters. Life is truly good!!!

Just keep telling yourself you only need to learn this once, you only have these startup headaches once, you only need another nut punch, once...

 

[IamN2pot]

Wanna know the science behind it, or just move on?

I can take your word on that. I'm certain you have other fish to fry and you've already been more than gracious with yout time with me.

 

[IamN2pot]

No more problems today, only solutions (pun intended)! I got down to my local grow store and look what I came out with. No more fooling around with cheap stuff. Cleaning solution, storage solution and calibration solutions! My pH pen has been thoroughly 'cleaned' and is currently being rehydrated in the KCI solution, so it's out of service untill tomorrow.

Mean time, I'm playing with the new TDS pen. My question for today is should I use the hygroscopiced (wet) 15-6-17 Clone? or just toss it? Jack's suggested in an email that I just add 10% to my measurements, so I mixed up 1.4gr in 1/2 gal RO, according to the instructions, 2.5gr per gal, and tested it with my new and freshly calibrated Bluelab pen. In the 700 ppm scale, the mixed up solution was reading 540. The feed schedule says it should be in the 770 range on the 700 scale. Hmmm???? I also premixed it into a cup. It would not disolve 100%. There were some small sand size particals in the bottom of the cup. I'll get a picture of the residue if I use any more of it.

My tomato cutting that I expect to learn on is over due to be transplanted into the 5 gallon bucket, so for a plan B, I'm wondering if I could/should just do the next week in the CloneX solution? It's what I've been rooting cutting in for over a year, but never used it as a feed solution. That blooming tomato is growing very nicely in the CloneX solution right now, soooo, what do you think? THen switch it over to the Jack's A & B next week?
This stuff:

Amazon.com : Clonex Clone Solution, Professional-Grade Nutrient Formula for Seedlings, Cuttings, and General Use. Feeds Young Plants, Helps Promote Growth & Rapid Root Development - 1 Quart : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com : Clonex Clone Solution, Professional-Grade Nutrient Formula for Seedlings, Cuttings, and General Use. Feeds Young Plants, Helps Promote Growth & Rapid Root Development - 1 Quart : Patio, Lawn & Garden

www.amazon.com

I hope that can be a solution while waiting on fresh Jack's Clone, and I'll use it for the cannabis seedling, IF the wet won't work???
Thanks for your input!!! It is truly appreciated!!!

 

[Moe.Red]

No more problems today, only solutions (pun intended)! I got down to my local grow store and look what I came out with. No more fooling around with cheap stuff. Cleaning solution, storage solution and calibration solutions! My pH pen has been thoroughly 'cleaned' and is currently being rehydrated in the KCI solution, so it's out of service untill tomorrow.
View attachment 1331868

Mean time, I'm playing with the new TDS pen. My question for today is should I use the hygroscopiced (wet) 15-6-17 Clone? or just toss it? Jack's suggested in an email that I just add 10% to my measurements, so I mixed up 1.4gr in 1/2 gal RO, according to the instructions, 2.5gr per gal, and tested it with my new and freshly calibrated Bluelab pen. In the 700 ppm scale, the mixed up solution was reading 540. The feed schedule says it should be in the 770 range on the 700 scale. Hmmm???? I also premixed it into a cup. It would not disolve 100%. There were some small sand size particals in the bottom of the cup. I'll get a picture of the residue if I use any more of it.

My tomato cutting that I expect to learn on is over due to be transplanted into the 5 gallon bucket, so for a plan B, I'm wondering if I could/should just do the next week in the CloneX solution? It's what I've been rooting cutting in for over a year, but never used it as a feed solution. That blooming tomato is growing very nicely in the CloneX solution right now, soooo, what do you think? THen switch it over to the Jack's A & B next week?
This stuff:

I hope that can be a solution while waiting on fresh Jack's Clone, and I'll use it for the cannabis seedling, IF the wet won't work???
Thanks for your input!!! It is truly appreciated!!!

Man I don’t know how the clone found have ended up that way. Yes it is hygroscopic but you said it was sealed with no holes. Also even if there was a hole it shouldn’t attract enough water to make it puddle.

Personally there are too many unknowns for me to trust it.

If cloned is what you have for now use it until the replacement shows up would be what I would do.