4 600s or 3 1000s

[Bobby Smith]

i know its a shitload of work to move everything out but id think about doing it. either way should b a legit setup

Thinking I'm just gonna leave it be for now, and worse comes to worse I could figure out how to change the wiring over myself at a later date.

Just don't feel like going through the hassle of having my second electrician in the garage this year.

Anyhow, spent five hours in there today in 95F heat and have basically nothing to show for it - the top three choices for located of my exhaust venting were not feasible, so had to go with my fourth choice.

Too tired to post and narrate pics so I made a quickie video.

The site won't let me post the link, so anyone interested just run a search for "sogbobsmith" on Youtube and go to my latest video.

Anyhow, gonna finish the intake and exhaust fans tomorrow, hopefully early enough (by about noon) that I can gauge how effective they're gonna be (will probably be about 95F in the garage by noon or 1, so if I could get that temp down to 80-85 with the fans running I'll be ecstatic).

 

[Bobby Smith]

Two Decisions

Firstly, decided to go with 4 600s vs. 3 1Ks - easier to cool, lower electrical cost, more efficient, and I wouldn't have to have an electrician come in and change a circuit over to 240V like I would with the 1Ks.

Assuming I can get dialed in with 4 600s vertically, that'll produce more than enough for my purposes - would love to get to a 1lb. a light, and anything more than that will be icing on my cake.

Secondly, decided to say fuck the chiller and ice box idea - just seems like too much of a hassle to do all that shit in the crawlspace with no guarantee that it'll work and the much larger startup costs vs. an AC ($2000 vs. $500), so I've decided to go with a 14K portable AC.

A lot of people say that portables suck (and they very well might, I've never used one), but I'm confident that in a well-insulated room and with drawing in air from the crawlspace that is AT MAX 70F (during the height of summer, and more like 55F for the other nine months), the 14K could cool down that room with little to no problem.

The benefit of it doubling as a 100 pint dehumidifier (doubt my 25 pint could hold up, so I was gonna have to buy a larger dehumidifier with the chiller setup) is an added bonus.

I'm definitely planning on utilizing that cool crawl space air, but I'm going to do it in a simpler fashion - just put as large a reservoir as I can fit down there (probably have to plumb some smaller ones together) and run a Hydrogen CO2 generator - I think exhausting the heat into a 150-200 gallon reservoir would do a lot to lower the AC needs in there.

So the plan for today is to finish with the intake and exhaust fans and then finish cleaning up - the next step is getting some wood in here and building the motherfucker.

 

[Boomer242]

Firstly, decided to go with 4 600s vs. 3 1Ks - easier to cool, lower electrical cost, more efficient, and I wouldn't have to have an electrician come in and change a circuit over to 240V like I would with the 1Ks.

Assuming I can get dialed in with 4 600s vertically, that'll produce more than enough for my purposes - would love to get to a 1lb. a light, and anything more than that will be icing on my cake.

Secondly, decided to say fuck the chiller and ice box idea - just seems like too much of a hassle to do all that shit in the crawlspace with no guarantee that it'll work and the much larger startup costs vs. an AC ($2000 vs. $500), so I've decided to go with a 14K portable AC.

A lot of people say that portables suck (and they very well might, I've never used one), but I'm confident that in a well-insulated room and with drawing in air from the crawlspace that is AT MAX 70F (during the height of summer, and more like 55F for the other nine months), the 14K could cool down that room with little to no problem.

The benefit of it doubling as a 100 pint dehumidifier (doubt my 25 pint could hold up, so I was gonna have to buy a larger dehumidifier with the chiller setup) is an added bonus.

I'm definitely planning on utilizing that cool crawl space air, but I'm going to do it in a simpler fashion - just put as large a reservoir as I can fit down there (probably have to plumb some smaller ones together) and run a Hydrogen CO2 generator - I think exhausting the heat into a 150-200 gallon reservoir would do a lot to lower the AC needs in there.

So the plan for today is to finish with the intake and exhaust fans and then finish cleaning up - the next step is getting some wood in here and building the motherfucker.

im glad to see u not do the iceboxes. i was goin to for my setup and did a lot of research and found the same thing; too much cost, not productive enough, and too much hassle. id like to keep my rooms as simple as possible. less shit to go wrong.

im runnin prob similar 14,000btu AC in my veg room and it does work but im pushin only 1400watts in my veg room and it struggles. buuuut its a vaulted cieling room so my air volume is huge and thats prob why it doesnt cool down to 75 without the help of my other portbale 10,000 unit.

ure runnin c02 so i think ull b dialed with that AC. prob doubles as a dehumdifier as well? i think most do. also i hope u got the dual duct split portable unit? this way it doesnt exchange ur c02 out of the room while attempting to cool the unit. the dual duct units are by far superior and more efficient then a single duct (ive even used both to prove it)

after explaining to my pops (who owns HVAC company) wat the ice boxes purpose was he just laughed and said fuck that lets get u a split 2ton AC. so i went that route. as long as u use the formula to calculate watts-btus, ull be able neutralize the heat easy.
no reason to waste money on ice boxes, chillers, and all that work.

EDIT: just realized u already mentioned the AC has a 100pint dehum. my bad; just wanted to point out details for future shoppers i guess.

i think the portable units are the next best solution compared to a true 5ton unit or split units like wat i have. i have the portable and works great. everyones setups are diff and need to be modified diff. my partner has his shop with the UC setup and 8 lamps and decided to use the same 14,000btu portable dual dutc units to cool it rather then wave a red flag to local units that this "old run down warehouse" is being upgrade with brand new huge ACs and they run 24/7 even during winter?! so security is a concern for peeps doing certain ACs. id try and stat away from window units since they exhange air (aroma and c02) theyre not efficient at all compared to the portable unit as well.

sorry for the ramble bob i just like to give out as much info from my crazy head as i can since my dad drills all this AC shit in my head.


im sure u saw the watercooled c02 generators?
mine does heat the room some... but not enough that im gonna trip on the heat build up. especially with a large enough AC.

i also intake fresh air/exhaust old air during the night hours to keep my RH% down and bring in new air. cheaper for me then running a DH all the time. plus i ran out of Amps haha.

anyways bro u got sum good shit goin here and im sure itll b dialed keep it up!

 

[Boomer242]

oh and i still rec the chiller for ur rez water temps (unless u figure out how to keep the temps down like mentioned above) its the one thing i didnt have the money/amp room for and i wish i could run em. just cuz my rez temps get high up to 78 since its in the flower room which is 85

 

[Bobby Smith]

im glad to see u not do the iceboxes. i was goin to for my setup and did a lot of research and found the same thing; too much cost, not productive enough, and too much hassle. id like to keep my rooms as simple as possible. less shit to go wrong.

im runnin prob similar 14,000btu AC in my veg room and it does work but im pushin only 1400watts in my veg room and it struggles. buuuut its a vaulted cieling room so my air volume is huge and thats prob why it doesnt cool down to 75 without the help of my other portbale 10,000 unit.

ure runnin c02 so i think ull b dialed with that AC. prob doubles as a dehumdifier as well? i think most do. also i hope u got the dual duct split portable unit? this way it doesnt exchange ur c02 out of the room while attempting to cool the unit. the dual duct units are by far superior and more efficient then a single duct (ive even used both to prove it)

after explaining to my pops (who owns HVAC company) wat the ice boxes purpose was he just laughed and said fuck that lets get u a split 2ton AC. so i went that route. as long as u use the formula to calculate watts-btus, ull be able neutralize the heat easy.
no reason to waste money on ice boxes, chillers, and all that work.

EDIT: just realized u already mentioned the AC has a 100pint dehum. my bad; just wanted to point out details for future shoppers i guess.

i think the portable units are the next best solution compared to a true 5ton unit or split units like wat i have. i have the portable and works great. everyones setups are diff and need to be modified diff. my partner has his shop with the UC setup and 8 lamps and decided to use the same 14,000btu portable dual dutc units to cool it rather then wave a red flag to local units that this "old run down warehouse" is being upgrade with brand new huge ACs and they run 24/7 even during winter?! so security is a concern for peeps doing certain ACs. id try and stat away from window units since they exhange air (aroma and c02) theyre not efficient at all compared to the portable unit as well.

sorry for the ramble bob i just like to give out as much info from my crazy head as i can since my dad drills all this AC shit in my head.


im sure u saw the watercooled c02 generators?
mine does heat the room some... but not enough that im gonna trip on the heat build up. especially with a large enough AC.

i also intake fresh air/exhaust old air during the night hours to keep my RH% down and bring in new air. cheaper for me then running a DH all the time. plus i ran out of Amps haha.

anyways bro u got sum good shit goin here and im sure itll b dialed keep it up!

After all the rambling I do, please don't ever apologize for rambling again :sun

I actually kinda treat online journals as somewhat of a "notepad" for me, so I just plop down whatever comes into my head as well - have probably re-read my journal at that other site 5 or 6 times - it's amazing the shit you thought of months ago that just now seems to make sense and/or seem feasible.

Anyhow, getting the dual hose Edgestar Extreme (looked around and this seems to be a popular model) - also has an auto-restart, which is 100% NECESSARY if you need to use it with an atmospheric controller (I have the Sentinel CHHC-1).



Yeah, I've got a CO2 generator (4 burner, 13BTU/hr), and even though it probably won't have to run for more than 20-30 seconds at a time, it'll still heat up the room some.

Have that massive crawlspace down there, so figure (in the summertime especially) it'd make sense to get a water-cooled CO2 generator and lessen some of the load off of my AC.

Like you, planned and planned and planned with the chiller/ice box setup and then just said to myself "why not just get a fucking AC?"

The only thing stopping me before was the fact that portables couldn't handle intake temps much above 90F, but with the constant source of cool air from my crawlspace, I think I've conquered that problem.

So I'm hoping that the AC will let me just "set it and forget it".

 

[Bobby Smith]

oh and i still rec the chiller for ur rez water temps (unless u figure out how to keep the temps down like mentioned above) its the one thing i didnt have the money/amp room for and i wish i could run em. just cuz my rez temps get high up to 78 since its in the flower room which is 85

Is your rez insulated? And have you had any problems as of yet?

Figured that since I was doing a drain to waste in hydroton I wouldn't need one - in hydroton, the roots get the dissolved oxygen from the air in the spaces between the hydroton, which is why it's almost impossible to overwater (and you don't need to cool your water to hold the DO that you do with other media).

If using rockwool or something that holds more water than DO in your water might be more of an issue, but from my understanding it's not an issue in hydroton at all.

The only thing I'd be "kinda" (not even, really) worried about would be algae or little beasties growing in my rez, but I think that making it totally lightproof and using my 35% H2O2 should pretty much make that a non-factor.

 

[Boomer242]

Is your rez insulated? And have you had any problems as of yet?

Figured that since I was doing a drain to waste in hydroton I wouldn't need one - in hydroton, the roots get the dissolved oxygen from the air in the spaces between the hydroton, which is why it's almost impossible to overwater (and you don't need to cool your water to hold the DO that you do with other media).

If using rockwool or something that holds more water than DO in your water might be more of an issue, but from my understanding it's not an issue in hydroton at all.

The only thing I'd be "kinda" (not even, really) worried about would be algae or little beasties growing in my rez, but I think that making it totally lightproof and using my 35% H2O2 should pretty much make that a non-factor.

i like hydroton. im switichin to it an aerocloners for the UC setup. but re right in reagrds to the DO so its good to see u thought it out. i wasnt sure. lower rez temps is good if u want to lower temps end of flower and trip out the colors as well. my rez like i said has been up to 80 (first round) so i lowered the room temp down to 83* to control a lower rez temp which is now at 78*

the first run i did have issues; didnt cover my rez hole and that with warm temps i introduced a pathogen attack on my lumen shocked and stunted bitches so it took over quick. i lost 3 total by the end. warm water is breeding grounds for pathogen and shit. i still dont quit understand all of it but im still researching to prevent it.
if ur rez is out of ur room i think ur good. at the shop ill be shooting for 63-68* water temps 24/7. its a diff setup as well tho.

no the rez isnt insulated, just the standard white rez from the hydro shops.
im waitin for sum extra cash to throw in a chiller until i get the shop running.

 

[Integra21]

Sounds like you're figuring it out Bob. Keep on plugging away on the build and you'll have it up and running in no time. The port a/c sounds like it should work fine, and when I get my water cooling up and running you can see how it works out for me. The main reason Im going that route is I already have a dual hose port a/c but in my extremely small space it sucks out a noticeable amount of co2 and herb smell and blows it into the garage, which is a problem. I think its because I bought a cheap one(windchaser off ebay for $500 shipped). So with the water cool Im looking to completely seal my room(light duct and a/c vents gone) which will improve my stealthness and stop my ac from pumping blue kush stank down the block for the world to enjoy. You gotta get some progress pics up when you catch your breath, curious to see how its going.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Sounds like you're figuring it out Bob. Keep on plugging away on the build and you'll have it up and running in no time. The port a/c sounds like it should work fine, and when I get my water cooling up and running you can see how it works out for me. The main reason Im going that route is I already have a dual hose port a/c but in my extremely small space it sucks out a noticeable amount of co2 and herb smell and blows it into the garage, which is a problem. I think its because I bought a cheap one(windchaser off ebay for $500 shipped). So with the water cool Im looking to completely seal my room(light duct and a/c vents gone) which will improve my stealthness and stop my ac from pumping blue kush stank down the block for the world to enjoy. You gotta get some progress pics up when you catch your breath, curious to see how its going.

It's going, but without having even a lick of construction/planning experience, it's slow going and the plan is always changing.

Have now decided that I'm just gonna frame out the back portion of the garage and make that a sealed room, as opposed to building an entire room within a room - there's a beam in there and some garage door braces that made building an 8'+ tall room impossible.

Also would've been stupid cramped in there with everything I was gonna try to fit, so more room is clearly better - gonna be about 15'x10' now, roughly.

Don't do much during the weekends as that's the only time I see my girl (she works crazy hours during the week), but I'm heading to HD tomorrow and buying some wood to start framing.

FYI, also have 4 600 dimmable ballasts, 4 Super HPS bulbs, and 4 socket/mogul sets on the way that I ordered yesterday (my productivity for the weekend).

Question - ANYONE KNOW A GOOD METER TO BUY TO MEASURE LIGHT INTENSITY?

Was gonna go with the Hydrofarm, but that only goes up to 5000 foot candles - is that sufficient?

Gonna set up the lights roughly how they're gonna be and then take some readings to figure out exactly how large I can make my octagon - I think I can make it a lot larger than El Blastido's design - at least one more plant site (if not two more) per level, per "side".

If only one more (which I guarantee I can do), then it will be 126 sites; if two more, which I *think* I can do, then it'll be 168 sites - don't wanna "overlight" my octagon and kill a lot of the yield I could get with proper sizing and spacing.

Will take some pics of the start of contruction tomorrow - gonna need some input from some people who know what they're doing because I'm fucking clueless.

 

[Boomer242]

im just stoked to see u get this shit up and runnin man. i never invested in a light meter so i cant rec one to u but im startin to think its time to get one. i hate guesswork and cant do controlled experiements with guesswork. lol. plz share ur findings or PM me if u dont mind. the garage does sound like a better solution. ill b lurkin...

 

[The Pheno]

I would say go for the 4 600's so you can put them closer to each other and save money on your electric bill. But if you don't mind either of those options go with the 1000s.

 

[Integra21]

Did you get your framing started?

 

[Bobby Smith]

Did you get your framing started?

I did, barely - in my defense, pretty tough to do a lot of the things I do by myself, and when you throw in my total lack of knowledge about construction, I'm surprised I get anything done.

Real quick - since I ramble so much (for my benefit to review at a later date), I'm gonna start bolding and making the font larger of important things that someone skimming can pick out rather easily.

Now, here's some pics:

Mounted a 7' 2x4 about 9' off the ground on either side; gonna run a 10' 2x4 and connect them across the garage door; the total structure is gonna be 14x10 (will end about where that black mount on the wall is - that's my Sentinel mount); need to figure out how to best fill in the large gaps in the drywall (drywall mud, methinks) and under the garage door - Great Stuff?; and then there's a pic of some Super Skunk clones who will help to populate the octagon on its maiden voyage - thought you guys would get a chuckle that they're right in front off my closet, when we came to this site to get away from closet grows.

Truthfully, it's fucking hard to hold up a 2x4 with one arm, drill with the other, change the drill bit with one hand, and then screw it in, so mounting those two took me a while.

Ordering my AC tomorrow - can't really finish the ceiling framing without knowing what I'm doing with the AC (really how loud it is, because if it's not that loud I'll exhaust it where I had planned on putting my exhaust fan to keep temps down in the garage).

Also, after some reading last night from Ddoc (the inventor of the Coliseum and Cage, etc.), I had some doubts about the root space that 3" PVC would afford to the plants - looking around in Home Depot today (when I bought the wood), and have decided to go with 4" PVC wyes (but which have a 3" opening) - about $3 more expensive per wye and about double the cost for the other fitings (waste T, etc.), so that's gonna increase the octagon cost from about $700 to closer to $1500.

Oh well, would rather pay more up front and make sure the fucker works than try to save some money and end up with a $700 piece of shit.

Also, and don't ask me why I'm so stupid I didn't realize this before, but I just realized last night that I can run 5 (if not 6) 600s in there - gonna wait to see what temps get like when everything's set up, but certainly going to run 5 600s in the fall, winter, and spring when heat's not that big a deal.

And finally, since I realized that I can run many more than four lights (and also because I'm trying to stay away from inline fans and the noise they produce), I'm putting the cooltube idea on the back burner for now - for some reason I think a large axial fan blowing straight up would remove just about all the heat, but I'm gonna try it out and will go to a cooltube if I need it.

Lol........aren't you glad you asked, Integra? :rasta:

 

[Integra21]

Ok, you still love changing your mind Bob. You got the right Idea going. Just as a pre-thought, once you get your beam measured and cut, measure and mark where you need the screws to be. Once they are marked, pre start the screws into the beam so that they are almost sticking out the other side. Do this for all screws on the beam before you try to mount it. Once they are all started, hold it up and make sure they line up where you want them. Hold the beam in the middle and get a screw in on the furthest you can reach from the middle. Hold the beam up and move to the other end, set a screw in at that end. Now the beam should be up fairly tight and it should be much easier to get the rest in. Hope that helps, I know how much it can suck to be doing it all by yourself. If you follow this process for all the rest of the beams, it will be tedious, but much less labor intensive. Also, make sure you use the correct screws to hold down the base beams. You need long enough masonry screws to get into the concrete, the proper size masonry bit for the screws, and you really need to use a hammer drill to get the little basterds into the floor. And as a general rule of thumb, it is usually easier to build from the ground up. Start by measuring and marking your floor where you want the base of the room to be. Then cut and lay down the boards all the way around the floor and mount them. Then you should have a frame on the floor of the layout of the room. Generally, then you will want to screw an aditional 2x4 to the top of the one mounted on the floor. It makes mounting all of the other beams easier. When you get this far, I can give you more info on how to proceed.

 

[Integra21]

Forgot, when patching drywall, if it is small holes, smaller than a screwdriver handle, you can use just mud. For semi small holes, use a screen patch and mud, but for this size and bigger, it is generally easier to just cut the hole to an easy to measure square hole, and then cut a a same sized square out of drywall scraps or a fresh borad if you have one. If the hole is small and you cut the piece well, you can just push it in and then mud the edges, if its kinda big, you'll want to take a small, thin piece of wood or a piece of drywall and fit it through the hole inside of the wall, then screw it in place against the inside of the wall, and then stick your square in and screw it to the piece on the inside of the wall and mud it in. It sounds complicated, and I know your backround, but its really not that hard.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Need Some Input

Integra (or anyone else), if you could take a look and lemme know whatcha think I'd be very grateful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCRTFynZuXk

 

[halitzor]

Looks good so far man.

 

[Integra21]

Ok, I thought you were going more permenent. My directions above are more for a permenent room. What you want to do can work. I would double up the wall beams(just screw another one right on top of the one you already did)which will give you a little more support. Once the beams are up, screw them in place to the side beams, and make sure they're down really good. Without proper bracing going across the other direction, I would keep weight hanging from that ceiling to a minimum. Just for refrence, drywall isnt very good insulation, and if there isnt actual insulation behind the drywall, I would add insulation all the way around on all of the walls with the temps you hit. and for all of those joints in the drywall, a nice mud knife and a $5 bucket of mud will nice and seal that up really good. If the drywall seems loose, screw it down some more, otherwise all of the joints will crack after a short period of time. Hope I got it all, any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Thanks Integra; have thought about it and am going to try to have the beams correctly (vertically) positioned across the ceiling for a little more sturdiness.

Still plugging along, progress is slow and steady.

Also, since my cloning skills seem to have taken a dive - they've been yellowing on me and shit, so rather than humiliate myself by reading up on cloning and figure out what I'm doing wrong, I just ordered an EZ-Clone 120, and depending on how many plant sites the octagon ends up holding and how I like the first one, I'll most likely get a second one within a month.

Gonna need ~240 clones to get this octagon filled to its potential (either 126 or 168 sites) with all superstar clones - I think October 1st is a reasonable date to shoot for (two week's veg, 10 week flower, harvest right around New Years).

 

[Bobby Smith]

First Taste Of Vert

Girl worked from home yesterday so I thought I'd actually have a helper in the garage, but she had conference calls and shit all day so that didn't pan out - however, I've told her that I own her this weekend, so I should make a lot of progress (hopefully).

Decided that having an exposed fluoro in front of my closet prolly wasn't the best move to get vigorous mothers, so bit the bullet and setup my little tent inside.

Was looking for my reflector hangars (can NEVER find them when I need them) when I thought "why not just take the bulb out and hang it vertically? Be a nice intro to vert lighting, if nothing else".

So I did (see pics below); the central AC had tripped its circuit and it was 83F in the house when I took the initial temp readings (96), but even with the house at 72 the thermometer in the tent is reading 82.

Still early, but I'm thinking that reflectors work WAY better in tents because they trap the heat from the bulb and make it mucho easier to vent out of the tent - bare bulb just lets that heat go wherever it wants, and keeping temps in check is much harder than I would've thunk.

Have a 4" (170CFM) for exhaust and passive intake, and temps are ~7 degrees warmer inside the tent than the room it's in.

This issue has also made me rethink whether the 14KBTU portable I ordered will be able to keep temps in check, and I'm fairly certain (during the height of summer, anyways) that the answer is going to be "no", but obviously time will tell - the cool intake air should help, as well as insulating the fuck outta everything, but we'll just have to run it and see.

As long as I'm thinking of it, anyone have any idea how many BTUs a 600 digi ballast puts out? Could put the ballasts in my crawlspace, but then I'd have to go down there when I wanted to dim them, etc........a MASSIVE pain in the ass, but if the BTUs removed are large enough, might just be worth it.

That being said, need to utilize the cool air in the crawlspace better if I wanna really get a handle on my temps, and I think I've come up with a solution - planning on plumbing ten of these together under the crawlspace, giving me 200-225 gallons (I'm assuming, not sure how much water I can fill in each) of cool water.



Not gonna run a cooler and am simply gonna let the cool air below the house cool it - that being said, here's my question - would it make more sense to utilize that cooling power on two 8" iceboxes or a Hydrogen CO2 generator?

I don't believe I could do both because I'd worry about the Hydrogen heating the water up to a point where the iceboxes would be blowing hot air, so I'm thinking they're mutually exclusive.

Before I forget, ordered my digital lux meter yesterday - goes up to 200K lux (brighter than the sun) and some equivalent number of footcandles, so it's a pretty badass model.

I know some people are thinking "Bob, you just like spending money", but I'm thinking you only really get one chance to setup a room right, and I wanna really have my ducks in a row on this one, so the original $4K budget is out the window (octagon alone will prolly run $4K) - trying to keep it under $10K, but whatever needs doing is what needs doing, costs be damned.

Oh, also found some spider mites on the bitches, so sprayed them down with that organic green shit.

And the clones hated the bare bulbed 400; gonna have to put them back under fluoros until they pop some roots - they were not happy this morning after being in there all night.

Oh, also have read a couple of places that you can "double up" on your EZ Cloner, so my 120 can really be a 240, which would be nice (both for space savings and money savings).

As long as this is the longest post of all time, lemme continue - here's my reservoir/system idea:

Okay, so ten MPB totes plumbed together - thinking 1" tubing should be enough to keep their water levels equal, although 2" would work much better, in all likelihood.

From there, run 1/2" tubing (via a 800-1000GPH pump) up to an insulated marine cooler located inside the grow room.

Run 1" (if not 2") tubing back to the reservoir at the other end of the bucket system, making the water constantly fllow through the totes when the system is on - the 1" fitting will be located higher on the cooler than the 1/2" to keep water in there when the pump is not on - also gonna have a backflow preventer (a check valve?) so water will stay in the cooler.

And that's about it; either run a Hydrogen or two iceboxes from that cooler and call it a day - I like being able to access the reservoir if I want to "ghetto cool" it (throw some frozen water bottles in the cooler) on really hot days or something like that.

Sorry for the rambling.