How To Properly Root And Veg In The Uc

[click80]

We also tested STG and found it sucks. The owner of the company is a SERIOUS douche for starters.

Hey you don't have to hold back on here man, tell us what you REALLY think of the the owner...lol

 

[ZurichTheHunter]

After reading HR's post along with others on this subject, I thought that "Matt The Grower" from STG might like to answer my question in DS's absence.....

My email to "Matt The Grower" at STG:

Hey Matt

I have watched all of your videos on YouTube and like the sounds of your product as presented.

As part of the decision making process, our farm goes to forums such as THC Farmer to do our due diligence, seeing what other growers say about a specific product.

When asking about STG, the kind of answers I get in forums look a lot like this:



I would like to try your product; however, talking to other growers in our space isn't reassuring. What can you tell me that will refute what these guys are experiencing with your product? Considering the value of our product, we cannot afford easily avoidable mistakes.

I would like to try your product, but am struggling to convince my partners for obvious reasons.

I would like to invite you to join our conversation and answer questions about your product line.

We look forward to hearing from you!

ZTH

Let's see if he shows.....

 

[UCHQ]

After reading HR's post along with others on this subject, I thought that "Matt The Grower" from STG might like to answer my question in DS's absence.....

My email to "Matt The Grower" at STG:

Hey Matt

I have watched all of your videos on YouTube and like the sounds of your product as presented.

As part of the decision making process, our farm goes to forums such as THC Farmer to do our due diligence, seeing what other growers say about a specific product.

When asking about STG, the kind of answers I get in forums look a lot like this:



I would like to try your product; however, talking to other growers in our space isn't reassuring. What can you tell me that will refute what these guys are experiencing with your product? Considering the value of our product, we cannot afford easily avoidable mistakes.

I would like to try your product, but am struggling to convince my partners for obvious reasons.

I would like to invite you to join our conversation and answer questions about your product line.

We look forward to hearing from you!

ZTH

Let's see if he shows.....

Matt's not worked for STG for over 2 years now so I wouldn't expect a response too soon. You're gonna have to make the call on the STG for yourself.

Though I can't imagine that with the over whelming neg feed back on it in the UC that you'd want to risk your success to prove it works?

 

[ZurichTheHunter]

Matt's not worked for STG for over 2 years now so I wouldn't expect a response too soon. You're gonna have to make the call on the STG for yourself.

Though I can't imagine that with the over whelming neg feed back on it in the UC that you'd want to risk your success to prove it works?

Thanks for the update UCHQ. That would explain why there are no new "Matt The Grower" videos on youtube from STG since 2010. Do you know where Matt is working now?

 

[TwistedShaman]

few updates:

plants were defoliated a few times over the next 25 days, the last defoliation will be tomorrow...

5 days into flower:

DS, could you elaborate a little more on what you are doing for "last defoliation"?

Thanks alot, this thread has been SOOOO helpful!

 

[johnnyrex]

Hello DS It looks like its been awhile since you post in your thread but I hope you have time to answer this question when you put your pre-veg clones in the UC to start phase 1 of the veg stage, once you set your ph to 5.3 does it go up before you move on to phase 2 if so how high does go and do you do anything to correct it prior to phase 2 of veg stage thanks DS.

 

[Dr. Gre3N ThUmB]

How about my huge financial loss??





After loosing the last 3 crops to leaky buckets in the middle of flower, using 2 12xls would equal $240, a little more than an 1/8th of weed.

One thing to know with these uc systems is that you need to have extra parts laying around (ie buckets with holes drilled in them and also both pumps and really an extra chiller) as any of these could fuck up your whole month. Sounds like you should've bought one system and some spare parts. If you are having that many broken buckets it sounds like you are putting them together wrong. You have to use ky jelly and you won't have them breaking. I don't see how you could lose the whole crop as the leaky buckets i have seen were still usable until I reafed on them and really broke them. Long story short the buckets are a little fragile but anything comparable are way expensive so buy some extra and be careful with them. ps if they are leaking the bucket is broke, uniseals do not leak.

 

[HydroRocks]

All I know is that one of the WORST experiences I have ever had in my 28 plus years of experience has come from not only the product STG, but the owner of the company as well. That guy has some SERIOUS mental issues I think. It failed about half way through the flower cycle as the product just literally came apart inside the net pots and inside the system. It caused a TOTAL failure which is actually the only and FIRST total crop failure I think I have ever experienced.

I would not use that stuff even if you PAID me too!

On a different note, I found this website that is a excellent source for H202 information.

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/index.html

Cheers!

 

[HydroRocks]

Hey Johnnyrex- you want the PH to fluctuate from 5.3 to 6.2

Normally you would not attempt to adjust the PH as long as it is in this range.

The reason for this is because different nutrients are absorbed by the plant at different PH levels.

Cheers!

 

[click80]

All I know is that one of the WORST experiences I have ever had in my 28 plus years of experience has come from not only the product STG, but the owner of the company as well. That guy has some SERIOUS mental issues I think. It failed about half way through the flower cycle as the product just literally came apart inside the net pots and inside the system. It caused a TOTAL failure which is actually the only and FIRST total crop failure I think I have ever experienced.

I would not use that stuff even if you PAID me too!

On a different note, I found this website that is a excellent source for H202 information.

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/index.html

Cheers!

Yeppers...STG sucks in flood tables so I would not attempt it in a UC and I know shit about UC. STG collected algae quicker than RW tops. BAD PRODUCT.

Thanks for the link...did you see the 10ml per gallon recommendation on that site? Here is the link to the plant watering page from that site. http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrogen-peroxide.html

I am wondering because I accidentally applied H2O2 at 12ml per gallon and didn't realize my mistake until about 4 days later when I went to add it in again. I am wondering what is the highest rate you have ever used it and Have you used it with Zone? if so would I need to stick with lower dosages of both?

Anyone can chime in on this... I had decent roots last time using Zone but have noticed that some UC people use H2O2 in conjunction with SM90 and Zone etc....so i am curious as to what you guys think for doing that in an Ebb and Flow.

 

[HydroRocks]

IMO you would not need H202 if your using Zone.

I have known about the recommended dosage rates for H202 from that site for a while now. I have seen other sources which suggest the same rates also. Saying that we have yet to reach those dosages, though depending on your water source and environment I could see the higher rates being needed possibly.

Using 29% H202 we dose at 3ml per gallon about 24 hours before a tank change. This is to kill off both good and bad bacteria to keep things in check/balance.

Cheers!

 

[click80]

IMO you would not need H202 if your using Zone.

I have known about the recommended dosage rates for H202 from that site for a while now. I have seen other sources which suggest the same rates also. Saying that we have yet to reach those dosages, though depending on your water source and environment I could see the higher rates being needed possibly.

Using 29% H202 we dose at 3ml per gallon about 24 hours before a tank change. This is to kill off both good and bad bacteria to keep things in check/balance.

Cheers!

Here is a link that gives testing data on H2O2 in water and the resulting PPMs of H2O2....this article was for sanitizing water but I am using it in conjunction with some other articles on the best PPM of H2O2 for clones, for reservoirs in hydro, for combating root rot etc....

I have to find the other articles again cause I am stupid about bookmarking stuff and then not remember what folder i put it in but I swear I found an article that stated 10 ppm of H2O2 was safe as maintenance. But I thought that sounded high.

here is a link that says H2O2 reduced lettuce growth and is no good for pathogen control....damn I hate reading conflicting shit...I know that has to be wrong...too many people on here have used it and have seen good results.
http://www.crophouse.co.nz/files/CG_W09-Hydrogen_peroxide-view.pdf

 

[SKUNK420]

My Dyna-Gro Bloom has precipitates in it

Was wondering if I should still use a sample bottle of dyna-gro bloom that has some precipitates in it. I don't want to risk messing up some clones that are about to root. Was reading that the calcium and phosphorus & calcium and sulfur is what combines together to form the precipitates. It seems that it would defeat the purpose to use if the some phosphorus it already locked out. No big deal it was free but it sucks cuz it was free. Can it be revived with hot water? Was also thinking of pouring it into a glass and using something to smash/grind the precipitates then adding equal amounts of hot water.

 

[HydroRocks]

Skunk420- You can strain the hard stuff out and then try and dissolve in warm water. Those instructions came straight from DynaGro. You can also call them and have a replacement bottle sent to you.

We tested Dynagro extensively and worked with one of the lab techs and found out that there was something causing crystals to grow inside the bottle due to the pure minerals they use.

Since that time Dynagro has fixed the issue by using smaller size micro filters on there tanks.



Click80- Yes you will find information about H202 that says it is a toxin to the plants, and this is true. There are also people that feel the use of H202 is detrimental to the plant and is the last thing you want to give to a already weakened plant as a fix.

It seems both sides of the fence are accurate. It can in some cases actually make the plant even more weak as it is a toxin to the plant.

In the end you will have to decide if you think it is good or not to use on plants.

We use H202 as described in previous post about 2 days before a tank change to kill off good and bad biology in the tanks to help keep a "balance" of sterility and biology life.

 

[SKUNK420]

HydroRocks thanks for info. I'll try what you said and use it on a few clones as a test. I also a have one year old 11 oz. bottle of Foliage-Pro and its fine no solids.
​

 

[click80]

Skunk420- You can strain the hard stuff out and then try and dissolve in warm water. Those instructions came straight from DynaGro. You can also call them and have a replacement bottle sent to you.

We tested Dynagro extensively and worked with one of the lab techs and found out that there was something causing crystals to grow inside the bottle due to the pure minerals they use.

Since that time Dynagro has fixed the issue by using smaller size micro filters on there tanks.



Click80- Yes you will find information about H202 that says it is a toxin to the plants, and this is true. There are also people that feel the use of H202 is detrimental to the plant and is the last thing you want to give to a already weakened plant as a fix.

It seems both sides of the fence are accurate. It can in some cases actually make the plant even more weak as it is a toxin to the plant.

In the end you will have to decide if you think it is good or not to use on plants.

We use H202 as described in previous post about 2 days before a tank change to kill off good and bad biology in the tanks to help keep a "balance" of sterility and biology life.

yeah things get confusing sometimes...

Now I am having trouble with some clones I just put in a flood table...I followed DS's clone rooting thread, for the most part, and got the best roots I have ever had on a clone...they were in RRooters and i put them in 3" RW cubes, watered with solution of Technaflora Boost and Bloom at 450ppm with Rapid Start, Hormex, Protekt, and Thrive, and Great White. They pushed roots out of the bottom of cube in two days and by three days all were showing roots out of bottom of cubes. Then they stalled..i had them on top of cloning tray inserts. Last time I cloned, I basically did the same thing but as soon as they were out the bottom of RW i put them in trays with perlite and the roots kept on jamming. By the time I put them into the flood table the bottoms of cubes were a solid mass of roots about 2" long. This time, when they stalled I figured they were air pruning so I put them in plastic trays like previous time but with hydroton instead of perlite. I didn't think that i would be able to get the perlite off if I used that again. Last time I was also using perlite in flood tray so was not concerned about that.

So anyway they just stalled and kinda stayed that way, I went ahead and moved them into flood tray and root formation is very slow. The plants are healthy, no prob there, but I am not getting a root explosion like last time and thats what I want.

I have to stick with flood tables for now and I think the best practice in flood tables is to have the best roots possible (or with any method obviously).

I am wondering if they did so much better last time because the perlite is smaller and the roots have more structure to attach to? I am just kinda bummed. I finally feel like I have a good system down cloning wise and I am really disappointed I could not replicate it this time like last. I need to order some of that UCRoots maybe, but I have all kinds of additives and feel like I should be able to do it without all that stuff. Like i mentioned last time the only stuff extra was Hormex (very little) and Rapid Start. This time I added Great White to the mix just to help the roots get a good start. Maybe I should have stayed away from any bennies since i was not planning on running a live system. In other words I wonder if you do innoculate at first but dont keep feeding the bennies and they die does that hurt the roots any? I know in UC people have trouble transitioning sometimes and wonder how to handle this and what caused it..

anyway im rambling....

This morning I am going to pull them out of table, I just have them sitting in the H'ton, and I am putting them in pots with hdroton and then back in on top of hydroton. I am going to let the cubes get really dry, like almost to the point where the plants wilt (I think its called the Temporary Wilt Point) and then run a flood but before i will pull out any pots where the rwool is still wet. I am hoping that will force the roots to start seeking out moisture and get some them amped up again. I have about 6 plants that are not using as much water as the others and am concerned that root rot might get started on those. Its kinda of a pain when all the plants are not needing water at same time.

argh...I hate shit like this.

 

[ZombieSlave]

450ppm sounds high add more water...

 

[ZombieSlave]

JonnhyRex: they look over fed IMO
I would FLush your system.

like pump out 70% and replace with fresh water
What kind of water are you useing?
Tap,RO,smallboy?

I cant read your gardian in the pic ... raise its brightness lvl.


DS thanks for the advice they saved my girls from the brink. and I learned a lot!

 

[click80]

450ppm sounds high add more water...

thanks man...yes I agree...

now another problem...I checked res about an hour ago and I have brown floatys in there, pump is not gunked up or the hose, just slimy brown floatys...i have read enough on the farm here to know I got a pathogen building up.

Its kinda weird that this started so soon after I added in sm90...I did it to try and prevent any nastys from taking up residence until I got the roots going good...I think I should not have used great white on the clones when they first started rooting, I know it helped but I was also adding in some CalMag from the GO line to feed the Great White...it has sugar and molasses in it...should have just gone with Hormex and Base Nutes and H2O2 and/or Zone. My last grow I had great clones that rooted like crazy and looking back I can see now the Zone might have had a lot to do with that...

anyway I am not going to overthink it...I have this posted in another UC thread and am waiting for an answer on dosages for disinfecting. I am going to change both res's, put the plants in the one table that are not in pots, in pots, and then before I water any of them I will let them dry out as much as possible. That will also enable me once some of them are ready for water I will be able to pull out any plants that are not dry and needing water yet.

I was thinking of after chnging rez's just adding in ph'd RO water and H2O2 (and at some point a low dosage of Zone) but not add any nutes at all. I am sure the roots are getting soft so I won't burn them, the plants are still very healthy and I can foliar with Spray-n-gro and Bills if needed....that will flush them also in case they need it.

The H2o2 will disinfect and add O2, The Zone will disinfect and may have an additive effect. I am waiting on finding out what the UC guys finally found was the highest dose of Zone and HydPeroxide for getting rid of root problems. I think they went up to 5ml/gallon on H2O2. I accidentally put 10 or 12 ml/gallon of HydPerox in the last grow cause I read the directions as 3ml/liter and it was actually 3ml per gallon. But even after that and putting Zone in at 2ml/gallon I had fabulous roots. I ended up taking those out of pots and just putting cubes in the flood tray right on top of the hydroton thinking that the pot wouldn't allow the roots to spread much..anyway after harvest the roots were decent but def not as bright white looking as when I took them out of pot...

so anyway I have a busy night planned....We are getting hammered with snow so I know my local hydro store wont be opend back up until wednesday because we are getting an assload of snow. So I only have Zone, H2o2 and bleach...I have SM90 but i am not going to use that again....I wonder if good bacteria ever look like brown lumps of jelly....nah..

oh well another rambling post...

here are pics that I got from the last grow when I put the clones in perlite...I think the roots are great...I wish I could have repeated that....

 

[HydroRocks]

Looks like you are very close click80, some minor tweaks and you should be good to go@!

IMO, I think you just let the root mass and zone in general get to dry. I think the perlite kept/held enough moisture high enough into the cube/plug if that makes sense.....

When you build up a good root mass like that you have to watch the moisture levels really close and see where the "barrier" is where things dry out up near the stem. To much moisture and you get stem rot issues, not enough and the root system will die out.