A closer look at the UC

[woodsmaneh]

I feel you bro, it is fustrating figgering out the system as things can be different for everyone. The amount of time you have invested should have you killing it. I switched to ss coils for this run as I have 2 systems running from 1 chiller. I wish my grows all went well. I am running mixed plants, won't do that again because some need more food than others. I don't think the defuser in the epicenter is a cause of any problem's, I have done a ton of reading on bubbles and how they effect the water and plants and just don't see it being an issue. I have seen no precipitaion from nutrients in my buckets. The water is not oxygen saturated as you would need very special equipment to do that. (too much oxygen is toxic to plants)

One thing I did notice is tha 6" air stones move around in the bucket so next grow I am going to fix the stone so it stays where I put it.

I do tend to have at least 1 week in the UC where I wonder WTF is going on, but after 1 year of doing this I have started to understand the system. Still working on getting 1# per plant. I have done 1/2 to 3/4 but only once.

Just as an aside I have read tons on the UC here and marvelled at DS and JM and others grow monsters but always feel their maybe keeping something back, just a feeling, like there is some majic juice or something.

I also have yet to fill a buckek with roots, so I will keep at it. Too much money invested not to and you just can't grow huge plants any other way.

 

[UCMENOW]

Ironing out ur issues

I've been running UC's for several years and not seen nor experienced the issues ur suffering from Mo.

PVC's been used for decades in large scale nursery applications and other horticultural scenarios. Can't imagine there is a whole lot of difference in those apps relative to the way it's used in the UC.

My suspicion is that due to the high conc/availability of iron in H&G that it possibly interacts poorly with the perpetual use of the in line mag pump. Once the iron is precipitated out of solution it could likely cause a cascade of other minerals to become un or less available, causing plant health issues.

Seems these issues ur experiencing are unique to ur app Mo....have you considered a different nute in your UC? Seems that if you wanna stick with H&G it might be necessary to kick your UC curbside and rock some DIY RDWC.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

What about all the success stories? What about the people that DO NOT have ANY of the problems you mentioned?

Sorry to bust your bubble but the UC is a different system that requires a learning curve no matter what your previous knowledge was. I know of no other system that is designed and performs like the UC. I know of no other system that uses less nutrients than the UC system.

I know experienced growers like to "think" they got it all down because it is RDWC. Wrong answer! No waterfarm or any other system operates and changes osmotic pressure like the UC system.

I got news for ya, we are still learning about WATER, just water! We (the science world) are finding new things out about water every day now!

So I kindly disagree and see more healthy plants than sick ones in a UC system.

PS- I guess if Rob at H&G cant figure it out we are ALL doomed..LOL!! Rob at H&G did not even know about the product he is selling. He thinks Roots Excel has bacteria in it!! LOL!! Rob is a saleman and has lots to learn about growing!!! Rob is the LAST person I would be taking growing advice from.

If you want to discuss on how to improve the UC design then I am all for it! But if your going to bash the UC design just because YOU can not learn how to grow in this type of system and call blame then you got lots to learn my friend!!

Im gonna post a few pics in a min since your doubting my growing skills... I think your missing the point here... I am personally not impressed by that healthy plant you just showed me I have had plants that blow that away in the uc... The point of this whole thread is WHY they never turn out 100% healthy like a rdwc does it... If you never seen what hg in rdwc does then you will never understand what im talking about and the uc would produce good results to you... Im sorry but i think your all bullshiting and i would like to see up close and personal pics of your problem free uc grows... Show me the upper middle and lower parts of the plants from start to finish with any nute... I am blaming it on the system cuz something is not right. Im not the only one with this issue.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I feel you bro, it is fustrating figgering out the system as things can be different for everyone. The amount of time you have invested should have you killing it. I switched to ss coils for this run as I have 2 systems running from 1 chiller. I wish my grows all went well. I am running mixed plants, won't do that again because some need more food than others. I don't think the defuser in the epicenter is a cause of any problem's, I have done a ton of reading on bubbles and how they effect the water and plants and just don't see it being an issue. I have seen no precipitaion from nutrients in my buckets. The water is not oxygen saturated as you would need very special equipment to do that. (too much oxygen is toxic to plants)

One thing I did notice is tha 6" air stones move around in the bucket so next grow I am going to fix the stone so it stays where I put it.

I do tend to have at least 1 week in the UC where I wonder WTF is going on, but after 1 year of doing this I have started to understand the system. Still working on getting 1# per plant. I have done 1/2 to 3/4 but only once.

Just as an aside I have read tons on the UC here and marvelled at DS and JM and others grow monsters but always feel their maybe keeping something back, just a feeling, like there is some majic juice or something.

I also have yet to fill a buckek with roots, so I will keep at it. Too much money invested not to and you just can't grow huge plants any other way.

Very interesting point about that first week of wtf is going on I share the same feeling... I think what they are holding back is the camera so everything looks nice and lush... Tell them to take some up close and personal pics of the whole plant lets see how flawless they are... Im calling bullshit on almost anybody who says their uc plants can match the health of a rdwc. Show me...

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I've been running UC's for several years and not seen nor experienced the issues ur suffering from Mo.

PVC's been used for decades in large scale nursery applications and other horticultural scenarios. Can't imagine there is a whole lot of difference in those apps relative to the way it's used in the UC.

My suspicion is that due to the high conc/availability of iron in H&G that it possibly interacts poorly with the perpetual use of the in line mag pump. Once the iron is precipitated out of solution it could likely cause a cascade of other minerals to become un or less available, causing plant health issues.

Seems these issues ur experiencing are unique to ur app Mo....have you considered a different nute in your UC? Seems that if you wanna stick with H&G it might be necessary to kick your UC curbside and rock some DIY RDWC.

good point about the mag drive... But the mag drive works about the same as a submersible pump... If the iron was gettin knocked out from the pump the rdwc would do the same thing right? I have had grows without the spots too. This thread isnt about the leaf damage its about overall health of the plant... Have you ever ran hg in a rdwc? Its a huge difference.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I feel you bro, it is fustrating figgering out the system as things can be different for everyone. The amount of time you have invested should have you killing it. I switched to ss coils for this run as I have 2 systems running from 1 chiller. I wish my grows all went well. I am running mixed plants, won't do that again because some need more food than others. I don't think the defuser in the epicenter is a cause of any problem's, I have done a ton of reading on bubbles and how they effect the water and plants and just don't see it being an issue. I have seen no precipitaion from nutrients in my buckets. The water is not oxygen saturated as you would need very special equipment to do that. (too much oxygen is toxic to plants)

One thing I did notice is tha 6" air stones move around in the bucket so next grow I am going to fix the stone so it stays where I put it.

I do tend to have at least 1 week in the UC where I wonder WTF is going on, but after 1 year of doing this I have started to understand the system. Still working on getting 1# per plant. I have done 1/2 to 3/4 but only once.

Just as an aside I have read tons on the UC here and marvelled at DS and JM and others grow monsters but always feel their maybe keeping something back, just a feeling, like there is some majic juice or something.

I also have yet to fill a buckek with roots, so I will keep at it. Too much money invested not to and you just can't grow huge plants any other way.

Also in regards to plant toxicity I have ran grows on 1/4 strength and 1/2 strength and 3/4 and full as well as cut suppliments back. You guys gotta remember I HAVE HAD THE ORIGINAL UC FOR ALMOST 2 YEARS NOW!!! I also have had the second uc rollin for a min now... Trust me I have tried everything!!! And dont think rob is the only person I have talked to... I have also talked to daniel a million times for hours and hours at a time lol... Even the shit he said doesnt work... Now once again i. Am gonna clarify this here... I HAVE GOOD RESULTS IN THE UC thats not the problem.... If i didnt i sure wouldnt be still using it or have a second one going... Its just not flawless like my rdwc's kick out... And thats why im posting this here I want the health of my rdwc plants in the UC.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Come to think of it for all the doubters out there I completely forgot my mans and me are about a week away from kicking off our rdwc grow in the new play house... We can do a side by side comparison so you can see for yourself...

 

[UCMENOW]

It's likely the "Iron Man"

good point about the mag drive... But the mag drive works about the same as a submersible pump... If the iron was gettin knocked out from the pump the rdwc would do the same thing right? I have had grows without the spots too. This thread isnt about the leaf damage its about overall health of the plant... Have you ever ran hg in a rdwc? Its a huge difference.

Mag drives are seriously strong pumps and def emit a potent electromagnetic influence in the nute solution. I'd imagine the rdwc systems ur referring to run smaller pumps which r likely turned off at night? Besides, few rdwc systems I've seen recirc nutes perpetually or as aggressively for that matter.
I did run H&G for a period of time but switched cause I didn't like the pH drift and my plants didnt seem as healthy in my UC when I used it. The higher iron content (which H&G is well known for) combined with the 24/7 use of a mag drive pump is most likely the culprit. Especially considering it's causing symptoms not exhibited by other growers in the UC not using H&G's line.
I recall seeing pHuP struggling with similar symptoms and he's using H&G as well so it may indicate a pattern. Might consider running your recirc mag pump 15 on/ 45 off per hour and see if ur symptoms subside.
Though, like I said before, consider dropping the UC or the H&G, which one you'll have to decide.
As for determining what's causing your UC plants to struggle in your garden, stay diligent, and you'll surely figure it out.

BTW, no one doubts your having issues. Just not agreeing it's due to an inherent flaw in the UC more so an incompatibility with H&G/UC.

Also, please show us ur rdwc so we can examine key differences, thanks.

 

[opt1c]

These are all LA Con; aside from intense light issues i didn't have any of the leaf problems you have... a lot of nutrients can't hang in the UC because of the insanely high DO levels

this is a different grow i did

I use Dutch Master Gold with their add.27, zone, and silica.... not even a pk booster though u can use one for sure if u got the time to play with ur uc that much

 

[woodsmaneh]

My suspicion is that due to the high conc/availability of iron in H&G that it possibly interacts poorly with the perpetual use of the in line mag pump. Once the iron is precipitated out of solution it could likely cause a cascade of other minerals to become un or less available, causing plant health issues.

If it was an Iron issue it would show up first in the new growth, yellowing leaves. (yellow older growth is lack of N)

I don't see how the mag pump would be an issue, unless your sugesting the iron sticks to the mag, it sure does not knock it out of supension? and I have never seen any buildup on the impellers. I use them in different sizes and have no issues with them. I have heard people say because they are magnetic they attract iron but thats crap.

opt1c "a lot of nutrients can't hang in the UC because of the insanely high DO levels"

It would only be higher if the temprature was in the low 60's and even then it's not insanely high.

 

[UCMENOW]

If it was an Iron issue it would show up first in the new growth, yellowing leaves. (yellow older growth is lack of N)

Iron def exhibits throughout the entire plant. Iron, along with amino acids, facilitates or limits photosynth which produces chloraphyll, which when inadequate causes yellowing.


I don't see how the mag pump would be an issue, unless your sugesting the iron sticks to the mag, it sure does not knock it out of supension?

Yes, iron availability is potentially disrupted by magnetic pumps, not common but something abnormal is happening for Mo, which is why it's being considered. The issue seems specific to H&G/Mo cause it doesn't seem a problem others are having.

And no it won't "knock it out", rather it creates insoluble mineral compounds less suitable for plant uptake.

and I have never seen any buildup on the impellers. I use them in different sizes and have no issues with them. I have heard people say because they are magnetic they attract iron but thats crap.

You wouldn't see it unless it oxidized. With all due respect, these are issues that are common place in hydro since it's inception, not myths, just simple chemistry & physics. (disclaimer,I'm neither a chemist nor physicist:talking) Magnetic fields influence iron availability and unless it's acute, generally go on without notice.

As for DO, plants can do well at 2 ppm, thrive at 4 ppm. So considering this than the 6-9 ppm range the UC operates in can be considered insane IMO.

 

[HydroRocks]

Im gonna post a few pics in a min since your doubting my growing skills... I think your missing the point here... I am personally not impressed by that healthy plant you just showed me I have had plants that blow that away in the uc... The point of this whole thread is WHY they never turn out 100% healthy like a rdwc does it... If you never seen what hg in rdwc does then you will never understand what im talking about and the uc would produce good results to you... Im sorry but i think your all bullshiting and i would like to see up close and personal pics of your problem free uc grows... Show me the upper middle and lower parts of the plants from start to finish with any nute... I am blaming it on the system cuz something is not right. Im not the only one with this issue.

I think it is YOU that does not understand and is missing the point here but whatever. We are all full of shit, but your not. OK!

Very sorry that there is no design flaw with the UC system, the only flaw is you not wanting to realize that maybe you do not know as much as you think you do! The countless people that have had success in the UC and will continue to have FLAWLESS grows know better.

What a joke!!

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I think it is YOU that does not understand and is missing the point here but whatever. We are all full of shit, but your not. OK!

Very sorry that there is no design flaw with the UC system, the only flaw is you not wanting to realize that maybe you do not know as much as you think you do! The countless people that have had success in the UC and will continue to have FLAWLESS grows know better.

What a joke!!

Ok like i said before show me bro dont talk me to death... Ill show you some shit too :yes

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I wanna see up close and personal pics of your fan leaves and lower leaves if you have even a single flaw on them and they dont look like they are covered in oily velvet and bright green you can sit down and stfu for real lol...

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I challenge the many members you speak of to do the same thing... If you never seen a hg rdwc plant tuned into perfection you wouldnt know better anyway...

 

[MonsterRobot]

if another RDWC systems work so well you should save yourself the time and go with what works perfect for you... Problem solved!

also, isn't an Undercurrent a RDWC?

 

[HydroRocks]

Exactly MonsterRobot, couldnt have said it better myself! This guy does not even know what a RDWC system is really. He also thinks you have to use H&G nutrients to turn out a flawless plant...LOL!

Not that H&G will not turn out some flawless plants as we have used Aqua Flakes for years in the UC system. Only products by H&G that I am not a fan of is the Shooting Powder and the Magic Green, but you can turn out just as good AND ...(wait for it......) BETTER plants with other brands, like DynaGro to name just one....LOL!!

And because the UC design is so freakin AWESOME you can turn out flawless plants with just about ANY mineral based nutrient system. IF you know what your doing that is...LOL!!

This has turned out to be a very entertaining thread!! Better than tv!!

 

[smokie]

How often do you do change outs?

Do you think it could be specific to a certain strain?

 

[phup]

I have that EXACT (and I am completely identical) same creeping deficiency on my Bubbas, the leaves slowly turn bronze and dry out. The bizarre thing is my tissue sample analysis seems to be coming back relatively in line with all the proper nute amounts. My environment is also optimal and I see this creeping deficiency in all 3 of the systems that I am running in my warehouse. The funny thing is at my home project I have the same strain from the same cut running and they can handle twice as much light and are not showing the deficiency. I am feeding 630-600 (0.7) of H&G with a 1ml/gall Calmag and 0.5g/gallon epsom. That seems to have cured my problem at home. However, the exact same receipe is not curing this problem in any of my systems at the warehouse. Only slowing it down. Its driving me crazy


PS The only difference is that my home system is running as a double barrel16 site, while the warehouse systems are only two row 16 site systems. Wondering if maybe waterflow is inadequate????

 

[All4freedumb]

This is my guess.. that's why when I added the top line to each bucket I saw great results.


PS The only difference is that my home system is running as a double barrel16 site, while the warehouse systems are only two row 16 site systems. Wondering if maybe waterflow is inadequate????[/QUOTE]