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Mitt Romney on Medical Marijuana

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Mitt Romney on Medical Marijuana

Casper 100 Replies 9,549 Views
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You guys realize we have the power to put whoever the hell we want to on the ballot and vote them in--in ANY election.

And yes, I do believe Obama is hugely better than Bush, and better than any republican who might come after him. As was said previously the industry has absolutely taken off while Obama's been in the captain's chair--and this would've never been possible under Bush.

You're right, not many dispensaries were raided under Bush, but then again there weren't that many to begin with. I'll tell you what did happen a lot though under Bush--an ass ton of patients were prosecuted.

Delude yourself all you want--I'm not going to be coming over to your side simply because you don't like Obama. He's not my favorite, but he's the best thing since sliced bread if we compare him with Bush or Romney.



You're tossing out Red Herrings again. And YOU seem to be rather incognisant of the FACT that the popular vote matters two shits in a presidential election. NO " we" don't have " the power"................the electoral college has the power.

And of course even YOU get to the usual smugly insulting yuppoid , liberal , insulting and snotty " holier than thou , I'm a BBBETTTEEERRR than you" ...bullshit.

I didn't ask you to " come to my side" , and call me " deluded" again and you'll get similar insult in return . You want a reason for the growintg division between folks in this country then look at that sort of insulting rhetoric and look in a mirror.

And if ya just GOTTA run around labeling others as " deluded" based solely upon them not marching in lockstep with you politically then you shouldn't be real surprised when folks object to such arbitrary labels and the associated bullshit.
 
Will it seems Mitt was a bully in school. I have friends, men & women who are homosexual, hey as long as the respect the fact that I don't roll like that I'm cool! This doesn't look good he actually lead a mob that held the victim down while he cuts his hair off with scissors...Wow!! The worst part, if it could get anymore horrid than that is he says he doesn't remember doing it.....priceless!
I studied all religions before settling on none...the Bibles that I read all say that no one else will see the Lord until the day he comes back to gather his flock, so how did John Smith see him in the woods, plus I'll add that when Moses looked at God his hair turned aged white before the presence of the All Mighty!!
 
I called you deluded because I think you're delusional.

I don't necessarily think I'm better than you--I just think I'm more correct, and that I am because either:

1. I give more of a shit.

or

2. I'm lucky to have the perspective which I do.

If you want to take it as an insult go ahead, but I bear you animosity or ill-will. I'm able to separate what delusion means and what total asshole means. If I thought you were a total asshole I'd say so. Of course to be called delusional is insulting--but the truth is it's gotten to the point where I've run out of non-insulting things to say to you. I'm not going to just believe that you are delusional and wrong and then sit here and have some nice conversation with you and pretend as if that's not my feeling.

It is, I'm sorry--but I'm not here to make you feel great at all times, that's not my calling in life. My calling is to be true to myself and stand up for those things which I believe in--and this is one of them.

I do not fault you for doing the same thing, but I don't think its realistic of you to expect me to be all smiles and hearts about it. Frankly, I found your discourse throughout this thread to be repugnant and insulting as well. So I'd say that at the very best, we're on equal footing here.

You're not exactly likely to get voted "most PC THCFarmer member."

I agree that what's wrong with the country is peoples inability to have a conversation about this stuff. You, sir, are set in your viewpoints and haven't allowed for any type of discussion to take place. I take pride in insulting people like you if that's the result of me telling the truth about my beliefs--you are the type of person that insults were created for in my opinion (though I wouldn't argue that I am not this type of person--being strongly opinionated comes with that as part of the territory.

Take that as you will. I only say anything to begin with because I actually care--I realize you are probably coming from the same place and are well-intentioned. If I thought nothing of you as a person you'd be ignored--its not that I think you're stupid or bad, I just think you're wrong--and I wish more people like you would talk about it openly rather than being sure they're always right.

I've been proven wrong MULTIPLE TIMES ON THIS BOARD--and even though the people who were doing the proving felt the need to be gloaty and snarky about it, and essentially call me names--I still conceded defeat and now I SHARE THEIR VIEW BECAUSE I WAS WRONG. You might say that I'm whats wrong with the country--but I'd argue that this is the way things SHOULD GO.

I should have strongly held beliefs--but I should also open them to interpretation because I am fallible--as are you. Ask yourself, which one of us accepts this more?

How many times have YOU lost a political argument? I'm going to guess zero times. I'm going to go ahead and say that you think your beliefs have always been the right ones, because its obvious that you do not open them for interpretation.

You call the man with the highest office in our government O'Bummer and you expect me to take you seriously--and you purport yourself to be worthy of standing on some holier-than-thou pedestal where you stand above me in your observation of what is fair and right.

I say you're delusional, and that you've been a way bigger asshole about the lot of it than I have. I just come off as an asshole to people like you because you aren't used to people forming reasonable arguments to counter your claims. You're used to people getting angry and in-your-face and letting the discussion degrade itself over time. I talk some shit here and there, but I only do it as a means of making a point. If I'm flat about how I feel something, how can I expect you to believe in it?

You still circle around the point, which is that republicans brought us here, have sought to keep us here, and have ABSOLUTELY ZERO INTEREST in getting us out of this mess--or allowing anyone else to.

It's a fucking joke that any person who's done a single google search to try and clarify this for themselves would come out the other end believing that democrats are anti-pot and that republicans in any way have ever been a champion for pro-pot policy (or even been neutral to it for that matter).

That's what I mean by delusion. You seem to believe that something is a way which it is not. Republicans are the party of "protecting personal freedoms" so long as they like the freedom you have. Which is never as it regards marijuana.
 
I called you deluded because I think you're delusional.

I don't necessarily think I'm better than you--I just think I'm more correct, and that I am because either:

1. I give more of a shit.

That's what I mean by delusion. You seem to believe that something is a way which it is not. Republicans are the party of "protecting personal freedoms" so long as they like the freedom you have. Which is never as it regards marijuana.


You automatically assume that I'm some sort of Republican and YOU are calling ME " delusional"? Should be rather obvious that I'm *not* a Republican you pompous bag of wind.

AS I stated previously , you and those of your ilk would much rather engage in asshattery such as labeleing others as " delusional " for holding a different opinion than you would have any degree of rational discussion or exchange of opinions.

See , here's the key thing , it's STILL America , at least for a while longer , and as such if I don't wish to march in lockstep with some yuppoid , nose in the air SCUM who looks down on everyone else as " lesser"..............I freaking well can choose NOT to.

Now actually present an arguement beyond your psuedo-intellectual obfuscation , or go attain connubial bliss with the equine you arrived upon. I really don't much care which one it is.


The mere fact that you make an attempt to connect *me* with the Republican party makes quite sufficient statement on your powers of observation and associated cognitive capability.

Now FIND a single instance of my EVER having endorsed the Republican plank or any republican.................a SINGLE example will suffice.


You're a frigging educated fool.
 
You're a frigging educated fool.

I'll try to clarify a bit. You'll find if you poke around here that I believe not supporting the democratic party is essentially supporting the republican party (because the former is ailing and the latter is engine-that-could-ing along like no other).

Now you and I can disagree about that all you like.

I'm just gonna say fuck it and come out publicly and say that I've had a shit month and I've been super stressed--I let that get away from me a bit and I've been a bit of an asshole. I apologize for it, I know when I'm overstepping and now (and other times in the past month) I've been doing that on this board and it's not cool.

Can't go back and unsay any of the shit I did--but understand that I still believe at the core of the issue that many people are willfully ignoring perfectly good and reliable information which is easily available to all out there.

I don't think my position is perfect--and the only perfection I'm sure I've reached in any of my positions is that no one's position is perfect. I suppose what got me so frustrated here is that you seem to believe (to me) that yours is. When you get to insulting the president, whoever that is, I think of it as breaking the rules of gentlemanly argument.

I won't apologize for being a dick to you about that--because I think its wrong. I really really really really really disliked Bush (not that you'll care as you probably did too :p)--but I didn't stoop to this level. Stoop is the proper word to describe what it requires to do this in my opinion.

I won't hold that against you because as I've just admitted, this stuff also frustrates me enough to make some slip ups and go too far. I'm just trying to give a reason here, though, not offer an excuse.

I went too far (and not only in this thread) and I'm gonna step back off of that.

I still think republicans will destroy this country, and I still believe that not standing united against them in any possible way is the same as voting "yes" to making America "God's America"--but I'm going to do a better job from now forward of being "just the fact's ma'am" about it."

That's what I'm good at in the first place.

I apologize to the farm , and to you personally Bluenote, in any case. I hope you'll accept the apology and realize that I'm not such an asshat. If you met me, you'd find out real quick that snobbery isn't really in my bag of tools. This was me having way too much going on in real life (moving, finals, hosting guest from France, illness, research report/publication due)--and then trying to turn around and have a heated debate without letting any of that spill over. I should've realized how wound up I was and backed down.

I don't think I'm better than anyone. In fact most of my life people have been telling me that I'm better at stuff than them or other people--and I've always told them that I'm not, and that maybe I just tried harder this time.

Either way hats off to you making me look like an asshole--I told you I didn't always have to be right :p That the one thing that I am always right about. I really do like to be wrong--it helps me to grow as a person, as this will.
 


Fair enough Squig , and I'll clarify a few things as regards *my* stance , nope it's not "perfect" but then perfection is in and of itself not an attainable construct. , it's also a cessation of further evolution.

As regards 'gentlemanly behavior' , I'm from the South , I was raised on said code. That said when the time comes to dispense with said gentlemanly aspects the gloves come off .

I *owe* NO politician any degree of respect beyond that given to the average man on the street , and that includes the current Puppet in Power i.e. O' Bummer.

Our politicians have completely lost their collective moral and ethical compass , on BOTH sides of the aisle , collectively speaking they are as useless as tits on a Boar's Nose.

The system has been corrupted and looted from the inside out , and it started FAR , FAR prior to this or any recent adminstration.

A bit of humor that rather sums up my complete and total disgust with those inside the Beltway............
 
Its cool Squiggly..We all know political disscussion can get heated. We are all still CannaBros. :)
It's good to see folks still care. And it's good to see folks want to change the way things are done in this Government of ours..


I still think republicans will destroy this country, and I still believe that not standing united against them in any possible way is the same as voting "yes" to making America "God's America"--

Some of us think It already Destroyed squiggly. :confused:

Hey squiggly, I have a question,

Is the United States a Democracy? Or a Republic?
 
Hey Squig. Ben Franklin was somewhat of a Scientist like yourself.

and he may even have been a Non Christian founding father.

Look what he said.

“The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?”
BenF


It is My Opinion Squiggy, This Country is No Longer. "Under God"...

And that may be why it seems It is no longer Blessed by god and is Going to hell in a handbasket fast.

 
Hey Squig. Ben Franklin was somewhat of a Scientist like yourself.

and he may even have been a Non Christian founding father.

Look what he said.

“The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?”
View attachment 216884

It is My Opinion Squiggy, This Country is No Longer. "Under God"...
And that may be why it seems It is no longer Blessed by god and is Going to hell in a handbasket fast.

It's neither--its an oligarchy for all intents and purposes. I personally believe that Dem's have designs on putting an end to this (albeit they'll have to bed the enemy to get there)--I think that's where the disconnect is. The nature of the game is that its impossible to win without sleeping with at least one enemy--people take that as an all out "fight fire with fire" attitude. I think it's more of a necessary evil for democrats--and it is by design and with intent when it comes from repubs. It's their norm, its how the got to be who they are today.

For the purposes of the question you're asking, though, it's a republic--the distinction is not lost on me.

As for Ben Franklin--he was a deist for most of his adult life, and in old age began to believe more in a personal god. This is something which is often mirrored in society today--and the driving force is fear (of hell).

It's the same reason that women who are raped are "honor killed"--a fear that the honor of the family will never return until this is done. I'd say both of these things are seated in the same misguided ideology--a fear of the unknown, and a willingness to accept men's description of what the unknown exactly is.

For all their ineptitude at logical argument--bible thumpers are still really skilled at convincing people (read: scaring them) that they might go to hell. Planting the seed is sometimes all that is necessary. As I've said time and again in many conversations--people are not comfortable with lack of explanation and understanding. For every thing a human has ever not understood--he has offered an explanation that came directly out of his ass. Everyone is guilty of this at one point or another. You, me, scientists (now and all throughout history), and religious folk (notoriously).

I like it better not knowing, and maybe that's the difference between myself and most. I think that makes the entirety of life a question--and I answer by doing what I believe is right at any given juncture.

Same is true here for me realizing I was being a dickbag and I was no better than those I decried. I decry them still, but I can do it whilst maintaining a level of respect--and even admiration in understanding that most people are well meaning and if we're getting heated it's only because we both really care.

I should reserve that type of contempt for people who don't give a shit--and I will henceforth.
 
By the way Squig , my sympathies on the bad month , had a rather bad one myself , but we keep putting one foot in front of the other 'eh.........

Further clarification , you've likely sussed it out but I tend towards minarchist Libertarianism if one really has to label it.

Govt has grown to be a bloated , abusive and greedy beast that exists merely to further perpetuate itself. Without extensive top-down reform we're doomed.
 
I disagree with you--but respectfully from now on :)

What you're saying has its roots in reality--I just parse the info in a different way.

People constantly say government is big and that its bad and it will never be good--I think that this argument itself perpetuates the terrible nature of government programs. Our government does many varied things quite well--and not all of them of a military nature. The FDIC is a great example.

I think the argument should be about why things are bad and how to fix them. Not to just pretend we can fix it by shrinking the government. Shrinking the government will guarantee the decline of America (if it isn't already), but so will failing to repair it.

I think there's this sort of false idea that shrinking the government will fix any problems. It may fix some put it will present more in hydra-like fashion. The real answer to fixing the country is improving efficacy and efficiency of government programs. That may means slashing a ton of things, but certainly not haphazardly.

Bills need to be one thing at a time. The guys need to hunker down in the room, pick a program, and fix it--not by arguing about whether or not it's needed. All that leads us to is less programs, with still 90% of the remaining ones operating at sub-par levels.

The answers here aren't as one-dimensional as everyone believes. The problem can't be described in a paragraph. The process needs to change, not the thing itself (government).
 
For all their ineptitude at logical argument--bible thumpers are still really skilled at convincing people (read: scaring them) that they might go to hell. Planting the seed is sometimes all that is necessary. As I've said time and again in many conversations--people are not comfortable with lack of explanation and understanding. For every thing a human has ever not understood--he has offered an explanation that came directly out of his ass. Everyone is guilty of this at one point or another. You, me, scientists (now and all throughout history), and religious folk (notoriously).


Common ground , having seen aberrant Christianity from within it's bowels I'm understandably quite leery of the concerted attempts in some quarters to put a theocracy in place.

And in the most basic analysis the problem isn't even the basic text and/or religious system but instead is humanities corrupt and perverse implementations of said religious systems , primarily the Abrahamic systems.

Example: do *any* of you folks see any appreciable difference in the Mosaic Laws ( Leviticus) as dictated by assclowns such as Fred Phelps and stringent Sharia Law?
 
I disagree with you--but respectfully from now on :)

What you're saying has its roots in reality--I just parse the info in a different way.

People constantly say government is big and that its bad and it will never be good--I think that this argument itself perpetuates the terrible nature of government programs. Our government does many varied things quite well--and not all of them of a military nature. The FDIC is a great example.

I think the argument should be about why things are bad and how to fix them. Not to just pretend we can fix it by shrinking the government. Shrinking the government will guarantee the decline of America (if it isn't already), but so will failing to repair it.

I think there's this sort of false idea that shrinking the government will fix any problems. It may fix some put it will present more in hydra-like fashion. The real answer to fixing the country is improving efficacy and efficiency of government programs. That may means slashing a ton of things, but certainly not haphazardly.

Bills need to be one thing at a time. The guys need to hunker down in the room, pick a program, and fix it--not by arguing about whether or not it's needed. All that leads us to is less programs, with still 90% of the remaining ones operating at sub-par levels.

The answers here aren't as one-dimensional as everyone believes. The problem can't be described in a paragraph. The process needs to change, not the thing itself (government).


You misunderstand my stance Squig , I'm all for letting it collapse of it's own abusive weight and rebuilding from the rubble.

Your stance within the above is great in theory , but I have zero confidence in it ever happening until the entire Lobby system is removed and our elected representatives once again serve *the people* instead of their pet corporate interests and their own bottom line.
 
Common ground , having seen aberrant Christianity from within it's bowels I'm understandably quite leery of the concerted attempts in some quarters to put a theocracy in place.

And in the most basic analysis the problem isn't even the basic text and/or religious system but instead is humanities corrupt and perverse implementations of said religious systems , primarily the Abrahamic systems.

Example: do *any* of you folks see any appreciable difference in the Mosaic Laws ( Leviticus) as dictated by assclowns such as Fred Phelps and stringent Sharia Law?


And that's why I want you to vote for Obama.

If you don't you're voting for this.

I'd rather be looted than have religion forced on me or anyone in my family in the future. I believe the republicans are attempting to do this--and they have been for some time. I just don't think we can have our cake and eat it too on this one.

Their movement is strong enough that not standing up against it is the same as standing with it.

I feel your pain having been raised in a strict Christian home--I've read the bible 4-5 times solid, and I even used to be on a "Bible Bowl" team that won nationals (my mother is the coach--still today). Go ahead and look it up--that is a real thing.

Part of what got me to stop being a christian is that I found I was one of the only people in the entire organization actually doing the stuff God "told" me to. I told people about Jesus, I gave my time and possessions to charity, I turned the other cheek to my enemy (which was difficult, because I was a bit of a nerd--but also a helluva fighter)--and most importantly, to me at least, I did not judge.

I found the entire basis for the Christian religion of today to be judgment. The final button for me was when a deacon in my church berated my mother for allowing me to come to church with a mohawk. This woman, who lead me to be the christian I was by example--a woman who is perhaps the most devout and committed christian I've ever met, and believe me I don't just say that because she is my mother. It just seemed so backwards to me--and I lost it. Cussed the guy out, and I've never been back.

Once I made that shift, I spent nearly all of my time trying to figure it out. This is where I ended up. Diametrically opposed to what I was groomed to be for my entire childhood. I would love nothing more than for Christianity to cease to be entirely--but right now I'd settle for keeping the bible the fuck off the law books.

I really hope you can search you soul (or your mind) and realize that sometimes doing the right thing is painful--and that allowing republicans to continue to be in power is categorically wrong for every good reason. I don't think that makes the dems "right" just more right.

Let's deal with them once we've pushed republicans out of power.

If a third party represented a real option, I'd be on board in a flash--but most member of this party would vote left if absolutely pressed--and this translates to a win for republicans. they're more than happy to stave both of us off--and they'll have no problem doing it so long as we're separated.

Look at North Carolina and the legislation they just passed, or Ohio redistricting so that democratic votes won't be heard--or won't matter. They are both steps in the same direction. Some would say the first is about christianity, and the second is about party power. I'm trying to make the case that these two are inseparable.

The power of the republican party, is the power of christianity to turn why they believe into a law. Every year that goes by without a resounding challenge to them--is another year closer to blasphemy being illegal. Some might have you believe the slope isn't so slippery--but I say that's what they all say.

If you don't want Christian "Sharia Law", don't let these fucks get away with it.
 
And that's why I want you to vote for Obama.

If you don't you're voting for this.

I'd rather be looted than have religion forced on me or anyone in my family in the future. I believe the republicans are attempting to do this--and they have been for some time. I just don't think we can have our cake and eat it too on this one.

If you don't want Christian "Sharia Law", don't let these fucks get away with it.


Man , you really don't want to get me started on this one , I could write for hours just on the points you've raised............a quick aside as regards the redistricting in Ohio , you'll find the dirty mitts of none other than Rod Parsley if you manage to trace that one back far enough.

And NO I'll not vote for O'Bummer , nor RipEmOff Romney , and sure as hell not for Faux Libertarian Paul.

As regards O'Bummer and religion , you mean to tell me that you don't find his connection to Wright quite troubling?

They're all worthless , different faces on the same coin of corruption. And frankly I'm not going to get 'looted' by either set of 'em , nor will I fall for their divide and conquer tactics that seek to divide the public along religious , racial and ideological lines.
 
You misunderstand my stance Squig , I'm all for letting it collapse of it's own abusive weight and rebuilding from the rubble.

Your stance within the above is great in theory , but I have zero confidence in it ever happening until the entire Lobby system is removed and our elected representatives once again serve *the people* instead of their pet corporate interests and their own bottom line.


I say that confidence is everything, and that the republican party (and christians) have every confidence that they will be successful and are on the side of right (no pun intended). This is a more powerful thing than I think you are giving credit to. America will not collapse under its own weight for some time.

I TOTALLY AGREE with you idea that representatives should represent the people--and that they don't now. I think, in fact, that is the biggest problem we have. It used to be a public service to be a politician--men who did that had made their fortunes and run their races. They really did do it for the people, for a LONG time in this country--and that's how we became so great.

I don't think we'll get back there by saying fuck it.

I think the dems have a better record on:

1. Intents to reduce lobbying (and many support destroying the practice in its entirety--find me a republican with this position who would actually VOTE YES on a bill that ended it. You won't have any problem finding a few who claim they would).

2. Restoring politics as a public service (something I don't think I've ever even heard a republican mention--they essentially turned politics into a career to begin with.

3. Thinking about things critically--even when they get it wrong, at least it's not coming from some ideology driven by a thousands of years old book written by what we would see as fucking cavemen today if they walked among us.

Number 3 is the most important to me, because I believe it leads to 1 and 2. Republicans are driven by fear of hell, democrats tend to think in larger pictures than this--and there is actually a plethora of science to back this up. The results of all these studies are clear. Liberals have as much as 25% more brain mass in the area of the brain which controls complex thinking and understanding, and as much as 25% less brain mass in the area of the brain controlling responses to fear and threats (firmly settled in the "emotional center" of the brain).

This was something that I had long believed without any type of proof. It was clear to me that people don't just come by these feelings merely by experience. If they did I'd be calling Obama O'bummer myself and waving a Mitt Romney flag around. I can't name a person in my family (over 90 people who I actually know and see) that isn't a hardcore right wing republican.

When I read this study (the actual thing, not the shitty news reports of it by non-scientists)--I was literally jumping around my apartment.

I printed out 500 copies and "leafleted" my entire campus.

Was a day of great realization for me.

These people aren't just wrong, they're actually different. By some societal standards, depending on how you look at it, you might even say they are crazy. The difference in a schizophrenic's brain is not much bigger than the differences here.

Of course this makes a ton of sense to me, because I actually find them crazy.

A question I come upon more and more, though, is what the fuck does a person like you's brain look like by comparison. Now that'd be an interesting study. I'd expect to find you pretty much a hybrid. The best and worst of both.

The lack of direction the democrats have, and the absolute certainty of a perceived threat that republicans have. The intelligence and capability to parse complex things, and reason well--but the predisposition to seeing threats where none exist. Of course I have no idea, but this is just what I'd expect as the behavior seems to model what a brain like this would suggest might happen.

All guessing, but I think it'd be a cool hypothesis to test. Feel like jumping in an fMRI?
 
and sure as hell not for Faux Libertarian Paul.

I'm glad you see it this way--hooray for more common ground. This shit works a lot better when you're speaking reasonably :)

On to the meat:

Frankly, if I think the guy's lying--it's about being a real christian (or at least the type you and I are used to).

His record all the way back to age 22 suggests that he wants nothing more than the separation of church and state. If you really go back thru his record (pre-presidency and candidacy) this is very clear. It's almost like this was his prime directive.

I'm fuckin behind this.

Again, to me its a lesser of two evils argument. You'll notice I say evils--not evil and kinda evil.

Evils might be the wrong word (perhaps dickheads), but you get my point. I don't separate them categorically as politicians. I simply ask myself--if one of these groups has to decide things (and they do), which one do I want?

I'm goin left. It's better than worse. You don't go from shit to perfect in one fell swoop. It will be iterative, and I just claim this starting here is better than nowhere.

You don't have to vote for anyone, but just understand that you are voting Mitt. I want to convince you of this so badly. What's a stake is bigger than either of our ideologies or schemas.

The republicans are winning this fight dude, and they are doing it with propaganda and fear. You have to ask yourself if you're really going to just watch that happen.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
 
A little perspective may be in order. I'm likely quite a degree older than you are Squig , I went through all this the first time around. Those of my age *saw* the movement corrupted and run away with , and now folks groomed by the folks who did so are deeply seated within the Halls of Power , for reference look to two of O'Bummers personal friends and advisors , who of course ripped off and ran away with the entire SDS and perverted it ( eventually) into the Weather Underground.

Folks who were bitching about the Establishment in '68 have BECOME The Establishment.
 
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