Simple 1000w vs iGrow induction light

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WeedsterBunny

WeedsterBunny

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Excellent thread, it's really good to see side-by-side comparisons like these. How long until you pull the indicas?
Tomorrow :) That'll be 61 days. I'm not trying to make any claims about different flower times under different lights but seriously, looking with a microscope today it appeared ~35% amber triches on the iGrow side and ~20% amber on the HPS. I'll try to take some super macro shots tmw with my camera of some triches to verify that.

I let the indicas go a bit more amber cause to me, indicas are supposed to make you fall asleep or be couch locked. Not sure how much more amber I should let them go. I feel like they turn slightly more amber in the first few cure days following harvest. Kinda like a green picked tomato ripening off the vine.
 
WeedsterBunny

WeedsterBunny

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seriously Sarlacc, no offense (yet..), but you're starting to sound like a fanboy/shiller/spammer for iGrow (we know what this looks like all too well here, especially on the subject of new lighting tech). these kind of posts should prob be in that other rotting induction thread started by the indagro shillers, and leave this one for the bunny to show us his grow?

Thanks EC, I was afraid that was going to spill over into mine. Sarlacc, please leave it on the other thread. I'm just doing a simple test, not trying to change the world.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Nice grow, Weedster! Your observations of the two lights' effects were a breath of fresh air. I'm subbed, and looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the induction light now that you've run it yourself.

I'm going to go this far with 'Sarlacc'; I'm pretty tired of throwing away bulbs, and I'm well aware of the loss of efficiency over their lifespan. For these reasons I am seriously considering an upgrade to Gavita's 1000DE HID system. I've been watching LED , plasma and induction technologies for years, and they just don't seem ready to take on the HID head to head quite yet. Each has their drawbacks; there is the spectrum deficiency issue, then there's the lack of light pressure- and finally the truly insane cost, especially to outfit any op bigger than a bedroom.

If I had $20k to spend on lights, I wouldn't need to spend $20k on lights! -Ttystikk, channeling Yogi Berra
 
Sarlacc

Sarlacc

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8
Not trying to jack the thread and I certainly don't consider anything I've said here to be shilling for iGROW. That's just plain wrong! The name of the thread contains iGROW in it! I take from that title I would be free to expound upon the observations and any virtues that the much lower wattage iGROW option would prove in this comparison of sorts.

What I might get a bit incensed by, and it's nothing personal, is when there is a kind of a double talk where on the one hand guys like El Cerebro will like what WB is doing but on the other hand he'll dismiss the technology, and iGROW, since it';s inferior to what he';s using. Or that WB's iGROW results are 'tainted by the contribution of the HPS lamp benefiting the iGROW plants' To which I reply, you're right. The results he's getting are tainted by the HPS contribution. But that's not to say the iGROW is at fault.

WB why not at least partition the plants so the light from one or the other does not effect the results? By it's very design in overall size area coverage and energy efficiency the iGROW is going to outproduce the 1000 watt HPS at least in terms of grams/watt. And it would also appear that the buds are of better quality. By simply partitioning off the lights you'll put the kabash on comments like I've seen posted here and on other threads that the results a 'B quality at best', or 'it won't compete with HID' etc etc etc while still, for whatever reason, liking the journal. That I don't get.

Otherwise what is it that we are to learn from your work? That it's going to be a mixture of HPS/iGROW that will deliver the most successful crops? I'm not willing to watch a thread or buy into a technology that would support that approach. Utter lunacy! iGROW does not need that HPS and I hope it's just a matter of time before you can prove it. I'll just have a single iGROW and not the 1000 watt HPS to compare or I'd do it myself.

TTYSTICK- I looked at plasma as a possible option before going with iGROW and like you said the spectrum deficiencies required some other supplement to flower. And at a considerable price to what can be done with an iGROW two lamp option. I don't know how familiar you might be with the chameleon systems but it to is also a plasma which they add red LEDs to in order to enhance flower. And while I would agree it's energy efficient if you look at the price of this system you'll see it's twice the price of the iGROW and it won't cover as large of an area.

http://chameleongrowsystems.com/Solar_Genesis-V.html

But in your case if you decide you're going with a 300 watt plasma system for veg and adding a 1000 watts for flower you certainly would be getting a broad spectrum but at 1300 watts it would not be any kind of energy savings. At least with the chameleon system you keep the wattages down while getting a desirable broad spectrum. I'd just say look into it before you drop that kind of coin because what iGROW has done is give you the best tailored spectrum's at veg and flower for a hell of a lot less money to purchase and operate than a plasma.

When results ring true it's not spamming or shilling. Peace out
 
WeedsterBunny

WeedsterBunny

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WB why not at least partition the plants so the light from one or the other does not effect the results? By it's very design in overall size area coverage and energy efficiency the iGROW is going to outproduce the 1000 watt HPS at least in terms of grams/watt. And it would also appear that the buds are of better quality. By simply partitioning off the lights you'll put the kabash on comments like I've seen posted here and on other threads that the results a 'B quality at best', or 'it won't compete with HID' etc etc etc while still, for whatever reason, liking the journal. That I don't get.
Because this is just a SIMPLE test. I didn't partition it in separate areas because that would effect the flow of air. A/C is on one side of the room that would make the sides different temps, the side with the carbon filter exhaust would obviously be moving air through faster and I'm not willing to try and get that in the middle of the room, I only have one oscillating fan and don't want to have one for each side, etc... It's loud enough in my apartment running as is with air stones and everything else, I'm surprised none of my neighbors have complained about that constant hummmmmmmmm,uuuuuuuummmm of the ocillating. I can barely sleep with it in the next room.

As far as quality, for me right now, it's not as great as the HPS and you would see that if you read through my observations and replies (not saying that somebody could get it dialed in better and get better quality from iGrow). There is the B pheno of the Scott's OG x Headband that does appear to like the iGrow more and produces a better bud structure, frost, and density, but unfortunately that was the last run of that pheno because it is getting narrowed down to the super fire C pheno only.

I don't think anybody is dismissing the technology completely, that's why they are watching threads like this. We just don't like it when somebody jumps on here and starts yelling at us saying that this is the ultimate and best technology ever and that we should all switch and save the world's energy and grow the best bud in the world! Even telling long time HPS fans to make the switch and spends thousands on redoing their system. Not practical scrapping all their knowledge and trying to get a whole new system dialed in.

Do you have a vehicle Sarlacc? Because I don't, I bike. But you don't want me to tell you over and over and over that you should make the switch to a bike because of all the money you are wasting on gas and repairs, not to mention the harm cars bring to our world. Sometimes making the switch with any technology, no matter how amazing the new stuff is, isn't practical or worth doing.
 
Sarlacc

Sarlacc

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You make a lot of good points WB. I wish I didn't have to drive but you're right, like the majority of us I have to drive a car. So I'm not saying I don't contribute to carbon emissions but if I can reduce wattage and not pay ComEd their monthly extortion AND reduce some carbon emissions from lower utility consumption than that's a step in the right direction. Many drops maketh a river.

I didn't mean to sound like I was yelling and I do understand what you're up against in developing a true side by side but the results you're getting are encouraging and that's one of the reasons I was drawn to iGROW in the first place. The other being how many HID lamps I've seen tossed into dumpsters over the years. Keep up the great work and do what I do and turn the TV up. You won't even hear the pumps.
 
WeedsterBunny

WeedsterBunny

60
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Here some close up of the triches :p I took tons of photos and picked the ones that got the best macro, and in no way did I arrange or choose any that shows more or less amber spots to support the theory that the iGrow buds look more amber. You are welcome to believe whatever you wish.

Scott's OG x Headband C pheno under HPS
SH OG HPS 5 zoom


Scott's OG x Headband C Pheno under iGrow
SH OG IND 2 small


Scott's OG x Headband B pheno under HPS
SH OG B HPS small


Scott's OG x Headband B pheno under iGrow
SH OG B IND small

See what I mean by sticky, sticky iGrow buds, the triches are sticking together!

More photos of harvest and nug shots coming soon!
 
El Cerebro

El Cerebro

1,197
113
man you gotta get rid of those gnats, they're messing up some really nice buds. regular use of bti or Cap's foliar should end it..

WB have you ever grown with high-end blue mh? i had similar trich production on my mixed hps/edfl run, but def not to the level of a good hps/mh combo, or even some dual-arc meds i've seen. also i found the edfl effect to be rather limited to the tops, with bling quickly decreasing as i trimmed down the colas (not the answer i wanted, but alas..)
 
monkeymun

monkeymun

755
93
Thanks for taking the time to document your efforts. Nice macro shots, the iGrow grown bud looks top notch!
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
TTYSTICK- I looked at plasma as a possible option before going with iGROW and like you said the spectrum deficiencies required some other supplement to flower. And at a considerable price to what can be done with an iGROW two lamp option. I don't know how familiar you might be with the chameleon systems but it to is also a plasma which they add red LEDs to in order to enhance flower. And while I would agree it's energy efficient if you look at the price of this system you'll see it's twice the price of the iGROW and it won't cover as large of an area.

I believe you misunderstood the lighting I'm planning to install. I like the plasma units, but I am looking at the Gavita Double Ended 1000w HPS system. For details, google 'Gavita Proline 1000DE'. This is an HPS technology that's been updated to produce substantially more light and far longer endurance than conventional screw in single ended HPS lamps. Otherwise, it's pretty similar in terms of spectrum and heat emitted. I hear people are getting some impressive results using plasma as a supplemental source, and I may look into that in the future... when the price comes down.

Because this is just a SIMPLE test. I didn't partition it in separate areas because that would effect the flow of air. A/C is on one side of the room that would make the sides different temps, the side with the carbon filter exhaust would obviously be moving air through faster and I'm not willing to try and get that in the middle of the room, I only have one oscillating fan and don't want to have one for each side, etc... It's loud enough in my apartment running as is with air stones and everything else, I'm surprised none of my neighbors have complained about that constant hummmmmmmmm,uuuuuuuummmm of the ocillating. I can barely sleep with it in the next room.

As far as quality, for me right now, it's not as great as the HPS and you would see that if you read through my observations and replies (not saying that somebody could get it dialed in better and get better quality from iGrow). There is the B pheno of the Scott's OG x Headband that does appear to like the iGrow more and produces a better bud structure, frost, and density, but unfortunately that was the last run of that pheno because it is getting narrowed down to the super fire C pheno only.

I don't think anybody is dismissing the technology completely, that's why they are watching threads like this. We just don't like it when somebody jumps on here and starts yelling at us saying that this is the ultimate and best technology ever and that we should all switch and save the world's energy and grow the best bud in the world! Even telling long time HPS fans to make the switch and spends thousands on redoing their system. Not practical scrapping all their knowledge and trying to get a whole new system dialed in.

Do you have a vehicle Sarlacc? Because I don't, I bike. But you don't want me to tell you over and over and over that you should make the switch to a bike because of all the money you are wasting on gas and repairs, not to mention the harm cars bring to our world. Sometimes making the switch with any technology, no matter how amazing the new stuff is, isn't practical or worth doing.

I like your side by side, as it illustrates how well the two techs play together. This may not be the definitive setup some want, but it's yours, right? Besides, there's always next run...

My airstones don't make much noise, but they're in the bottom of 5 gallon buckets tightly covered with netpot bucket lids, and the damping effects of beards of roots. :D The airpump and fans are a different story, and I would suggest rubber mounts and/or hanging gear from bungee cords to isolate and dampen their vibrations. Often, the noise comes as much from how gear is attached to the room as from the direct output of the pump/fan itself.

When comparing bud quality and structure, it is essential to ensure that the plants in the comparison are getting as near to identical light pressure as possible, and determining that usually takes a pretty expensive light sensing instrument. They can be rented, if you're interested in getting that specific, but it is differences like these that can swamp any comparisons between lights and render the observations unreliable. That said, it is just as important to see how things work when installed as a real world grower would, as opposed to a Ph.D in physics working for the company. Or Squiggly. :eek: I kid, brother!

Your aside about riding a bicycle resonates with me; I HATE how much power I use, for environmental reasons just as much as for the gaping hole drilled in my wallet. This is why I use a chiller to cool my setup, as it's roughly twice as efficient as AC. It's also eliminating the need to burn natural gas to heat my home all winter! My desire to tread lightly is why I have never bought a car newer than 20 years old. I believe in driving an old car and taking care of it instead of subsidizing the monumental environmental destruction of new car production. I know it isn't the whole solution, but I live in a city where it gets cold (currently 2 degrees F, or -17 C) and I often have to carpool. It is, therefore, the best solution I can afford and still be able to get around in the world as it is. I also bike when I can.

For those who don't know, Colorado is the third largest coal producing state in the US, after West Virginia and Wyoming. Every coal train that rumbles through town reminds me of just how much of that shit our industry is burning every day, nevermind the mess of the coal mining operations themselves. NASTY...
 
Sarlacc

Sarlacc

54
8
WB those shots you put up of the OG x Headband under the iGROW definitely are frostier than the HPS. Size wise they look equal but what's not to like about that? Great job on showing what the iGROW can do! Should be a strong finish.

El Cerebro perhaps the upper branch development you're seeing on your iGROW could be improved with you trying a SOG on your next run with LST and SuperCropping to take advantage of the larger footprint the iGROW affords you. If the HPS is delivering better lower branch development on a dense canopy, equal between the two, it's coming at a cost in terms of higher watts and heat from the HPS. I bet a SOG garden with squat trees would give you bottoms that look like your tops. Just a thought.

ttystikk I looked at the site and you're right I mistook what you said for a sulfur plasma being combined with the dual ended 1000 watt HPS lamp. But since this lamp is only rated for 10K hours and still does nothing to reduce the wattage or heat I don't see the advantages at all. I found a Phillips link that if you check out the EL lamps specs. 10K hours is no great shake hear. Especially when replacement lamps cost $170.00 ea. They also contain 42mg of Mercury which when you compare to an iGROW at only 5mg and 10X the rated life would leads me to suggest you take another look at the iGROW EFDL for not only the environmental reasons but to take a bit out of the utilities pocket while slaying your crop production for the next ten years. Again great job WB for showing everyone the possibilities!

http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.com/l/oem/hid-systems/high-pressure-sodium/horti/928196305116_eu/

Have a great weekend. peace out guys
 
WeedsterBunny

WeedsterBunny

60
33
man you gotta get rid of those gnats, they're messing up some really nice buds. regular use of bti or Cap's foliar should end it..

WB have you ever grown with high-end blue mh? i had similar trich production on my mixed hps/edfl run, but def not to the level of a good hps/mh combo, or even some dual-arc meds i've seen. also i found the edfl effect to be rather limited to the tops, with bling quickly decreasing as i trimmed down the colas (not the answer i wanted, but alas..)
Thanks everybody, I enjoy the feedback for sure. Let's not get on the subject of our personal energy use outside of the grow rooms though, I was only bringing up the bike thing to prove a point about practicality.

There really are only a few gnats flying around, nothing extreme, I try and keep them down with a little spray when they go into flower but I don't like to spray once there is flower forming. I have a few sticky traps around that also aid. How bad are the gnats? I've tried to find more info on them but I thought they only feed on dead matter in the top of the soil and the holes underneath, not anything that would affect bud production. Lemme know.

I've never grown with anything but the 1000w HPS until I picked up the iGrow.

I have a buddy who just sent some ladies into flower using only one iGrow in a closet. He has done it before and got decent production. I'll see if I can snag some pics when he's finishing up for the stand alone results.
 
WeedsterBunny

WeedsterBunny

60
33
Here's those cured comparison pics of the GTH#1 A pheno (sadly retired cause it's not the best pheno)
IMG 1700


The room before the OG's came down. You can see the OG plants definitely were getting residual light (even a portion of direct light). But you can see the nugs directly under the iGrow are still impressive. But for tests, the previous GTH's were the more reliable that were on the far sides of the room.
IMG 1523


And here's the harvest pics from the Scott's OG x Headband.
HPS on the left, iGrow on the right.
IMG 1670

Closer pic of the HPS
IMG 1672

more HPS big leafed
IMG 1684

iGrow on top of the lighter, HPS on the bottom
IMG 1686

iGrow on the left, HPS on the right
IMG 1687


And finally a sneak preview of a later thread I'll start. My lovely, multiple strain grafted plant ;) (I have successfully grafted, taken clones from the grafted branches, and flowered a few times in the past). She's a little scrunchy because she has had a plastic bag on her. Save your questions about this for a few weeks until I start a new thread, this thread is for the comparison.
IMG 1689
 
El Cerebro

El Cerebro

1,197
113
I have a buddy who just sent some ladies into flower using only one iGrow in a closet. He has done it before and got decent production. I'll see if I can snag some pics when he's finishing up for the stand alone results.
please, that'll be interesting. is he running any of the same clones?
 

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