High THCV strains and breeding them

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Brendanpre

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I've been wondering that too! Lol.

All I know is that these strains that are supposed to produce thcv can get real trippy if you find a good plant/grow.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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Just sent an email to Ace Seeds, they are almost neighbours anyway.
And a question.
If THCV is not psychoactive, how come it supposedly is responsable for the trippy effect ?
I can understand a clean, clear, energetic effect but trippy sounds very psychoactive.



i think the answer lies in the entourage effect. I dont think one isolated cannabinoid does much of anything great. But with the proper “recipe” in a plant watch out!
 
Brendanpre

Brendanpre

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I think this could also be what's contributing to the flat boring high with so many of the modern high THC strains. Some of those older strains reported to only have like 12-15% thc punched well above their weight in terms of high...
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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I think this could also be what's contributing to the flat boring high with so many of the modern high THC strains. Some of those older strains reported to only have like 12-15% thc punched well above their weight in terms of high...


me too. And i think cannabinoids we have not isolated yet play an important role and we are going in circles with research still until we can identify them all.
 
Poekie

Poekie

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Just sent an email to Ace Seeds, they are almost neighbours anyway.
And a question.
If THCV is not psychoactive, how come it supposedly is responsable for the trippy effect ?
I can understand a clean, clear, energetic effect but trippy sounds very psychoactive.
Already got an answer from ACE.
IMG 20210114 1010102
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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I really hope this thread doesn't just die off, like so many others, before we manage to find at least some answers.

Hi Brendan,

I am really happy to have people with more experience than me to bounce ideas off. It's truly helpful to work this stuff and not be in my own echo chamber with just my books.

As far as dying off, I can't promise this thread will still be shiny a year from now, but I can promise you I will not quit. It may end up just the 2 of us lol. This is my passion and the nights get boring if all you have is TV to look forward to. I'm good for 20 hours during the week and another 15 over the weekends working on this stuff.

I've been accused many times of having no chill in the sense that once I get a bone in my mouth I don't let go. I'm an engineer by training and brain chemistry so figuring stuff like this out to make something new is what I do to relax. Can't help it.

I have several videos that need to be posted in the works right now. I've got a series on how to make concentrates using a rotovap nearly ready, and the TLC testing from last night is nearly done too. I'd be obliged to anyone who looks at what I am doing and let me know if I am making mistakes, missing something, or there is a better approach. You guys can be my anti-tunnel vision team.

Cheers!
 
Milson

Milson

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I think this could also be what's contributing to the flat boring high with so many of the modern high THC strains. Some of those older strains reported to only have like 12-15% thc punched well above their weight in terms of high...
Think cbg is the fun, not thcv.
 
Milson

Milson

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Hey Moe, Milson and everyone else in this thread.

I just want to say that I'm really excited about this thread. Like really excited. Lol.

I have never read any threads on thcv that go this in depth and actually include access to a private "lab" and use some sort of actual science to validate claims. Never mind an OP that is so willing to put up cash, time and resources to test various strains, theories and environmental variables!

I really hope this thread doesn't just die off, like so many others, before we manage to find at least some answers.

Please keep up the great work being done guys.
You can see my diary for more explanation, but I'll be puttering around with these plants for a while. I love this.

But ya gotta be really, really patient.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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The thcv content is determined by genetics and not ambient factors.

Thanks for this. Here is my plan:

Continue growing these 2 Jack the Rippers well past normal harvest time and measure weekly to see if THCV increases as the flowers mature.

Continue testing on Decarb

Performing comparison TLC testing with "standard" strains like the Northern Lights in the tent with the JtR. I expect our target strain to show a significantly higher dot of THCV than normal high THC cultivars.

Purchasing what we determine is the most likely THCV candidate(s) from reputable sources and perform the same extensive testing throughout.

Find the one with the highest THCV with what I have to work with

Make a mother

Send clones to everyone on this thread that wants them. I'm especially hoping some advanced dirt growers want to do this since I am hydro

Perform testing on the results from the clones for anyone who will give me a sample.

Listen for other ideas!
 
Milson

Milson

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I have the Pakistan Valley seeds. I think their numbers are total bullshit but that's a lot of south african gear.
 
Milson

Milson

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I'm feeling like it will take a stroke of luck to get a good mom out of this endeavor.
If you pick through 5 ethiopian moms from Ace, at least one will have the goods. That is my hypothesis.

I have been daydreaming about a breeding plan. Will be posting when I get to a computer to actually type.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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If you pick through 5 ethiopian moms from Ace, at least one will have the goods. That is my hypothesis.

I have been daydreaming about a breeding plan. Will be posting when I get to a computer to actually type.

You wanna go halves and get all 5 and get started on this?
 
Milson

Milson

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You wanna go halves and get all 5 and get started on this?
So this is not my primary goal and while it would be interesting in the future it is not what most grabs my attention right now.

Here is my rough idea:

There is some gene or much more likely series of genes that are expressed in a population of lets say Durban Poison that account for the highest percentage of THCV in the cannabinoid mixture.

You grow out a population of let's say 10. Test them all for THCV.

You will have a data set with a min, a max, and a mean. Given that this is an IBL, you should not expect much of a distance above the mean for the population because it should mostly breed true. You take a girl from there. Let's say you get one with 2% THCV on a 20% total cannabinoids or 10% of the cannabinoids are THCV.

You do the same with the Ethiopian. Get that same 2 percent number.

You cross these.

When growing the F1s, I would expect you to find phenotypes with THCV numbers above that 2% number because of hybrid vigor. Here is one discussion of hybrid vigor. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5210733/

However, where the real fun would come in is in the F2 generation. The reason for this is the expression of potential good double recessives along with the genetic material to cover up potential bad double recessive expressions ALONG WITH the potential other vigor factors one finds in hybrid vigor plants.

So you find a unicorn in that F2 generation. THERE IS NO POINT IN GOING BEYOND F2 FOR JUST FINDING ONE SPECIAL PLANT. This is at least according to my understanding.....but the best you will do with those F1 parents will be found in F2 imo and further breeding is for stabilization within the population, not for individual freak plants.

So if you find a freak in your F2 generation, then what?

Then you do this whole song and dance with another two strains (let's say Hawaiian and another South African) and cross two F2 freaks to get hybrid vigor again and see if you can drive it up that way.

The numbers you need to statistically find the perfect freak at the F2 generation get into the 100s very quickly the more genes you assume contribute to THCV.

That is, roughly speaking, I think what one would do.

Now, you may ask, what is my focus then?

More or less, I am doing the same thing, but not focused on one set of genes applying to a cannabinoid so much as effects that fall along three categories: Functional energy (which has serious overlap with THCV I suspect), meditative (this is code for trippy), and narcotic (pain relief/sleep).

Right now, tbh, my interest is on the meditative/trippy side. Hence I am exploring cultivars from Colombia, Malawi, Thailand, Panama, and whichever country Bangi Haze is from (one of the Congos....I do not know how to specify this correctly because I am ignorant). I do expect to find some more functionality as well, especially from the Panamanian and Colombian.

However, in the future I do plan to look for more clear-headed highs. At that point I will be popping Durban Poison from Authentic Genetics (technically by Mel Frank) and that will begin my hunch of where to find THCV. And I will be testing my cultivars throughout, especially with the awesome help you are providing with your posts and videos!
 
Last edited:
Milson

Milson

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So this is not my primary goal and while it would be interesting in the future it is not what most grabs my attention right now.

Here is my rough idea:

There is some gene or much more likely series of genes that are expressed in a population of lets say Durban Poison that account for the highest percentage of THCV in the cannabinoid mixture.

You grow out a population of let's say 10. Test them all for THCV.

You will have a data set with a min, a max, and a mean. Given that this is an IBL, you should not expect much of a distance above the mean for the population because it should mostly breed true. You take a girl from there. Let's say you get one with 2% THCV on a 20% total cannabinoids or 10% of the cannabinoids are THCV.

You do the same with the Ethiopian. Get that same 2 percent number.

You cross these.

When growing the F1s, I would expect you to find phenotypes with THCV numbers above that 2% number because of hybrid vigor. Here is one discussion of hybrid vigor. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5210733/

However, where the real fun would come in is in the F2 generation. The reason for this is the expression of potential good double recessives along with the genetic material to cover up potential bad double recessive expressions ALONG WITH the potential other vigor factors one finds in hybrid vigor plants.

So you find a unicorn in that F2 generation. THERE IS NO POINT IN GOING BEYOND F2 FOR JUST FINDING ONE SPECIAL PLANT. This is at least according to my understanding.....but the best you will do with those F1 parents will be found in F2 imo and further breeding is for stabilization within the population, not for individual freak plants.

So if you find a freak in your F2 generation, then what?

Then you do this whole song and dance with another two strains (let's say Hawaiian and another South African) and cross two F2 freaks to get hybrid vigor again and see if you can drive it up that way.

The numbers you need to statistically find the perfect freak at the F2 generation get into the 100s very quickly the more genes you assume contribute to THCV.

That is, roughly speaking, I think what one would do.

Now, you may ask, what is my focus then?

More or less, I am doing the same thing, but not focused on one set of genes applying to a cannabinoid so much as effects that fall along three categories: Functional energy (which has serious overlap with THCV I suspect), meditative (this is code for trippy), and narcotic (pain relief/sleep).

Right now, tbh, my interest is on the meditative/trippy side. Hence I am exploring cultivars from Colombia, Malawi, Thailand, Panama, and whichever country Bangi Haze is from (one of the Congos....I do not know how to specify this correctly because I am ignorant). I do expect to find some more functionality as well, especially from the Panamanian and Colombian.

However, in the future I do plan to look for more clear-headed highs. At that point I will be popping Durban Poison from Authentic Genetics (technically by Mel Frank) and that will begin my hunch of where to find THCV. And I will be testing my cultivars throughout, especially with the awesome help you are providing with your posts and videos!
Screenshot 2021 01 14 at 112030 AM


is where that paper starts getting meaty for breeding purposes.

 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Now, you may ask, what is my focus then?

More or less, I am doing the same thing, but not focused on one set of genes applying to a cannabinoid so much as effects that fall along three categories: Functional energy (which has serious overlap with THCV I suspect), meditative (this is code for trippy), and narcotic (pain relief/sleep).

Dude, your skills and knowledge surpass mine by far in this area. I will be watching your results closely!

From my humble experience with THCV so far (Durban Poison) sleep is not a likely result. It actually makes my wife a bit jittery. Other than that, I think you are on the money.

If there is any help I can provide in your enterprise, please let me know.
 
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