Second attempt with Massive - now with less PK

hawkman · Apr 10, 2023

Aqua Man said:
Not sure if its been said but with massive you want to run veg ratios if nutrients and add the massive. Massive is the PK boost and contains triacontanol which is a natural PGR.

if you run bloom ratios and add massive you will be far to heavy on PK and far to lean on N

Are we talking about MassiveBloom ? If so have used this product and still do - it works - yea ! for triacontanol - for home made = Kelp, alafla meal, emenzynes and humic acid (some add ash - also)) brew for 24hrs and you have it a Natural Plant Growth Stimulator !!! (But I only use it in flower- Massive Bloom) Do you want a few good PK products ?

SSgrower · Apr 10, 2023

I use the Massive bloom 1-2-3 and appreciate the imput, been using 10ml every other feeding. SSgrower

CookiesLikeWhoa · Apr 11, 2023

F39

All the tents are looking great. Slurricane is showing some fade. Think F39 is a little early for fade, but we will keep an eye on it.

They are certainly getting frosty.

As stated a couple of days ago they normally drink 7-7.5g of water a day. The first day of switching to the 1200PPM water they drank 8 gallons. The next day they drank 12.5 gallons. They almost finished the res in 2 days.

To be fair, it has been much warmer this last week, than the previous weeks, so that will certainly increase transpiration. They seem to be overall a bit lighter than a couple days ago comparing the pictures. Made another res at 1200PPM. Will keep an eye on them. Curious to see if they continue to get lighter.

Temp: 86F
RH: 55%
PPFD: ~1000ish
PPM:1200
Ph: 6.2

Dirtbag · Apr 12, 2023

CookiesLikeWhoa said:
F39View attachment 1350187 View attachment 1350188 View attachment 1350189

All the tents are looking great. Slurricane is showing some fade. Think F39 is a little early for fade, but we will keep an eye on it.View attachment 1350190

They are certainly getting frosty.

As stated a couple of days ago they normally drink 7-7.5g of water a day. The first day of switching to the 1200PPM water they drank 8 gallons. The next day they drank 12.5 gallons. They almost finished the res in 2 days.

To be fair, it has been much warmer this last week, than the previous weeks, so that will certainly increase transpiration. They seem to be overall a bit lighter than a couple days ago comparing the pictures. Made another res at 1200PPM. Will keep an eye on them. Curious to see if they continue to get lighter.

Temp: 86F
RH: 55%
PPFD: ~1000ish
PPM:1200
Ph:

They are showing all sort of signs of overfeeding and nutrient ratios being out of wack. I don't think what you're seeing is fading as much as it is just, what happens to plants in the last half of flower, especially with a wacky nutrient load. You've got a lot going on in that res. And that temp is much higher than I'd like to run at without gas.

Either way, if you feel they need more food, go for it, don't listen to me. You do you.

SSgrower · Apr 12, 2023

Yes, I taper off my ec as the 7th week begins, just saves me money, and is smarter in my opinion. Flush salts not nutes! SS

CookiesLikeWhoa · Apr 12, 2023

Dirtbag said:
They are showing all sort of signs of overfeeding and nutrient ratios being out of wack. I don't think what you're seeing is fading as much as it is just, what happens to plants in the last half of flower, especially with a wacky nutrient load. You've got a lot going on in that res. And that temp is much higher than I'd like to run at without gas.

Either way, if you feel they need more food, go for it, don't listen to me. You do you.

Sorry that was meant as an attack or anything. Honestly my wife and I have only been growing for 2 years now. This is our 13th grow and our best yet. (If that's saying anything)

We aren't as experienced with growing and often see changes but don't full understand what's going on behind the scenes. Here I try to vocalize what I see in hopes someone with way more experience, such as yourself, can chime in and provide helpful context.

We think the plants are enjoying the lower PPM's much more. The fact they drank over 20 gallons in two days says a lot to us.

As far as the temps go; Lights are on from 6PM to 6AM to help keep temps under control. We go out there right as lights are on, it's still Sunny out and warmer. By the time the sun goes down they drop to 75-77F. The temps are more a reflection of that time then the actual all lights on temp.

We want to run CO2 in all the tents, but, idk we feel kinda ashamed to run it? We know we don't have the skills to maximize the CO2 and don't want to waste it. The Slurricane tent still has CO2 and I think that's why it's doing the best, but again not experienced enough to know.

Dirtbag · Apr 13, 2023

CookiesLikeWhoa said:
Sorry that was meant as an attack or anything. Honestly my wife and I have only been growing for 2 years now. This is our 13th grow and our best yet. (If that's saying anything)

We aren't as experienced with growing and often see changes but don't full understand what's going on behind the scenes. Here I try to vocalize what I see in hopes someone with way more experience, such as yourself, can chime in and provide helpful context.

We think the plants are enjoying the lower PPM's much more. The fact they drank over 20 gallons in two days says a lot to us.

As far as the temps go; Lights are on from 6PM to 6AM to help keep temps under control. We go out there right as lights are on, it's still Sunny out and warmer. By the time the sun goes down they drop to 75-77F. The temps are more a reflection of that time then the actual all lights on temp.

We want to run CO2 in all the tents, but, idk we feel kinda ashamed to run it? We know we don't have the skills to maximize the CO2 and don't want to waste it. The Slurricane tent still has CO2 and I think that's why it's doing the best, but again not experienced enough to know.

All good, I didn't take it as anything like that, I just didn't want to be micromanaging your grow, or honestly be held responsible if things took a turn for the worse.

Ppm is one of those things that I generally keep fairly low. Any time I've gone over about 1.5ec or 750ppm on the 0.5 scale I've had more issues than anything. Keeping them between 1.2-1.4 in a vented flower room at around 1000-1100ppfd usually gives me pretty dialed in results. That's also keeping the nutrients very simple.

With regard to your plants drinking more, that's to be expected with the reduction in ec and to me a sign that youve done the right thing.
The ppm of the nutrient solution controls the osmotic pressure on the roots. Osmosis pulls water from a less concentrated solution to a more concentrated solution.
In the case of plant roots, they are full of nutrients and carbohydrates inside the root which generally has a higher concentration of dissolved solids than the nutrient solution itself, so water moves into the plant. As the concentration of nutrients in solution gets higher, the difference in concentration of dissolved solids inside and outside the root becomes less, and so water movement through the root membrane slows down. If nutrient ppm gets too high, it can actually pull water out of the plant.
If nutrient levels are lower, you get a lot more water entering the plant roots. Obviously it's important not to go too low on ppm for the sake of plant health, you still need enough nutrients. But in the last half of flower without using Co2, 1.2-1.3ec is generally more than enough.

SSgrower · Apr 13, 2023

Here on the Farm we give the best advise from someone who grows like the questioner and hope to help "Your grow". SSgrower

SSgrower · Apr 13, 2023

Dirtbag said:
They are showing all sort of signs of overfeeding and nutrient ratios being out of wack. I don't think what you're seeing is fading as much as it is just, what happens to plants in the last half of flower, especially with a wacky nutrient load. You've got a lot going on in that res. And that temp is much higher than I'd like to run at without gas.

Either way, if you feel they need more food, go for it, don't listen to me. You do you.

As Dirtbag stated: If we get too involved and the grow still goes sour, we feel responsibility and that we must avoid. He said "you do you" because it's the best way, for you. Not being there at the grow hurts our ability to "coach" or Mentor. SSgrower

CookiesLikeWhoa · Apr 15, 2023

F44

Start with the Slurricane tent. Shit's kinda everywhere but those tips are LIT.

Slurricane herself is looking lit.

LMC.

Grape Gas:

Gorilla Breath:

LMC Tent. The lone Jelly Breath is starting to get to heavy for her self.

Can see why:

Grape Gas tent starting to fade.

Main Cola of the Jelly Breath that hermed the hardest:

Main cola of the Jelly Breath that threw 0 balls.

It's been a bit cooler so that's been good. Dropped the PPM's more to 1000. Tips lit up in all the tents lol. Seems like all the excess salts in the coco are starting to take effect? Either way, we are now into week six and things are looking good. Bit more out of control than we'd like, but it's our first run with massive that wasn't a complete flop.

Temp: 81F
RH: 50%
PPFD: ~1000ish
PPM:1000
Ph: 6.0

SSgrower · Apr 17, 2023

Niceee! I got to 6 weeks on my Bruce Banner and it threw nanners, still watching the suspect 4x4 tent. SSgrower using Green Plant Massive 1-2-3 and Foop bloom nutes #2

CookiesLikeWhoa · Apr 18, 2023

F47

Jelly Breath 4:

Jelly Breath 2(Hermmed):

Grape Gas She's a little cooked.
:

Jelly Breath 5:

Lemmon Cherry Gelato:

Slurricane:

Banana Splitz:

Lemmon Cherry Gelato (Other tent):

Gorilla Breath:

Grape Gas, less cooked:

Closing in on the end of week 6. Still dropping the PPM's. They are responding very well. Tons of new calix growth, drinking 10-11 gallons of water a day. We think the light might be a bit much, but keeping an eye on them. Most of them have between 2-3 weeks left. The only real exceptions are the Banana Splitz and grape gas. Both of those are recommend 56 day chops. Will check the trichomes when we get there though.

Temp: 79F
RH: 50%
PPFD: ~1000ish
PPM: 900
Ph: 5.9