12/12 grow from seeds: what do you think?

[dutchman]

Have you ever tried or heard of the 12/12 system starting with seeds? That means you plant regular seeds and set thme under 12 hours of light onl from the very beginning to end. No 18 hours, never.

Some people say it is fabulous, same don't. Do you have any experiences? It is described here:

 

[jkbeing]

When I grow 10 seeds. 5 get tossed for being male. 5 get flower out and 3 get thrown away for being sub par from the 2 keepers. When you learn to dial the remaining 2 in, they could be awesome. So unless you have super stable seeds, at least half your harvest is going to be subpar.
Also I've kinda seen that it takes about 3 months of veg for a seed to truely mature before it gave it's true pot-ential. Some do mature a bit faster for sure.

 

[dutchman]

When I grow 10 seeds. 5 get tossed for being male. 5 get flower out and 3 get thrown away for being sub par from the 2 keepers. When you learn to dial the remaining 2 in, they could be awesome. So unless you have super stable seeds, at least half your harvest is going to be subpar.
Also I've kinda seen that it takes about 3 months of veg for a seed to truely mature before it gave it's true pot-ential. Some do mature a bit faster for sure.

Off course you have to use superstable seeds, F4 at least, better F6. No F1 shit....

With optimal conditions you can get more tha 60% female

 

[jkbeing]

If we are talking optimal conditions, then I think we're talking clones and happy mothers.

 

[caregiverken]

Have you ever tried or heard of the 12/12 system starting with seeds? That means you plant regular seeds and set thme under 12 hours of light onl from the very beginning to end. No 18 hours, never.

Some people say it is fabulous, same don't. Do you have any experiences? It is described here:

cool I read it..
very interesting

I want to hear what others think also

 

[dutchman]

If we are talking optimal conditions, then I think we're talking clones and happy mothers.

Yeah, that is what I thought too, but here in NL many people are switching to that seed system, buing seeds cheap in bulk. Clones are out. They say plants from seeds are healthier.Peolpe buy maybe 200 feminized seeds for 2-3 Euros

I am not connected with nomercy, btw....

 

[caregiverken]

Seeds are More Vigorous (imo)
But like you said, they have to be stable(you need to be able to trust your breeder)
..or, they may not all be worth your time and effort in the end.

 

[Classic Remix]

ok jkbeing is being 100% biased without even having a truthful knowledgable opinion on the fact...

12/12/ from seed is fucking awesome for sativa-ish stable hybrids. when people say you need a plant to mature before flip, they simply havent tried anything and dont know shit. you can blast like 200 beans under a single K, and have seen people hit close to a G per watt. usually bought a foot tall plants with nugs straight to the dirt, (right strains obviously) you will get the occasional weak one that only spits out an inch or two of nugs.

but it is PERFECTLY do-able, perfectly safe, anybody that says different is total bullshit. i have seen SUCCESSFULL 12/12 from seed runs, mutlitple times from a dude in San Diego.

if you're poppin you're own beans and make a run with fuckin ten thousand... i'd say do that shit all day haha. no reason to get sentimental over beans.... to think all are keepers is kind of bland...just grow some out and smoke some out... thats it! haha.

do it!

 

[bckwht]

i agree that it can be done and easily at that..matter of fact the very first grow i completed was 12/12 seed in perlite/vermiculite hempy with the lucas formula..at that point in time i just wanted to grow some killer chronic and figured this was the best/simplist method for ME to start with..i have moved on since then but to answer your question, YES it can be done and its as easy as it gets imo...classic said it exactly right, nugs from top to bottom haha my plants yielded right around an oz per 1-1.5gal under a 400w at that time..some plants did a lil better than others but its that way in any style of growing

to add to this, the seeds i used back then were just killer bagseed i had kept..i can imagine the results will be even better with some good, solid genetics

 

[jkbeing]

ok jkbeing is being 100% biased without even having a truthful knowledgable opinion on the fact....

I am.

 

[dutchman]

ok jkbeing is being 100% biased without even having a truthful knowledgable opinion on the fact...

12/12/ from seed is fucking awesome for sativa-ish stable hybrids. when people say you need a plant to mature before flip, they simply havent tried anything and dont know shit. you can blast like 200 beans under a single K, and have seen people hit close to a G per watt. usually bought a foot tall plants with nugs straight to the dirt, (right strains obviously) you will get the occasional weak one that only spits out an inch or two of nugs.

but it is PERFECTLY do-able, perfectly safe, anybody that says di

Good to hear that from somebody else but Cees.....But I think the kind of seeds are important: stable and at least 25% sativa. Cees had very good results with a 25%sativa 75% indica: those are the plants in the link. But he only uses F4-F8

 

[mack 10]

Hi,I've done this before too. i agree it work's too, but the yeild is mostly strain derived. I'm gonna try flipping from the 5th/7th node where the plant starts to grow fully mature 5 or 7 fingered leaf's.(so like 10-15 day veg from seed)I think the yield will be much better? but this test will teach me plenty. i'm testing Sativa dom hybrids and some diferent indica hybrids, so let's see which turn's out the best.they will be grown SoG style.
A lot of hybrids will show a preflower at the 5th to 7th node.So their must be a reason for this? maybe the plant is telling you she is ready to flower? or she wants to try an catch some early pollen?
mack.

 

[dutchman]

I'm gonna try flipping from the 5th/7th node where the plant starts to grow fully mature 5 or 7 fingered leaf's.(so like 10-15 day veg from seed)I think the yield will be much better? but this test will teach me plenty.

The whole idea is NOT doing this with the veg period. But check it out and we will see

 

[mack 10]

this method will(i hope) give just enough time to grow and clone the lowest 2 sets of branches then flip.
mack.

 

[dutchman]

Hi,I've done this before too. i agree it work's too, but the yeild is mostly strain derived. .

Friends just found out that the kind of lightning determines how many males and females come out. best is to use new metal halide HPT lightning from the beginning. Using Phillips Agro or Osram Planta with more red spectrum will get us a lot more males!

 

[dutchman]

Good to hear that from somebody else but Cees.....But I think the kind of seeds are important: stable and at least 25% sativa. Cees had very good results with a 25%sativa 75% indica: those are the plants in the link. But he only uses F4-F8

What I have seen now except the pics from Cees is NOT very promising....plants seem to be under constant stress with 12/12 and the people trying this out are all the time wondering waht is going wrong next. Definetley NOT a normal healthy grow. From 150 seeds only maybe 5-10 seem to like this procedure and grow healthy green. The rest looks weak, massive root problems, yellowing, red petiols, that means difficulties in nitrogen uptake etc.

Same in pictures from other forums about 12/12: unhealthy looking plants with a mediocre yield and always very red petiols and kind of yellowing....

No wonder: plants want to grow veg for a while and NOT to flower from the first minute on. They can not develop strong roots. So I can not recommend this.

 

[Seamaiden]

Friends just found out that the kind of lightning determines how many males and females come out. best is to use new metal halide HPT lightning from the beginning. Using Phillips Agro or Osram Planta with more red spectrum will get us a lot more males!

Jesus... how does that compare to the Big Metal Halide in the Sky?

See, this is my very first time EVER starting seeds indoors. I do seed runs every year, but outside. They get the natural photoperiod from the moment they pop (I'm at 34*N). Now I'm doing it in my room, under controlled conditions. I wasn't sure about anything else, but I do have a mother (clone) so I'm using the interrupted photoperiod I use for putting clones out. Seeds it's never been an issue, I just wait for them to show sex, then the girls go in one place and the boys in another. It never occurred to me that more than whether or not the plant flowers might be being controlled not only by photoperiod, but by wavelengths.

On the other hand, wouldn't the heavy Sativas be perfectly happy with a 12/12 photoperiod from the start? Being tropical, equatorial in origin and all.

In any event, I'm using a MH bulb (can't recall the Kelvin rating, I think it's around 4,000K) and a T5 rig, daylight bulbs. Am I going to end up with a buttload of males due to the lighting, or am I misunderstanding what you've written?

Thanks!

Btw, I have a longtime online friend in Eindhoven, and she's often posting up stories about Phillips. Good manufacturer.

 

[dutchman]

Jesus... how does that compare to the Big Metal Halide in the Sky?

On the other hand, wouldn't the heavy Sativas be perfectly happy with a 12/12 photoperiod from the start? Being tropical, equatorial in origin and all.

In any event, I'm using a MH bulb (can't recall the Kelvin rating, I think it's around 4,000K) and a T5 rig, daylight bulbs. Am I going to end up with a buttload of males due to the lighting, or am I misunderstanding what you've written?

.

When doing 12/12 you are as far away from nature as you can possibly go....
The plants want to grow before they switch into reproduction mode......would you like it to be forced to make a baby when you are just out of your mothers womb? This 12/12 is like a nasty kind of chicken farm to me, no good feeling...

I do not know about the sativas, but also they want to grow before they reproduce. And we DO NOT have real sativas in our grows here, I would say max is 80 % sativa, kali Mist, never more. Most what is called "sativa" is about 60% sativa and 40% Indica. If you grow a real sativa here indoors you will wait 4 month and have a 4 m plant...

But when you do that you should definetly start with a metal halide lamp, Phillps or GIB are the best. With the white/ blue MH light you may increase your female ratio up to 70%. And yes, compared to sunlight you get more females....

Using sodium prssure lamps, even when they are labelled "grow" as osram planta or Phillips Agro is a NONO in the beginning. Later you can switch to sodium pressure, after 3 weeks or so.

 

[caveman4.20]

Lmao I grow with twelve hours on and one hour inbetween darkperiod

 

[caveman4.20]

Time to flower remove the one hour in dark period