caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
You must be upset what's wrong?
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Which one looks sad ?
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Looks big but it's curing out to be fluffy all the ones with small flowers are super dense? It's a homemade cross...
D
dutchman
- 88
- 18
It seems you need adapted strains for that 12/ 12 experiment...
Seamaiden
Living dead girl
- 23,596
- 638
What Nutts describes sounds like what happened to me last year with this one seed start. It began flowering at the 2nd node, grew a tiny, maybe 1" bud--ALL OUTSIDE. It was dead inside of 2 months. I was told that's an autoflower for ya.
D
dutchman
- 88
- 18
They look as happy as they can be under 12/12. It is really good work. I know only one person, a weed magician named Cees who can grow really happy 12/ 12 strains where the females look like they want to fuck with you.......here is pic of his Double Fun grown on Hydrodensa in 12/12
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Check out my Gas Lantern or Diminishing light thread i have an article there somewhere about Circadian rhythm very interesting as far as understanding why the plants grow well with these cycles
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
very nice pic...and grow i agree that not all plants will be grown to the best of their god given dna but many plants grow healthy in this environment and some do appear better than others after smoking so much consistent quality from these harvest all the medicine comes out with high medicinal effect...yield is over rated to me but if yield is whats required than sure i bet you'll find one......nothing is concrete with cannabis, but i will vouch for this, any reputable big commercial yielder will also yield well with this method and compete with what i call my big yielders but i will not say mine or the other will be the best
peace out
Nutts
- 255
- 43
I did grow a seed 12/12 from start and it was a waste of time. For me anyway. I guess it all depends on what you want in the end. I do t want three hundred six inch plants. I want ten that bring a little over a qp dry each. So he's 12/12 works. But for someone like me it's a waste of time. The one I grew grew like a bong hit.
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
lol....im just trying to do what i can with as least amount of electricity
sun
- 1,266
- 113
Hey Caveman , arent you growing some bad ass sativa? You considered keeping the right mom under cfl , & flipping clones as soon as they are rooted .No veg ,low bill.( long flowering sat =no veg nessary)
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
I have nothing pure but plenty of Sat dom. and maybe me but if the post was before my profile says then it was not me.....i waited quite a while before the caveman before me stoped posting for me to start caveman4.20
its a good idea but i wouldnt have planned the cfl thing if it was me the cfl part was cuz it was convenient for a specific scenario which i havent been in for awhile but sounds like a decent plan cuz im flowering sat dominants right now in Diminishing light flower thread and im finishing up sat dominant phenos faster and faster.......i guess that was my winded version of maybe that was me....peace and love the avatar and handle
its a good idea but i wouldnt have planned the cfl thing if it was me the cfl part was cuz it was convenient for a specific scenario which i havent been in for awhile but sounds like a decent plan cuz im flowering sat dominants right now in Diminishing light flower thread and im finishing up sat dominant phenos faster and faster.......i guess that was my winded version of maybe that was me....peace and love the avatar and handle
O
Oldseed
- 9
- 3
Hello Green Friends,
I don´t know if you guys going to read this reply one year after but after reading your posts i had to sign up the forum just to answer you all.
So first of all, all im gonna say is based on my direct experience. And in summary the 12/12 from seed system is the best, the fastest, the most natural and most easy way to grow your crop on 1gr per watt with conossour quality.
I explain all of it.
So first, as one of you said that the 12/12 is the most far away posible from nature, i have to say that that is the most far away from true. Cause its the oposite.
So the 18 hour light period, it only happens in nature on the poles, so only ruderalis would take it naturally. For ALL the other species, 18 hour period is allready a bit stress to the plant, but she can handle it.
On against, in the TROPICS from where most of cannabis wild species thrive, the NATURAL LIGHT PERIOD is 12/12 the ALL YEAR. Can you get more natural and stressless to plants than 12/12 from seed as they get on the tropics?
I don´t think so. ANY change on light period will represent stress to the plant, cause our devices do not imitate nature perfectly.
Now, let´s talk about METABOLISM. and PLANT INFORMATION.
So the plant information is the DATA you give to the plants about their envoirement, such as light, soil space and nutrients, water, ph, temperature, etc. The most powerfull one is the light period.
So when you give your indica or sativa plants 18 hours of light a day, what are you telling to your plants? what are they thinking?
You are telling them that the days are huuuge so, she as all the time in the world to grow and develop biomass for latter flowering. And so she does her growth in a normal rythm, and most important of all, she develops ALL HER METABOLISM in to vegetation mode. That means, all mycro roots are chacing Nitrogens, and all plant metabolism is ment to deal and process with this nitrogens. It menas she is creating a tottal different plan from the one you have for her when you swift to 12/12 and force the flower.
Than she is in a big stress, she as to change all the metabolism, all the mycro root system and produce different enzyme process to deal with the flower process. And 12/12 means rush to the plant, because in nature they start flower when days are longer than that, but allready gettin shorter. This natural process also show us about plant information on light. So that in the wild they dont wait for 12/12 to flower, they get the information that days are getting shorter and so they start flower.
For years i´ve tried a large variety of methods indoor allways with 18 hours period, some times short sometimes longer, i tried it all in all methods and ways, and never get as better as with 12/12. So i start wonder why and came for my answers.
This is what i share with you today.
From 12/12 from seed, you tell your plants that they have to hurry, time is on, and so they will crack on and grow with vigor.
And so, they will not stress never more than this.
And so they will develop ALL THEYR SYSTEMS and METABOLISMS according and directed to flower process.
The mature process, wich is shown by the pre-flower stage can happen in from 2 to 3 weeks on fast indicas.
So apart from preparing in advance for flowering, the plants will also grow as much as they can to be ready for big buds, cause they know they dont have much time.
And believe me, they do make huge, potent, stinky, pugent, hard and powerfull buds. And you can do it all in 8 to 9 weeks if you use a 6 week flower plant.
And basicly all the rest is the art of soil, nutrients, space manage, and othe cares.
So there´s no chicken method production, although is the fastes method to grow, and is also the most natural posible, specially if you wanna go even more natural.
And i can tell you by experience, as more you imitate nature more good results you gonna get.
I share a bit more of what i use and leave you with this one.
So apart from all this 12/12, to treat a plant you must work on the soil, on the roots and on the flowers.
So lets go natural:
No synthetic products, just BIO, but for that we gonna need bacteria and enzyme to make this BIO FOOD AVAILABLE to the plant.
NEVER OVER FERTILIZE. I give a lot of clean watter to my plants along the process and i dont give what the fertelizer makers say on the bottles, i measure it with ppm reader. But cannabis dont need and dont like to much fert! watch out! over fert sympthoms are pretty much the same as lacks. I recom for non PPM users to keep it under the levels, so if any sign you can give a tinny bit more.
And the time to fert is before the bud is formed. there´s where they want and need bigger food supply.
I make sometimes 3 weeks flushing, or overwattering, since i dont use pots.
Yes, i dont use pots, i use a huge mega super pot. I recom 600 LITERS of soil per 600 or 400 watt lamp. That is a pot of 1m x 1m x 0,60m. I started on 16 plants for a 600w lamp, but now im down to 9 plants with better results. Beacuse they share the huge root space, they know where to launch the side branches in order to fullfill the space.
So against of some comments that the 12/12 system makes the plants to grow as one bud on the stick, i tell you thats not just about the light, but about the pot limits. My plants go really bushy and very multiple stemmy, with loads of bud sprouts, and to a size from 60 to 90 cm tall, with the side ones going on mad competitions for the top, creating the most naturall and effortless SOG i ever seen. All the spaces get fullfill by theyr own organization. And why is that? Beacause they share the root space, and its a huge space, where they can spred aside and apart from space and nutrient, again the plant information cames along.
By the light the plant receives information on time period but also on "neighbours" by reflection. So when you pot your plants, they can sense each other arround, but they cant find theyr roots on the pots. So the plants cannot bio chemically comunicate and interact.
While in the big pot, you get more like to nature, so they share space, root system comunication and interaction can take place, and so the plants apart from help each other on resources and data, they also seem to agree on the phenotype, wich was one of the most amaizing phenomenon on this "one pot" experience.
I was allready surfing on 12/12 but still using individual pots like everyone else, until i did some casual experience in a small scale and observerd this phenomenon and then reproduced it on the scale of my 600 and 400 lamp system.
The result as been verified, in pots, the phenotypes are tottaly distinct and recognizable in groups of 2 or 3. sometimes 4 different phenotypes of the same seed patch.
As in cluster or in "one pot" shared, the phenotype as allways showned an amaizing harmony and concordance. Better than clones.
So, if you want, an even, dense sea of green of pungent big bud in just 8 weeks, thats the way to go. If you do good but in long cycle, this is the way to go. If you do fast but never get to 450 gr or more on a 600 watt lamp, so you can improve your effort and investment.
So, yes, i reuse soil, cause i use bacteria and enzyme a lot, just like in nature. I don´t use any vegetation ferts.
Only 2 flower ferts. bio root stimulation, bacteria and enzyme.
Primary stage, from germination to first pair of real leaves, i give just watter, then i start bio root stimulation, and i invest more product money here than with the flower ones.
First stage (wich could be called the growth stage) i use a bio concentrated flower fert on NPK 2-3-5. very soft and not in all watterings. And i continue bio root stimulation. We stop this NPK 2-3-5 in the second stage or when we see that the plants have a strong dark healthy green leaves. Consider this one as you Nitrogen suplier. and if your plants trhive in dark green, you should not give more nitrates or reduce to 10% dosage.
Second stage, no more root stim and no more juicy dakr stinky flower fert. and now we introduce a much cleaner second flower bio fert, on a NPK 1-20-17.
We keep this one on top level according to plant needs, untill the bud is tottaly preformed. The rest of the time, for hardner the buds and for tricome maturitty we do the best flush or overwattering as posible. untill the end. Enzyme can also be given till the last 2 weeks.
Dont count on weeks by seed tables and shitty marketings, look to your plants, learn with them, understand them and then you will know what to do, as long as you understand WHY you do what you do.
So instead of doing something just like someone said or read in a book, go on your own experience. Don´t take for garant anything you read, not even this post. You please try your own and cofirm your datas. That´s the only way to start to having a clue on what the F*** are you doing. Cause buy some seeds and put them under a light any one can do it.
But if you love this plant as I do, you gotta understand her. And to understand the plant is to understand the Nature and vice versa.
So if you have any doubts on your 12/12 tryings, you can make your questions.
If you never tried it but you wanna argum with me, i dont have time for you. Sorry.
If you do it with regular seeds, there are some aspects to adapt but is tottaly dooable. I do my own breeds as well.
If you have comercial lines on legalized countries and wanna improve your yelds per year, we can talk about other aspects as time stacking and long term soil life cycle.
Well, my dutty on green revolution is done for a minute.
i wish you all good experiences, and above all, good conection with the plant and its benefits.
Peace
Oldseed.
I don´t know if you guys going to read this reply one year after but after reading your posts i had to sign up the forum just to answer you all.
So first of all, all im gonna say is based on my direct experience. And in summary the 12/12 from seed system is the best, the fastest, the most natural and most easy way to grow your crop on 1gr per watt with conossour quality.
I explain all of it.
So first, as one of you said that the 12/12 is the most far away posible from nature, i have to say that that is the most far away from true. Cause its the oposite.
So the 18 hour light period, it only happens in nature on the poles, so only ruderalis would take it naturally. For ALL the other species, 18 hour period is allready a bit stress to the plant, but she can handle it.
On against, in the TROPICS from where most of cannabis wild species thrive, the NATURAL LIGHT PERIOD is 12/12 the ALL YEAR. Can you get more natural and stressless to plants than 12/12 from seed as they get on the tropics?
I don´t think so. ANY change on light period will represent stress to the plant, cause our devices do not imitate nature perfectly.
Now, let´s talk about METABOLISM. and PLANT INFORMATION.
So the plant information is the DATA you give to the plants about their envoirement, such as light, soil space and nutrients, water, ph, temperature, etc. The most powerfull one is the light period.
So when you give your indica or sativa plants 18 hours of light a day, what are you telling to your plants? what are they thinking?
You are telling them that the days are huuuge so, she as all the time in the world to grow and develop biomass for latter flowering. And so she does her growth in a normal rythm, and most important of all, she develops ALL HER METABOLISM in to vegetation mode. That means, all mycro roots are chacing Nitrogens, and all plant metabolism is ment to deal and process with this nitrogens. It menas she is creating a tottal different plan from the one you have for her when you swift to 12/12 and force the flower.
Than she is in a big stress, she as to change all the metabolism, all the mycro root system and produce different enzyme process to deal with the flower process. And 12/12 means rush to the plant, because in nature they start flower when days are longer than that, but allready gettin shorter. This natural process also show us about plant information on light. So that in the wild they dont wait for 12/12 to flower, they get the information that days are getting shorter and so they start flower.
For years i´ve tried a large variety of methods indoor allways with 18 hours period, some times short sometimes longer, i tried it all in all methods and ways, and never get as better as with 12/12. So i start wonder why and came for my answers.
This is what i share with you today.
From 12/12 from seed, you tell your plants that they have to hurry, time is on, and so they will crack on and grow with vigor.
And so, they will not stress never more than this.
And so they will develop ALL THEYR SYSTEMS and METABOLISMS according and directed to flower process.
The mature process, wich is shown by the pre-flower stage can happen in from 2 to 3 weeks on fast indicas.
So apart from preparing in advance for flowering, the plants will also grow as much as they can to be ready for big buds, cause they know they dont have much time.
And believe me, they do make huge, potent, stinky, pugent, hard and powerfull buds. And you can do it all in 8 to 9 weeks if you use a 6 week flower plant.
And basicly all the rest is the art of soil, nutrients, space manage, and othe cares.
So there´s no chicken method production, although is the fastes method to grow, and is also the most natural posible, specially if you wanna go even more natural.
And i can tell you by experience, as more you imitate nature more good results you gonna get.
I share a bit more of what i use and leave you with this one.
So apart from all this 12/12, to treat a plant you must work on the soil, on the roots and on the flowers.
So lets go natural:
No synthetic products, just BIO, but for that we gonna need bacteria and enzyme to make this BIO FOOD AVAILABLE to the plant.
NEVER OVER FERTILIZE. I give a lot of clean watter to my plants along the process and i dont give what the fertelizer makers say on the bottles, i measure it with ppm reader. But cannabis dont need and dont like to much fert! watch out! over fert sympthoms are pretty much the same as lacks. I recom for non PPM users to keep it under the levels, so if any sign you can give a tinny bit more.
And the time to fert is before the bud is formed. there´s where they want and need bigger food supply.
I make sometimes 3 weeks flushing, or overwattering, since i dont use pots.
Yes, i dont use pots, i use a huge mega super pot. I recom 600 LITERS of soil per 600 or 400 watt lamp. That is a pot of 1m x 1m x 0,60m. I started on 16 plants for a 600w lamp, but now im down to 9 plants with better results. Beacuse they share the huge root space, they know where to launch the side branches in order to fullfill the space.
So against of some comments that the 12/12 system makes the plants to grow as one bud on the stick, i tell you thats not just about the light, but about the pot limits. My plants go really bushy and very multiple stemmy, with loads of bud sprouts, and to a size from 60 to 90 cm tall, with the side ones going on mad competitions for the top, creating the most naturall and effortless SOG i ever seen. All the spaces get fullfill by theyr own organization. And why is that? Beacause they share the root space, and its a huge space, where they can spred aside and apart from space and nutrient, again the plant information cames along.
By the light the plant receives information on time period but also on "neighbours" by reflection. So when you pot your plants, they can sense each other arround, but they cant find theyr roots on the pots. So the plants cannot bio chemically comunicate and interact.
While in the big pot, you get more like to nature, so they share space, root system comunication and interaction can take place, and so the plants apart from help each other on resources and data, they also seem to agree on the phenotype, wich was one of the most amaizing phenomenon on this "one pot" experience.
I was allready surfing on 12/12 but still using individual pots like everyone else, until i did some casual experience in a small scale and observerd this phenomenon and then reproduced it on the scale of my 600 and 400 lamp system.
The result as been verified, in pots, the phenotypes are tottaly distinct and recognizable in groups of 2 or 3. sometimes 4 different phenotypes of the same seed patch.
As in cluster or in "one pot" shared, the phenotype as allways showned an amaizing harmony and concordance. Better than clones.
So, if you want, an even, dense sea of green of pungent big bud in just 8 weeks, thats the way to go. If you do good but in long cycle, this is the way to go. If you do fast but never get to 450 gr or more on a 600 watt lamp, so you can improve your effort and investment.
So, yes, i reuse soil, cause i use bacteria and enzyme a lot, just like in nature. I don´t use any vegetation ferts.
Only 2 flower ferts. bio root stimulation, bacteria and enzyme.
Primary stage, from germination to first pair of real leaves, i give just watter, then i start bio root stimulation, and i invest more product money here than with the flower ones.
First stage (wich could be called the growth stage) i use a bio concentrated flower fert on NPK 2-3-5. very soft and not in all watterings. And i continue bio root stimulation. We stop this NPK 2-3-5 in the second stage or when we see that the plants have a strong dark healthy green leaves. Consider this one as you Nitrogen suplier. and if your plants trhive in dark green, you should not give more nitrates or reduce to 10% dosage.
Second stage, no more root stim and no more juicy dakr stinky flower fert. and now we introduce a much cleaner second flower bio fert, on a NPK 1-20-17.
We keep this one on top level according to plant needs, untill the bud is tottaly preformed. The rest of the time, for hardner the buds and for tricome maturitty we do the best flush or overwattering as posible. untill the end. Enzyme can also be given till the last 2 weeks.
Dont count on weeks by seed tables and shitty marketings, look to your plants, learn with them, understand them and then you will know what to do, as long as you understand WHY you do what you do.
So instead of doing something just like someone said or read in a book, go on your own experience. Don´t take for garant anything you read, not even this post. You please try your own and cofirm your datas. That´s the only way to start to having a clue on what the F*** are you doing. Cause buy some seeds and put them under a light any one can do it.
But if you love this plant as I do, you gotta understand her. And to understand the plant is to understand the Nature and vice versa.
So if you have any doubts on your 12/12 tryings, you can make your questions.
If you never tried it but you wanna argum with me, i dont have time for you. Sorry.
If you do it with regular seeds, there are some aspects to adapt but is tottaly dooable. I do my own breeds as well.
If you have comercial lines on legalized countries and wanna improve your yelds per year, we can talk about other aspects as time stacking and long term soil life cycle.
Well, my dutty on green revolution is done for a minute.
i wish you all good experiences, and above all, good conection with the plant and its benefits.
Peace
Oldseed.
Last edited:
geologic
Old Pharmer
Supporter
- 1,912
- 263
I know nothing about lights and indoor growing--
but I like that anyway...
but I like that anyway...
O
Oldseed
- 9
- 3
in my experience, all the varietys do good on 12/12 except the ruderalis. My favourite is still the SK#1 from Sensi, although ALL the other strains i tried on 12/12 did perfect. From strain to strain it might change the timings for certain feedings and light intensity. But not any problem on 12 from deep sativa to deep indica.
Actually, the first 12/12 system was recomended by Holland top growers many years ago to grow this sativa types with huge flowering periods, like 12 and 14 weeks, such as the very known Super Silver Haze.
I do a 50 day flower plant, plus the 2 to 3 weeks in the begining till pre-flower. Only autos can do that faster, but harder to make them big yelders. They will be a try of mine in the future, but for what i investigate and try a bit on my own till now, the most efective way for autos indoor, is 24h light till pre-flower, and then onwards 18h a day. No coppice, no transplant, no stress, straight in the planting space from day 1 till the end.
Good conections to you all
O
Oldseed
- 9
- 3
if you share some data of what you did, we might understand what went wrong with your 12/12 system.
O
Oldseed
- 9
- 3
they look very good. Diferent from my system, im down to 9 plants per 1sq meter, with side branches covering the space for Sea Of Green.
But it looks good to me. It seems 25 per lamp.
Congrats on your friend. Keep it going!
Low Fert! High Taste!
O
Oldseed
- 9
- 3
The 18 hour period of light is only found in the poles of the planet, once a year. So it is only natural to ruderalis and tottaly unrecognizable for sativas and indicas.
While the 12/12 is the CONSTANT light period in the very tropic of the planet, wich happens to be where this plant thrives in the wild with more intensity.
So what´s more natural? I leave you the retoric question.
Peace
Light Fert! High Taste!
O
Oldseed
- 9
- 3
did you repeat the experience to confirm results? There is so many posible reasons to create the plant reactions you describe.
I do feminized and regular seeds, include my own crossings, on 12/12 and never had that description you made. And i did in many variations within the 12/12.
Peace
geologic
Old Pharmer
Supporter
- 1,912
- 263
Some of these folks haven't been around in a while--
---------------------------------------
Nutts was last seen: Jul 12, 2013
Post by: dutchman , Apr 27, 2013
----------------------------------------
but @jkbeing and @caveman4.20 are...
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