120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

[ProdigyGrower]

Too high N in flower, especially late flower, will make my leafy cultivar leafy as shit.

I rock chow mix of course, 24% coco. I have run a 1:1.5, 1:1.6, and 1:2.5 N:K ratio.
I am talking about elemental ppms.
2.5 was best. More dense, more frosty, less leafy.
You would be looking at 1.56 N:K, so your buds would be more leafy.
I did not like sitting in a fucking chair trying to harvest and trim an 8k room while getting progressively sicker.
So I like the lower N to K ratio.
Less scissor swipes per bushel.
Time vs money.
Bag appeal.

Edit-Prodigygrower, if I was advising you professionally, I would advise you to copy one of the successful formulas listed here. Mine is a copy of JK's, slightly modified for chow as per his recommendations. Then there is the Yosemite Sam formula also listed. Then there is Cap's formula.
Cap's and my formulas list the grams of salts per liter or per gallon to get the ratios right.
$200, or maybe a little less, will get you the salts you need.
Copy a formula.
Tweak 1 thing at a time from there.
I say this in the interest of
Operation Prodigygrower's Pocket.

Awesome thanks bro i got a 150gm sample for free i planned to use this and in the latter weeks of bloom cut it down by 75% and use a product like moab and hammer head combo with my first grow back i'm planning to run pure coco in 4x4 smarty's in my 4x4 trays and i dnt really have the time to mix my own salts its something i really want to try but i'm trying to find a cheap lazyer way to get good results. How do you think that would work cutting it down my 75% and adding those products or could you recommend a good product i was also thinking of fox farms open sesami, beastie blooms and cha ching. I have had good results in the past and they have no N in them well then the cha ching dnt but the others i think have very little. I used to use abunch of advanced products with botanicare and other as i see needed but i'm not gonna waste money on that any more with the amazing results i have seen people get with these type of nutes.

 

[kushtrees]

El cerebro the micro element ratios in Peters STEM looks very close to JR peters MOST. I would say off hand they are pretty interchangeable

GanjaAL none of those NPKs will get you to dankworths profile. You want something in the 2-2-5 range or 2-2-6. That gets you very close to dankworths profile. No bottle nute will get you the exact element ratio. CNS17 is probably the closest. HG is also close with more N though and I'm sure you can get very close with a 3 part but it would take a lil work.

Prodigy that should work excellent in veg. You could use te sample for veg and something else for bloom if you want the ratio outlined here. You might be able to get close by cutting it and adding MOAB and HH but MOAB alone will throw things off too much P compared to K. The thread about that nute (the veg+bloom) looks like it works well and some strains like more N than others so if you determined to use it go for it IMO

 

[sdgrower]

Awesome thanks bro i got a 150gm sample for free i planned to use this and in the latter weeks of bloom cut it down by 75% and use a product like moab and hammer head combo with my first grow back i'm planning to run pure coco in 4x4 smarty's in my 4x4 trays and i dnt really have the time to mix my own salts its something i really want to try but i'm trying to find a cheap lazyer way to get good results. How do you think that would work cutting it down my 75% and adding those products or could you recommend a good product i was also thinking of fox farms open sesami, beastie blooms and cha ching. I have had good results in the past and they have no N in them well then the cha ching dnt but the others i think have very little. I used to use abunch of advanced products with botanicare and other as i see needed but i'm not gonna waste money on that any more with the amazing results i have seen people get with these type of nutes.

Prodigy, I am just finishing up a run of headband using veg+bloom. Following the posted rates I began to notice a leafier looking product around week 5. I reduced the strength to 3 grams per 5 gallons then in weeks 6 and 7 I reduced the veg+bloom and hit em with MOAB. Finishing up week 7 now with good nug development. 2 weeks to go. I am going back to jacks pro without looking back. For $100 with shipping to CA you get 25lbs of jacks pro and 25lbs of cal nit. Plus you use less jacks.
Use the free sample for clones in rockwool.
Can't wait to see the new set-up

 

[DowNwithDirT]

Someone was kind enough to point out in a pm to me last night that they used P primarily for root development. I had read that before, but had never really delved too deeply into that. Needless to say have not varied P levels and checked roots for response.
I like Cap's ideas about the constant drip and P levels, levels of all nutes for that matter. Why I like chow mix. You can give it a small irrigation, and watch it slowly drip drip drip out the bottom in an even, measured pace, halfass gravity fed nft. Coco/perlite does not do this nearly as well.
I have heard of soil's inability to hold on to any meaningful amount of P. I sincerely hope we can drastically reduce our P levels under what ppms many run.
Eventually we can hook the plant up to a galvanometer like the dude in Secret Life of Plants, and the plant can thereby control the nutrient doser with changes in leaf surface electrical conductivity.
The Russians already did this a long time ago with plants self-governing irrigation timing.

For sure, it wants way more Ca than P.

Those values look close to JK's proposed values. JK started off with 120-60-280-120-60 I think he said (for his recirc), then bumped P in wk 2(or 3) to further trigger flowering, and bumped P to 90 late flower, and K to 320 maybe(if I recall correctly) also in late flowering. And YS's Ca values being a little higher than his N values are something I would have been inclined to try.
Looks like YS and JK prefer similar nute ratios, I will be right in there with my values, copying theirs seems to work out well.
But if we could keep that all the same, and drastically drop P, and optimize micros, and put them on a relatively constant drip, or something that approximated that, then we could get the greatest health with the least input cost.
All these guys have the right ideas regarding Ca foliars.(and K silicate foliars too)
More weed, better weed, lower cost.

more Ca then N is what I was getting at in my thread. Ca is the limiting factor......and fwiw....Blumats consistently dripping and keeping the 100% coco straight moist, leads to an insanely swollen root mass that grows upon itself is search of the water its getting.

My P K levels are pretty low, but I do use silica as my ph up, and this allows for pk boost of any sort around wk 2,4,and 6

 

[deep buddy]

I'm BALLS DEEP in this thread. Almost done reading, will contribute soon

im already BALLS DEEP tho, keep eet goingk!

:)
great info on the boron DW.

 

[hogan400]

Dankworth, I had to do extra reading, Im still playing catch up and have a general understanding of whats goin down now. Good work homies! Ill be back after more catch up.

 

[El Cerebro]

Blumats

how big are the plants in flower? and do you run anything to keep them from clogging?

 

[El Cerebro]

Okay stem and most are indeed close, however most is a tad hotter on s, fe, mn. And (at least on the labels I just read) most has a little mg and stem does not, same elements otherwise.

An interesting side note (to me), the literature for these micromixes warns not to use over .001 molybdenum for livestock forage grass. I wonder if this includes us?

 

[ttystikk]

How does one specifically bump boron?

I had a screwy thought about using some of 20 Mule Team Borax in the laudromat!

 

[dankworth]

How does one specifically bump boron?

I had a screwy thought about using some of 20 Mule Team Borax in the laudromat!

Buy a bigass(50lb) bag of Solubor.
Grow enough weed to burn through it.

 

[ttystikk]

Solubor actually has the 20 mule team borax logo on it! A 2lb bag is $12.99, which is a bit more in my price range. Soooo... why not just go with borax? Same stuff; sodium borate- and I'm not gonna use enough for the sodium to become an issue!

 

[dankworth]

Solubor actually has the 20 mule team borax logo on it! A 2lb bag is $12.99, which is a bit more in my price range. Soooo... why not just go with borax? Same stuff; sodium borate- and I'm not gonna use enough for the sodium to become an issue!

I think you win, ttystikk. I didn't want to have to get 50 lbs anyways.;)

 

[dankworth]

How does one specifically bump boron?

I had a screwy thought about using some of 20 Mule Team Borax in the laudromat!

I agree, I think buying a laundromat and growing in the back of it would be a great way to use sodium borate in a laundromat.
Fuck yeah.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

I agree, I think buying a laundromat and growing in the back of it would be a great way to use sodium borate in a laundromat.
Fuck yeah.

not to mention a wonderful cover up for smell and noise!

 

[sdgrower]

Fwiw the Aptus line seems to really utilize the micro's specifically boron and molybdenum in their fasilitator. I'm going to bump up my MOST a little bit and see what happens.

 

[ttystikk]

Ahhhh yes, it's the greenest laudromat in town! ALL of our customers leave with a satified smile on their face...

I can see the tagline now; 'It all comes out in the wash...'

 

[Capulator]

Prodigy, I am just finishing up a run of headband using veg+bloom. Following the posted rates I began to notice a leafier looking product around week 5. I reduced the strength to 3 grams per 5 gallons then in weeks 6 and 7 I reduced the veg+bloom and hit em with MOAB. Finishing up week 7 now with good nug development. 2 weeks to go. I am going back to jacks pro without looking back. For $100 with shipping to CA you get 25lbs of jacks pro and 25lbs of cal nit. Plus you use less jacks.
Use the free sample for clones in rockwool.
Can't wait to see the new set-up

Whcih headband? If you are growing DNA genetics "headband 707" aka sour og or whatever they call it, I have found every pheno I tried to be on the leafy side come end of term. TOo much leaf. TOo much work. Id rather run Wifi, and just pick the fruit, dry it, and put it in a jar.

Ahhhh yes, it's the greenest laudromat in town! ALL of our customers leave with a satified smile on their face...

I can see the tagline now; 'It all comes out in the wash...'

Be careful with Boron, too much and you will have a toxicity that will be very hard to correct. 1 ppm is fine.

 

[Capulator]

Fwiw the Aptus line seems to really utilize the micro's specifically boron and molybdenum in their fasilitator. I'm going to bump up my MOST a little bit and see what happens.

0.2 most is perfect IMHO.

 

[Capulator]

http://www.cannastats.com/articles/download.htm

I highly suggest downloading the premixppm file (the first one), and getting familiar with using the excel spreadsheets to input guaranteed analysis and W/V, so you can see what the fuck you are putting in your res and follow along here in this thread.

 

[dankworth]

Someone was kind enough to point out a mistake of mine a second ago.
In the tutorial, I forgot to account for the K value in the MKP.
So K sulfate should be .394 g/l, or 1.49 g/gal. Not .574 g/l.
This will also drop S to 146.54 ppms.

Thanks kushtrees.
My bad, guys. I am blaming the weed on this one.