120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

outwest · May 20, 2012

caregiverken said:
this thread just beat up my brain:confused: ...I have no idea what the heck you guys are talking abouto_O

Me neither. Not sure I want to. ;)

outwest

El Cerebro · May 20, 2012

List of things we want to take apart with analytical chem equipment, hplc/hpgc/ms. Here are a few of mine if any chemists who are game: Banana Manna, MOAB, Mightywash (plus their 'afterwash'), H&G Drip-clean, Clearex.

Make not buy.

outwest · May 20, 2012

El Cerebro said:
List of things we want to take apart with analytical chem equipment, hplc/hpgc/ms. Here are a few of mine if any chemists who are game: Banana Manna, MOAB, Mightywash (plus their 'afterwash'), H&G Drip-clean, Clearex.

Make not buy.

I'd love to hear what people think about mighty wash and banana manna. I swear by both. Wonder what Dick Cheney thinks.

outwest

dankworth · May 20, 2012

El Cerebro said:
List of things we want to take apart with analytical chem equipment, hplc/hpgc/ms. Here are a few of mine if any chemists who are game: Banana Manna, MOAB, Mightywash (plus their 'afterwash'), H&G Drip-clean, Clearex.

Make not buy.

I think someone was showing how Clearex was some basic salt and some form of sugar, I can't remember any more than that. I probably should have bookmarked it.
Apparently certain sugars are able to grab onto salts and pull them out or something.
Or some shit.

dankworth · May 20, 2012

outwest said:
I'd love to hear what people think about mighty wash and banana manna. I swear by both. Wonder what Dick Cheney thinks.

outwest

I dig Banana Manna's effects.
I do not dig their prices lol.
Never used Mighty Wash, but I have repeatedly heard that it is very effective.
Have not seen mites in years, knock on wood.

deep buddy · May 20, 2012

dankworth said:
I think someone was showing how Clearex was some basic salt and some form of sugar, I can't remember any more than that. I probably should have bookmarked it.
Apparently certain sugars are able to grab onto salts and pull them out or something.
Or some shit.

clearex is just glucose ,sucrose, and mostly water. not sure on the salts.

El Cerebro said:
List of things we want to take apart with analytical chem equipment, hplc/hpgc/ms. Here are a few of mine if any chemists who are game: Banana Manna, MOAB, Mightywash (plus their 'afterwash'), H&G Drip-clean, Clearex.

Make not buy.

tha banana manna is on the board, i may do a sample of drip clean( ive never used it but i know there are alot of folks who swear by it). moab is on board. and good idea on the mighty wash elcerebro! i def want to know how that stuff works.

El Cerebro · May 20, 2012

Buddy you are the man, please tell your friend many thanks from us.

dankworth · May 20, 2012

Banana Manna may simply be IBA and NAA together in a certain amount.
Using Dip n grow produces a very similar set of terpenes when I use it, and the OR dept of Ag site shows how IBA and NAA are in b. manna.
Maybe some banana extract too, for smell.
But I think IBA/NAA is the ticket here.
Keep in mind I have observed fresh white roots, not a lot, but a little, when I have done root autopsies after using b. manna at the end.

Root behavior that is highly indicative of IBA/NAA.
Check out roots post-harvest after running b. manna weeks 6-8 or 7-8 of a 9 week cycle, you will see the same thing probably.

These are my suspicions anyways.

outwest · May 20, 2012

dankworth said:
Using Dip n grow produces a very similar set of terpenes when I use it, and the OR dept of Ag site shows how IBA and NAA are in b. manna.

Can you provide a little more insight/data on this point? If I can get the same effect with a 5 dollar bottle of bonide and some banana peels, I'm in. Maybe there IS something to the whole banana peel smoking thing. :eek:

outwest

dankworth · May 20, 2012

Check out Oregon dept of Ag site, you can get to the banana manna ingredients part somehow.

I am noticing pretty identical terpene sets in response to both b manna and dip n grow which has 1% iba 0.5% naa. I suspect the whole thing hinges on iba/naa.

Don't forget to do the root autopsy to confirm, also to estimate iba/naa dosage.

deep buddy · May 20, 2012

El Cerebro said:
Buddy you are the man, please tell your friend many thanks from us.

hey man i will def, let him know. he is already super excited, and when the time is right he will come out of the shadows. thank you for you regards.

dankworth said:
Check out Oregon dept of Ag site, you can get to the banana manna ingredients part somehow.

I am noticing pretty identical terpene sets in response to both b manna and dip n grow which has 1% iba 0.5% naa. I suspect the whole thing hinges on iba/naa.

Don't forget to do the root autopsy to confirm, also to estimate iba/naa dosage.

i really think that is is the type of sugar that separates banana manna and othe sugar/carb sources, jusyMHO.fwiw.

dankworth · May 20, 2012

Search Registered Products
As of: 2/20/2012
Product Name: Banana Manna
OMRI Listed: No WSDA Organic Program Listed: No
Product Status Brand Name Waste Derived Pesticide
Registered Tropical Organics No No
Registrant: AGRO AMERICA INC - BELLEVUE, WA (425) 454-5731
Heavy Metals (in Parts Per Million)
Arsenic: < 1.9 Cadmium: < 0.19 Mercury: < 0.1 Lead: < 0.97 Nickel: < 1.9
Non Plant Food Ingredients
Humic Acid Indole3 Butyric Acid Naphthaleneacetic Acid Phosphorous Acid

Kelp Vitamin B1 Polyacrylamide Potting Mix

Other Ingredients Banana Extract 0.01%

deep buddy · May 20, 2012

dankworth said:
Search Registered Products
As of: 2/20/2012
Product Name: Banana Manna
OMRI Listed: No WSDA Organic Program Listed: No
Product Status Brand Name Waste Derived Pesticide
Registered Tropical Organics No No
Registrant: AGRO AMERICA INC - BELLEVUE, WA (425) 454-5731
Heavy Metals (in Parts Per Million)
Arsenic: < 1.9 Cadmium: < 0.19 Mercury: < 0.1 Lead: < 0.97 Nickel: < 1.9
Non Plant Food Ingredients
Humic Acid Indole3 Butyric Acid Naphthaleneacetic Acid Phosphorous Acid

Kelp Vitamin B1 Polyacrylamide Potting Mix

Other Ingredients Banana Extract 0.01%

so basically just enough banana in it to call it banana?
you da man dank!

dankworth · May 20, 2012

deep buddy said:
so basically just enough banana in it to call it banana?
you da man dank!

I think so, probably like something from LorAnn oils or something like that(thanks Cap). That is my guess anyways.
.01% would be .0128 oz per gallon, or like 1/80th of an oz per gallon, or .384 ml per gallon.

Edit- Oregon dept of Ag makes our jobs easier lol.

deep buddy · May 20, 2012

again why im so glad to be able to have access to your knowledge.

outwest · May 20, 2012

dankworth said:
Check out Oregon dept of Ag site, you can get to the banana manna ingredients part somehow.

I am noticing pretty identical terpene sets in response to both b manna and dip n grow which has 1% iba 0.5% naa. I suspect the whole thing hinges on iba/naa.

Don't forget to do the root autopsy to confirm, also to estimate iba/naa dosage.

Thanks, DW.

outwest

Resinable · May 21, 2012

Great thread Dankworth.

I know you are using this formula with chow mix; do you treat chow mix as coco when considering your elemental ratios? The reason I ask is because JK's formula seems a bit high in K for coco.

YosemiteSam told me he is running this formula in coco:

"I run elemental N-P-K-Ca-Mg at 100-75-75-110-40 and add a little more Ca as an amendment. I do that through stretch and then, based on what I see, give occasional bumps of mpk. I use CaNO3, ammonium phosphate (to control media pH vs the alkalinity of my water), epsom salt, mpk, a micro package called STEM, a little iron dpta and a little Zn edta.

Taste and plant health (brix) improve a bunch and you see a lot more fall colors other than yellow at the end. Yield does not increase cause you aren't jamming nitrates down the plants throat"

Also his Ca and Mg ratios are quite different; not saying one is right or wrong just thought the differences were interesting since both formulas authors are thoughtful peeps.

ttystikk · May 21, 2012

I must confess to being a bit thick in regards to this thread; after looking back and forth at every post- I see the ratios, but I am completely lost on how much of each component of a six-pack recipe to add into, say, 100 gallons of water. Is there a way to do this by grams, as I'm doing with Jacks now?

dankworth · May 22, 2012

Grams/gallon is listed in post #9 of this thread.

MKP .265 1.002 g/gal
CalNit .632 2.389 g/gal
KNit .169 0.6388 g/gal
KSulf .574 2.170 g/gal
Epsom .612 2.313 g/gal
Iron .100 0.378 g/gal

I have run N:K ratios of 1:1.5, 1:1.6, 1:2.5, I liked 1:2.5 best, see JK's comments about this.
That Yosemite Sam guy, from my limited understanding, is a real "big kid", and most likely has way more knowledge and insights than I do.
Is he working with 100% coco with those values?

ttystikk · May 22, 2012

dankworth said:
Grams/gallon is listed in post #9 of this thread.

MKP .265 1.002 g/gal
CalNit .632 2.389 g/gal
KNit .169 0.6388 g/gal
KSulf .574 2.170 g/gal
Epsom .612 2.313 g/gal
Iron .100 0.378 g/gal

I have run N:K ratios of 1:1.5, 1:1.6, 1:2.5, I liked 1:2.5 best, see JK's comments about this.
That Yosemite Sam guy, from my limited understanding, is a real "big kid", and most likely has way more knowledge and insights than I do.
Is he working with 100% coco with those values?

Somewhere, I am missing something; so to take a concrete example; MKP is 1.002g/gallon... for what? What are the units for the ".265"? Not sure how this relates to the desired ratios, or to overall desired ppm.

120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

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120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

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