120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

[Capulator]

Dankworth,


Don't know if I agree that bigger plants need different ratios, my experience has not shown that. Yosemite grows decent sized plants with his formula over a p per plant I think.



Wonder about this tho; about how cutting coco with perlite or hydroton changes nute requirements. Seems like maybe not since perlite and hydroton are fairly inert?



Ttystick,
I'm using Jack's and Cal nit and love it even though I managed to muddle it up in my haste this first run. I started off running a ratio of 2:3:1 . . . Jacks/Calnit/Epsom and my plants looked super healthy so it took me second to realize my mistake. Most run a 3:2:1 or 3:2:.5 or just 3:2 ratio. A 1:1 might be okay for veg and early flower but 3:2 is better for bloom for sure and maybe veg too. I started out using Epsom salts but will try dropping them based on YosemiteSam saying that Jacks already has near the upper limit for Mag.

Funny thing was my plants looked super healthy with 2:3:1 but by week 5 I realized my bud size was not what it should be and my plants were producing a tremendous amount of healthy leaf. So I switched it up to 3:2:1 at half strength and added MOAB at 1 gram per gallon and things have responded.

I am in about 60% perlite 40% coco and have been running my ppms (500 scale) at about 800 to 1200 prior to week five and about 650 with MOAB.

Yosemite was using Jacks with no boosters in coco but switched to salts to get a more coco specific formula. He told me that his yield did not go up with the switch but his quality did. He also foliars with calcium 25.

I might stop using Epsoms as Yosemite pointed out that Jacks already has the upper limits of Mag.

Jacks and calnit is super user friendly. Plants love it.

Wonder if anybody on the Farm has ever used Magnon grow or bloom from AmericanHydro? A and B two part dry nuts. Interesting looking stuff. They are from Humboldt and have been around for a while but don't sell exclusively to the cannabis market. They carry some interesting products. There Companion product is the shit if you want b.subtilis.

the 2-3-1 is the veg formula for jacks for sure. That's about what I was running until a couple weeks in to flip. Then switch to 3-2-1.

Those notes on YS formula are from quite a few months back. It is very possible he changed things since then. I have not looked at ICMAG in a while.

 

[Capulator]

In RDWC, my preferred ratios with Jacks were:
3g/gal Jacks
3g/gal CalNi (veg)
2g/gal CalNi (bloom)
2g/gal Epsom, since the molecule has so much hydrate in it, you have to use a lot to get much sulfur.

If someone sees something wrong with these ratios, by all means say so- don't go by the ppm, I dilute to the strength needed for the plants' needs.

I'm not sure what too much magnesium looks like, but my girls were healthy- at least unitl the crazy pH swings set in. Capulator mentioned that he quit using silica due to pH issues, and I think I had the same problem- and then I think I got a bug of some kind that dragged my pH down, and hard. In the tug-of-war, my plants basically just gave up a week or two early.

Get a 2 gallon pail of k2so4, and MKP. I will show you how to combine that with jacks to get a good formula. Then when your jacks is out you can get the potassium nitrate adn magnesium nitrate, MAP, iron, etc..

 

[ttystikk]

Resinable, I fed at 2000 ppms/4 ec, and I clearly need to bump it to 2200 already. So let's say the coco contributes a total of 50 ppms K, that would be enough ppms to balance out K ratio at lower ppms. But at my ppms, there would be a deficit.
I use 1/4 coco chow, didn't think I would have to run such high ppms.
My plant is a freak eater, and getting lit up pretty well, high humidity right now, halfway optimized, so my ppms are up there.
I am betting if the bucket were filled with all coco, I would have to run lower ppms.
Fuckin love my new hater buckets.

Hater buckets? Do tell...

 

[dankworth]

Ttystikk. You listening?
http://t3.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQza0HOpSeW6eOPnbGJPu4ta1DRDssYUwVEl2THrUTivAd80kQL9A


Good. You know how they want you to choose between
Reliability
http://t1.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUOKVPC_pE4NX4VeGu6qKGgEO25Yx_NJGi56jgR_1ux9LHqDf7

and performance?
http://t0.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQd5lkyZjQBcJXfZoYo0RBNOfroqkjyED77GlB43rYNOy9xCBS1qw

What if you could have both
at the same time?
http://t3.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEj0mFB6akDA9pfruGlXIzq7mlXOXQbBMn7X4uEOhliKUri2M6

Like that.

 

[dankworth]

Question exactly what natural elements does cannabis need to reach its peak. Does it use all 90?

Been topdressing with Azomite just in case.

 

[dankworth]

Search Registered Products
As of: 2/20/2012
Product Name: Banana Manna
OMRI Listed: No WSDA Organic Program Listed: No
Product Status Brand Name Waste Derived Pesticide
Registered Tropical Organics No No
Registrant: AGRO AMERICA INC - BELLEVUE, WA (425) 454-5731
Heavy Metals (in Parts Per Million)
Arsenic: < 1.9 Cadmium: < 0.19 Mercury: < 0.1 Lead: < 0.97 Nickel: < 1.9
Non Plant Food Ingredients
Humic Acid Indole3 Butyric Acid Naphthaleneacetic Acid Phosphorous Acid

Kelp Vitamin B1 Polyacrylamide Potting Mix

Other Ingredients Banana Extract 0.01%

Upon further review, I see how some products are showing the whole
humic acid/indole3 butyric acid/naa/etc etc
thing.
So I may be entirely wrong about the presence of IBA/NAA.
The different terpenes immediately released after the application of Dip N Grow are irrefutable however.
The unusual-looking new root growth at the end of flush upon root autopsy cannot be ignored either.

Could it be simply .01% banana extract? At $40 a gal?
Will I eat crow?
Can Lassie save Timmy in time?
Stay tuned.

 

[dankworth]

(Yosemite Sam's values)

CaNO3
KNO3
MKP
MgSO4
Metolasate amino complexed K
a micro mix

exact mix depends on where the plants are in their life cycle

peak mix is, in ppms

125-90-300-150-50 N-P-K-Ca-Mg

avg might be 100-50-200-100-50

(edit-this corresponds closely w/JK's values I have been copying)

 

[dankworth]

Banana Extract Bitches!
http://t2.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcROKreMRE7BKjbyZAqnAwdF9-deZNoY8WyhMI1sTB1y6HoC0TxJ-Q
I think I need to get high now.

 

[Resinable]

Resinable, I fed at 2000 ppms/4 ec, and I clearly need to bump it to 2200 already. So let's say the coco contributes a total of 50 ppms K, that would be enough ppms to balance out K ratio at lower ppms. But at my ppms, there would be a deficit.
I use 1/4 coco chow, didn't think I would have to run such high ppms.
My plant is a freak eater, and getting lit up pretty well, high humidity right now, halfway optimized, so my ppms are up there.
I am betting if the bucket were filled with all coco, I would have to run lower ppms.
Fuckin love my new hater buckets.​

Ahh Dankworthsan your reasoning becomes clear this morning as the fog burns off the hillside revealing the Chinese forest from my view on the pagoda.

Between you and Northone, who I think feeds at like a total of 25 ppm, there is something to be learned.

I like to focus in on points where intelligent people disagree, that is where things get interesting and a lesson is to be learned. at least that is what they taught me growing up at Shaolin Temple.

 

[dankworth]

Ahh Dankworthsan your reasoning becomes clear this morning as the fog burns off the hillside revealing the Chinese forest from my view on the pagoda.

Between you and Northone, who I think feeds at like a total of 25 ppm, there is something to be learned.

I like to focus in on points where intelligent people disagree, that is where things get interesting and a lesson is to be learned. at least that is what they taught me growing up at Shaolin Temple.

I am still trying to figure out how the hell he runs such low ppms effectively.
He was running a recirc bucket gig w/topfeed into chow, 5 mins on, 15 mins off if I remember correctly, like 40/60 chow I think.
My nutrient delivery technique I think is contributing to the need to run such high ppms.
Still trying to make sense of it all.
Light values at differing points within the canopy are part of this I think.
His pics showed vert 1ks, I am using 1ks overhead, maybe some relevance there.

Wasn't DD talking about his G(also freak eater) at one point using 1300 ppms, and he accidentally ran it at 1950 or so for a bit, thought it would be fried, but it worked out well as long as he only ran it for 1 day a week?
And Krusty bumped ppms by 50% once a week on day 6 of that week, then flushed for a day on day 7, and got more weight that way, didn't he?
Bueller?

I really do need to go get high right now.

 

[Dirty White Boy]

Leibergs law of minimum

 

[Dirty White Boy]

That's what's up now all you wanna be big boys study up......lesson over.....

 

[Capulator]

That's what's up now all you wanna be big boys study up......lesson over.....

Wannabe big boys?

 

[dankworth]

That's what's up now all you wanna be big boys study up......lesson over.....

I saw a version of this pic in a grow book in the 90s.

 

[Capulator]

Ooh ooh... here's another one:

"Mulders chart"

Schools back in session.

 

[Dirty White Boy]

Then let the info flow

 

[Dirty White Boy]

Cap I love you.....I mean know disrespect.....but yes leibergs law of min. Prove me wrong.....

 

[dankworth]

Ooh ooh... here's another one:

"Mulders chart"

Schools back in session.

You mean "Mulder's chart"
http://t2.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLWiKpnbr9lGOH2mdxANTM8a6vCmc_EcRgcpAZVx1rKr7MXpTm
Or "Mulder's chart"?
http://t1.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgwzZe66EyBbvxjbmcg-iUPmU1rrzIadMmqoJCWT2mIiRz4PK7
Fucking with you Cap. I know you mean the second one.
My next girlfriend will have that tattooed on her ass.
Oh yes. She will.

 

[Dirty White Boy]

I'll say this though how pure are the minerals making up this mix......cause if p is an issue calculate the chlorine released from all the salts....it might already be detrimental.......

 

[Dirty White Boy]

Jk wasn't god ya know......