1st Grow Ever Looking For Pointers

[Gettnpacksin]

Hey guys, nice forum here. I will be starting my first grow here shortly. I purchased a 4x4 gorilla grow tent for the UV protection and durability. Will be doing a soil grow using fox farms ocean forest soil with a 30% perlite mix in it from the get go. (I will be using 5gallon buckets). I have a hood and dimmable ballast (400w,600x,&1000w) that a buddy of mine gave me about a year ago, but I'm not sure if I want to use the hps lighting or order a couple of mars hydro 300w or 600w led?? (Any thought on that)?? just received my first batch of seeds, ( think I went a little over board with the order) I received 5 FASTBUDS girl scout cookie feminized, 5 FASTBUDS gorilla glue feminized, and 1 violet pure haze can't remember the seed bank but that was feminized also that I ordered. Along with this I received 8 free seeds 4 from FASTBUDS feminized strains and 4 other feminized seeds. total of 19 feminized seeds just waiting, I still need to order a carbon filter fans and few other things for the tent before it's ready. By the way I will be running 4 plants at a time for now till I can get manging them down. Now that we have a basic breakdown of everything. Time for some questions.
Are fox farm nutrients good to use?
Should I go hps or with the mars led?
Any information and help is greatly appreciated and valued thanks guys

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

COB led, galaxyhydro has affordable ones
http://www.ledlightplant.com

 

[OldPine]

Hi Gettnpacksin. I'm new here too...just joined yesterday.

How are you planning on growing your plants? Small bushes? SCROG? Something else? The reason I ask is because my biggest mistake on my first grow was sprouting too many babies. I was thinking I'd have a high failure rate at germination. When all of my seeds sprouted, I didn't have the heart to cull any (throw any out). Ended up way too crowded.

4x4 can be a fine tent size for 4 plants, depending on how your plan to grow. It can be a total clusterf*ck if you chose the wrong method.

Also, which 4 seeds do you plan on running first? If you plan to SCROG, you'll want to make sure they are similar in stature. Your Gorilla Glue, especially depending on which generation it is, can grow pretty tall. Same with your Haze. Your GSC should stay relatively short compared to the others since it's Indica dominant.

I might suggest less is more. With the right training methods, you can expect similar returns from 2 well trained plants as you might get from 4 that could crowd one another out.

I don't really have an opinion on the light. I've used everything under the sun...including the sun. I've even used T5s for flower just as an experiment. Obviously, that wouldn't be my first choice, but I think you'll get great results with either of your choices.

One thing to consider is heat - how much is this a concern of yours? The LEDs should put out considerably less heat.

 

[Seamaiden]

Welcome to the farm! That's all I have to say right now. :D

 

[Juddz2891]

Hey guys, nice forum here. I will be starting my first grow here shortly. I purchased a 4x4 gorilla grow tent for the UV protection and durability. Will be doing a soil grow using fox farms ocean forest soil with a 30% perlite mix in it from the get go. (I will be using 5gallon buckets). I have a hood and dimmable ballast (400w,600x,&1000w) that a buddy of mine gave me about a year ago, but I'm not sure if I want to use the hps lighting or order a couple of mars hydro 300w or 600w led?? (Any thought on that)?? just received my first batch of seeds, ( think I went a little over board with the order) I received 5 FASTBUDS girl scout cookie feminized, 5 FASTBUDS gorilla glue feminized, and 1 violet pure haze can't remember the seed bank but that was feminized also that I ordered. Along with this I received 8 free seeds 4 from FASTBUDS feminized strains and 4 other feminized seeds. total of 19 feminized seeds just waiting, I still need to order a carbon filter fans and few other things for the tent before it's ready. By the way I will be running 4 plants at a time for now till I can get manging them down. Now that we have a basic breakdown of everything. Time for some questions.
Are fox farm nutrients good to use?
Should I go hps or with the mars led?
Any information and help is greatly appreciated and valued thanks guys

Welcome I'm still a newbie but I love the fox farms stuff nutes included but my setup is somewhat similar but but I have a 250 w that I use for the seedlings and then I switch to my 600w hps it's by sunspot I have guerrilla glue pinapple kush and lemon skunk goin in ffof cut with perlite and I don't have any problems with the nutes jus start in small doses like half the dosage I go by the ff soil feeding schedule but it's up to you on what yu wana use and for the first couple weeks you really don't need nutes if u use ffof and its on the hot side by the way but like I say I love it and my girls do

 

[Gettnpacksin]

COB led, galaxyhydro has affordable ones
http://www.ledlightplant.com

Thanks for the info and quick response

 

[Gettnpacksin]

Hi Gettnpacksin. I'm new here too...just joined yesterday.

How are you planning on growing your plants? Small bushes? SCROG? Something else? The reason I ask is because my biggest mistake on my first grow was sprouting too many babies. I was thinking I'd have a high failure rate at germination. When all of my seeds sprouted, I didn't have the heart to cull any (throw any out). Ended up way too crowded.

4x4 can be a fine tent size for 4 plants, depending on how your plan to grow. It can be a total clusterf*ck if you chose the wrong method.

Also, which 4 seeds do you plan on running first? If you plan to SCROG, you'll want to make sure they are similar in stature. Your Gorilla Glue, especially depending on which generation it is, can grow pretty tall. Same with your Haze. Your GSC should stay relatively short compared to the others since it's Indica dominant.

I might suggest less is more. With the right training methods, you can expect similar returns from 2 well trained plants as you might get from 4 that could crowd one another out.

I don't really have an opinion on the light. I've used everything under the sun...including the sun. I've even used T5s for flower just as an experiment. Obviously, that wouldn't be my first choice, but I think you'll get great results with either of your choices.

One thing to consider is heat - how much is this a concern of yours? The LEDs should put out considerably less heat.

I'm planning on the scrog method and that's where I'm stuck 2 or 4 seeds to start. Temperature I'm not to worried about I live in upstate NY it's a pretty cool climate and I think if I go hps it will help moderate the winter months bc it averages around 0°f.

 

[Gettnpacksin]

Welcome I'm still a newbie but I love the fox farms stuff nutes included but my setup is somewhat similar but but I have a 250 w that I use for the seedlings and then I switch to my 600w hps it's by sunspot I have guerrilla glue pinapple kush and lemon skunk goin in ffof cut with perlite and I don't have any problems with the nutes jus start in small doses like half the dosage I go by the ff soil feeding schedule but it's up to you on what yu wana use and for the first couple weeks you really don't need nutes if u use ffof and its on the hot side by the way but like I say I love it and my girls do

By saying the soil is hot what does that generally mean and is it something that should and can be adjusted. Again sorry for all the questions I have guys just trying to get as much knowledge as I can. Before I germ these girls

 

[Gettnpacksin]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies. I will definitely be running fox farms ocean forest and the nutrients they offer. Is 400w to much for the veg stage? Even though my ballast is adjustable to 1000w I will only run it at 600w for flowering.

 

[OldPine]

I'm planning on the scrog method and that's where I'm stuck 2 or 4 seeds to start.

Personally, I would go for 2 in a 4x4 scrog. But this also depends on how versed you are and how comfortable you are with different high stress (e.g. topping/FIMming, etc.) and low stress (e.g. bending) techniques. It's completely possible to fully fill a 4x4 scrog with 2 plants. If you're unsure, maybe split the difference and germinate 3? If you chose to do that...even if you have one seed fail to sprout, you'd still be left with 2. And if all three do sprout, you could still be IMO more comfortable in a 4x4 space with 3 rather than 4 when scrogging. I don't think there's a "wrong" answer here, necessarily. I just remember the mayhem of having too much plant for too little space. It just makes our jobs that much more difficult. For example, you'll have to stay on top of the foliage growth as overcrowding (which can lead to e.g. powdery mildew and places for plant matter to die and attract pests) is a constant battle.

Let us know what you decide!

OldPine

 

[OldPine]

By saying the soil is hot what does that generally mean and is it something that should and can be adjusted.

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes @Juddz2891 in answering this question...and please correct me if I've misunderstood your post in any way.

@Gettnpacksin - what Juddz was referencing when he mentioned "hot" is that the Fox Farms Ocean Forest is well saturated with nutrients...to the point where he would classify it as "hot" or potentially too nutrient rich for young plants, especially if you start a nutrient feeding schedule immediately. His advice was to beware the nutrient schedule provided by FF as they tend to over prescribe their nutrients. This is true of most, if not all, nutrient companies. They want you to use as much of their product as possible. Therefore, their suggested nutrient levels are usually way too high. This can be a simple as a waste of product (and $) but could also do damage to your plants, especially when they're young. I do want to note that I have never used Fox Farms Ocean Forest, so I can't speak to this from personal experience. I'm simply expanding on what I believe Juddz was referring to.

I typically would not add nutrients for the first 10-14 days, especially when using FF or similar which already contains nutrients. When I do start adding nutrients, I start very slowly...usually around 15-20% of what the nutrient company suggests. I will then slowly raise my nutrients during subsequent feedings. For example, I might go for no nutrients until day 10 or 14, then start at 15-20% recommended levels for the first feeding. I would then keep that level for another 5-7 days until deciding to increase to 20-25%. Continue this pattern while paying attention to your plants. They'll tell you if they need more or if you overdid it.

By gradually increasing nutrient levels, you will better avoid you soil becoming to "hot" (too nutrient saturated) for your plants. You'll also be able to see where your plants are most happy. For example, if they are thriving at 40%, you probably don't want or need to increase from there.

Last thing I'll throw out there is that I typically never end up higher than 50% of what the nutrient company calls for. Every now and again, there will be a strain that wants more. But typically I stop at or around 50%. And if you want to enter another entire world of debate, start looking into what you'll be doing at or near the end of your flowering cycle in regards to nutrients. Personally, I gradually decrease my nutrient levels during feeding starting about three or two weeks out from harvest.

There's a post on here called Flushing is a Bad Practice Based on Flawed Science (https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...-on-flawed-science.64789/page-24#post-1797944). In fact, I just read this thread in it's entirety the other day. You'll see that there are people who have very good reasons for their preferred methods on both sides of the fence.

Sorry to go on-and-on with my responses this morning. I noted your comment regarding wanting to absorb as much info as possible. I hope I haven't just muddied the waters for you.

OldPine

 

[OldPine]

Welcome to the farm! That's all I have to say right now. :D

Thank you Seamaiden!

 

[OldPine]

Thank you Seamaiden!

Oops, I just realized you were welcoming the OP not me! Excuse me while I blush in the corner...

 

[OldPine]

I'm planning on the scrog method and that's where I'm stuck 2 or 4 seeds to start. Temperature I'm not to worried about I live in upstate NY it's a pretty cool climate and I think if I go hps it will help moderate the winter months bc it averages around 0°f.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this point before and forgot...

Just to play devil's advocate...

I like the way you're thinking regarding using your light source to mitigate against the cold winter months. But how hot does it get during summer? I took the same strategy as you on my first setup. I too live in a climate where the winters are cold. So my light choice was great during the winter. When summer came around, I had a heat problem. In my situation, it would have been much easier to add heat in the winter via a small space heater than it was for me to remove heat during the summer. The space I chose for my setup did not have air conditioning. So I had a choice to either install a portable AC unit which needed to be vented to the outside or install a water chiller for my DWC setup. Both were expensive options. I ultimately went with the water chiller and it turned out great. But I have to admit it wasn't fun having to do any of this in a total rush as the summer days continued to intensify. I do believe I got my chiller installed mere hours (maybe a day?) before I would have encountered root rot from hot reservoir temperatures. Now, you're not in DWC, so this is less of a concern for you...probably. But if you're anything like me, you'll get the bug to try different growing methods and ideally you'll make choices regarding your equipment that can be flexible enough to use in different setups.

I'm rambling again...

The only reason I bring this up is because had I chosen LEDs, I likely wouldn't have needed to worry as much during the summer. In fact, my other LED setups don't share the same problems with heat at all.

Just food for thought.

OldPine

 

[Gettnpacksin]

Personally, I would go for 2 in a 4x4 scrog. But this also depends on how versed you are and how comfortable you are with different high stress (e.g. topping/FIMming, etc.) and low stress (e.g. bending) techniques. It's completely possible to fully fill a 4x4 scrog with 2 plants. If you're unsure, maybe split the difference and germinate 3? If you chose to do that...even if you have one seed fail to sprout, you'd still be left with 2. And if all three do sprout, you could still be IMO more comfortable in a 4x4 space with 3 rather than 4 when scrogging. I don't think there's a "wrong" answer here, necessarily. I just remember the mayhem of having too much plant for too little space. It just makes our jobs that much more difficult. For example, you'll have to stay on top of the foliage growth as overcrowding (which can lead to e.g. powdery mildew and places for plant matter to die and attract pests) is a constant battle.

Let us know what you decide!

OldPine

Im going to run 2 with the scrog method. As for high stress I'm not to sure I heard stressing autofems wasn't a good idea? but yet again everyone has their own opinion. Low stress bending I feel I'm pretty capable of doing. I will be doing further reading on the techniques as I'm unfamiliar with how they are actually performed. I will attempt lollipopping them to control the foliage. placing a fan slightly above the plants blowing down and across with a fan and the bottom pushing the air around creating like a whirlwind if u understand what I mean. I believe this way I will have ent of air movement also across all plant structures . Thanks for the reply

 

[Gettnpacksin]

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes @Juddz2891 in answering this question...and please correct me if I've misunderstood your post in any way.

@Gettnpacksin - what Juddz was referencing when he mentioned "hot" is that the Fox Farms Ocean Forest is well saturated with nutrients...to the point where he would classify it as "hot" or potentially too nutrient rich for young plants, especially if you start a nutrient feeding schedule immediately. His advice was to beware the nutrient schedule provided by FF as they tend to over prescribe their nutrients. This is true of most, if not all, nutrient companies. They want you to use as much of their product as possible. Therefore, their suggested nutrient levels are usually way too high. This can be a simple as a waste of product (and $) but could also do damage to your plants, especially when they're young. I do want to note that I have never used Fox Farms Ocean Forest, so I can't speak to this from personal experience. I'm simply expanding on what I believe Juddz was referring to.

I typically would not add nutrients for the first 10-14 days, especially when using FF or similar which already contains nutrients. When I do start adding nutrients, I start very slowly...usually around 15-20% of what the nutrient company suggests. I will then slowly raise my nutrients during subsequent feedings. For example, I might go for no nutrients until day 10 or 14, then start at 15-20% recommended levels for the first feeding. I would then keep that level for another 5-7 days until deciding to increase to 20-25%. Continue this pattern while paying attention to your plants. They'll tell you if they need more or if you overdid it.

By gradually increasing nutrient levels, you will better avoid you soil becoming to "hot" (too nutrient saturated) for your plants. You'll also be able to see where your plants are most happy. For example, if they are thriving at 40%, you probably don't want or need to increase from there.

Last thing I'll throw out there is that I typically never end up higher than 50% of what the nutrient company calls for. Every now and again, there will be a strain that wants more. But typically I stop at or around 50%. And if you want to enter another entire world of debate, start looking into what you'll be doing at or near the end of your flowering cycle in regards to nutrients. Personally, I gradually decrease my nutrient levels during feeding starting about three or two weeks out from harvest.

There's a post on here called Flushing is a Bad Practice Based on Flawed Science (https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...-on-flawed-science.64789/page-24#post-1797944). In fact, I just read this thread in it's entirety the other day. You'll see that there are people who have very good reasons for their preferred methods on both sides of the fence.

Sorry to go on-and-on with my responses this morning. I noted your comment regarding wanting to absorb as much info as possible. I hope I haven't just muddied the waters for you.

OldPine

Absolutely enjoying all the feedback. Thank you and everyone else. As for nutrients I wasn't planning on running any until flowering stage. As I mentioned before I'm going to run ffof soil with about 30% perlite added in and that's it also il be starting the seeds in 5gallon planters instead of transplanting them before flower. I also hear with feminized seeds its better to start them that way because of the amount of stress it puts on the autos.

 

[Gettnpacksin]

Sorry, I meant to reply to this point before and forgot...

Just to play devil's advocate...

I like the way you're thinking regarding using your light source to mitigate against the cold winter months. But how hot does it get during summer? I took the same strategy as you on my first setup. I too live in a climate where the winters are cold. So my light choice was great during the winter. When summer came around, I had a heat problem. In my situation, it would have been much easier to add heat in the winter via a small space heater than it was for me to remove heat during the summer. The space I chose for my setup did not have air conditioning. So I had a choice to either install a portable AC unit which needed to be vented to the outside or install a water chiller for my DWC setup. Both were expensive options. I ultimately went with the water chiller and it turned out great. But I have to admit it wasn't fun having to do any of this in a total rush as the summer days continued to intensify. I do believe I got my chiller installed mere hours (maybe a day?) before I would have encountered root rot from hot reservoir temperatures. Now, you're not in DWC, so this is less of a concern for you...probably. But if you're anything like me, you'll get the bug to try different growing methods and ideally you'll make choices regarding your equipment that can be flexible enough to use in different setups.

I'm rambling again...

The only reason I bring this up is because had I chosen LEDs, I likely wouldn't have needed to worry as much during the summer. In fact, my other LED setups don't share the same problems with heat at all.

Just food for thought.

OldPine

The summers are usually moderate some days high 80s maybe 90 buy average around mid to high 70s. As for this past summer it was a scorcher as it was everywhere, so if beat becomes a problem I have a portable air conditioner that I can throw into my fresh air draw to cool it down. Or I will purchase led to run as for they run alot cooler than hps ..

 

[Gettnpacksin]

I just dug out my hps grow light and I was completely wrong it is dimmable but it's 200w 400w and 600w so what should I veg at 200 or 400? And anything special I should use to wipe down the light reflector and ballast? Or would just a light bleach and water mix be ok?

 

[OldPine]

Im going to run 2 with the scrog method. As for high stress I'm not to sure I heard stressing autofems wasn't a good idea? but yet again everyone has their own opinion. Low stress bending I feel I'm pretty capable of doing. I will be doing further reading on the techniques as I'm unfamiliar with how they are actually performed. I will attempt lollipopping them to control the foliage. placing a fan slightly above the plants blowing down and across with a fan and the bottom pushing the air around creating like a whirlwind if u understand what I mean. I believe this way I will have ent of air movement also across all plant structures . Thanks for the reply

I think your decision to run two is spot on!

Any plant can handle an element of stress. Your feminine autos should be no exception. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have related to the high stress techniques. Once you take a read, please feel free to reach out.

I think you're plan to ensure adequate cross ventilation is perfect.

OldPine

 

[OldPine]

Absolutely enjoying all the feedback. Thank you and everyone else. As for nutrients I wasn't planning on running any until flowering stage. As I mentioned before I'm going to run ffof soil with about 30% perlite added in and that's it also il be starting the seeds in 5gallon planters instead of transplanting them before flower. I also hear with feminized seeds its better to start them that way because of the amount of stress it puts on the autos.

I think you're certainly headed in the right direction regarding your nutrient regimine. One thing you'll hear frequently is "less is more" when it comes to nutrients. I remember hearing this constantly but not fully understanding the gravity of the statement until I made my own mistakes.

It's true that autos can sometimes be finicky when it comes to stress...but then there are a trove of strains that share this characteristic regardless of whether they have some ruderalis lineage or not. The opposite is also true...some strains are incredibly resilient and wouldn't care if they were transplanted daily (practically).

Either way, I think you'll be fine with 5 gals from the start. You'll just need to keep an eye on your development of root structure.