A Decision Needs To Be Made..

[crimsonecho]

Not the university of Michigan. Yet. We just voted rec so they can soon enough.

The u of m is like Cornell with all the agriculture studies.

Yeah i’m stumbling upon many studies from University of Michigan. Hope they get to working soon :)

 

[crimsonecho]

I would say they will eventually stop making bulbs but the music industry still makes vacuum tubes for amplifiers like they had in the old days.

Guitarists like the tube amps so the industry keeps making them. Digital modeling amps for all the benefits have not taken over in decades of improvements.

People love retro stuff.

But besides that like you said hps is just cheaper and probably always be a little cheaper. As of now leds can really kick all the hid lightings ass (even cmh at the same wattage) and the better light distribution and less heat output is just cream on top.

Logically they should have disappeared by now but i don’t see them going away any time soon because its just cheaper.

But it’ll eventually become obsolete.

 

[MIMedGrower]

People love retro stuff.

But besides that like you said hps is just cheaper and probably always be a little cheaper. As of now leds can really kick all the hid lightings ass (even cmh at the same wattage) and the better light distribution and less heat output is just cream on top.

Logically they should have disappeared by now but i don’t see them going away any time soon because its just cheaper.

But it’ll eventually become obsolete.

Looking at the parts and ease of manufacturing led should be much cheaper than hid.

 

[crimsonecho]

Looking at the parts and ease of manufacturing led should be much cheaper than hid.

Well i havent done much research on the subject of manufacturing so i dont want to speculate but leds are always gonna be overpriced.

They are efficient and sturdy. Companies are not going to sell you a diode you will use for 10 years if they are not getting at least 5 times the worth. Just capitalism in action :D

 

[Jimster]

Well i havent done much research on the subject of manufacturing so i dont want to speculate but leds are always gonna be overpriced.

They are efficient and sturdy. Companies are not going to sell you a diode you will use for 10 years if they are not getting at least 5 times the worth. Just capitalism in action :D

You have obviously become much more familiar with the newer technologies, and I wasn't trying to argue with you other than a good ol physics question. The differences between the different manufacturers is brutal at times. The newer cob lights I was looking at are all-in-one units...two solder connectors for 85-220 VAC input and you get an instant 50 watt light for les than $4...although the quality is unknown. No drivers or power limits to worry aout…but not as much flexibility either. Anytime you are generating that kind of power at those small packages, there is gonna be a lot of heat...noting like a HID light though. Its just localized and if wicked away, no problems. I don't think the newer ones are multi-powered, although some are but maybe not yet avail in certain colors and frequencies.

 

[crimsonecho]

You have obviously become much more familiar with the newer technologies, and I wasn't trying to argue with you other than a good ol physics question. The differences between the different manufacturers is brutal at times. The newer cob lights I was looking at are all-in-one units...two solder connectors for 85-220 VAC input and you get an instant 50 watt light for les than $4...although the quality is unknown. No drivers or power limits to worry aout…but not as much flexibility either. Anytime you are generating that kind of power at those small packages, there is gonna be a lot of heat...noting like a HID light though. Its just localized and if wicked away, no problems. I don't think the newer ones are multi-powered, although some are but maybe not yet avail in certain colors and frequencies.

Well i burned a chip because i was just trying to see if it was working without mounting on an heatsink. It was my first time with a cob. It took only 5 seconds and a very little current. In actuality the leds put out ton of heat too. Its just easier to dissipate. The lower you drive them the better it gets.

There is a balance, i was recenly reading that 3 picowatt leds are the most efficient. You would not be able to see it. So there come the balance, using the most efficient that provides sufficent light. In this sense i think going with 10-25w leds and distributing total output along your canopy is a better strategy at the end.

Pros;

-They will run more efficient, less heat output and more light. Also longer lifespan.

-No dark spots, the thing we love about qbs (among many other things).

-Easier to cool, smaller heatsinks that doesn’t clutter your space.

-The distance can be as close as 4 inches, i measured mine and at that height it puts out 80K lux which shouldn’t cause any problems (some of my prior buds was getting 90+ and no burns). Even at that height still good distrubution because of the multiple light sources.

Cons;

-Need more cobs and drivers and heatsinks, so basically the only con is the investment.

Besides all these calculations and stuff, i got the nug i posted from a led floodlight board, so no special spectrum or high efficiency and shitty cri probably because no name diodes.

So basically, those 220v (110v for ‘mericans) cobs would work at a great extend at growing plants. Would they be efficient as a good cree, osram, bridgelux or even citizien? Who knows (probably not). But they will get the job done and if you’re only supplementing with them, they should work well.

 

[Jimster]

Well i burned a chip because i was just trying to see if it was working without mounting on an heatsink.

So basically, those 220v (110v for ‘mericans) cobs would work at a great extend at growing plants. Would they be efficient as a good cree, osram, bridgelux or even citizien? Who knows. But they will get the job done and if you’re supplementing with them, they should work well.

I'm interested in getting something going, but I'm going crazy waiting for the parts to arrive. I found a couple of big heat sinks and some heat sink compound, power supplies from 60-220, and some wire, so I should be ready to make a couple of prototypes to see how long they will run an how much they will help. The discreet color cobs were only available in 220V, but I see they now take standard 110VAC as well. I'm still fascinated by how much light you can get out of that little 1.25X1.25 spot!

 

[crimsonecho]

I'm interested in getting something going, but I'm going crazy waiting for the parts to arrive. I found a couple of big heat sinks and some heat sink compound, power supplies from 60-220, and some wire, so I should be ready to make a couple of prototypes to see how long they will run an how much they will help. The discreet color cobs were only available in 220V, but I see they now take standard 110VAC as well. I'm still fascinated by how much light you can get out of that little 1.25X1.25 spot!

I’m still on the fence about dedicated color chips. Mostly because uv is dangerous for humans and the equipment around. If you’re still going to use them you should somehow direct all the light at the plants but standard reflectors wont work with uv. They will disintegrate over time too.

I’m sure they will run for a long time if cooled properly. Those big cob heatsinks with pin-like fins (don’t know the proper names) would do a good job with higher wattages.

Good thermal compound is important too. These leds are amazing, if there is a pin size surface that doesn’t make complete contact with the heatsink, that tiny tiny part gets very warm, very quickly.

But yeah, to quote myself “man, i love leds” :)

 

[SmithsJunk]

I’m still on the fence about dedicated color chips. Mostly because uv is dangerous for humans and the equipment around. If you’re still going to use them you should somehow direct all the light at the plants but standard reflectors wont work with uv. They will disintegrate over time too.

I’m sure they will run for a long time if cooled properly. Those big cob heatsinks with pin-like fins (don’t know the proper names) would do a good job with higher wattages.

Good thermal compound is important too. These leds are amazing, if there is a pin size surface that doesn’t make complete contact with the heatsink, that tiny tiny part gets very warm, very quickly.

But yeah, to quote myself “man, i love leds” :)

I haven't read through the thread but saw your Original Post and wondered if you considered Cree for their solderless modular swapability and the 3500k color range. I ask partly because I want to build my own eventually and I haven't cracked open my prebuilts yet to see how easily they swap and partly because I'm just curious.

Also, haven't used it on COBs but Arctic Silver has given me excellent thermal transference on both GPUs and CPUs that run extremely hot. They use silver in the compound but have made it molecularly stable so it's non-reactive. Silver's conductivity is amazing and my gear runs real cool.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Well i burned a chip because i was just trying to see if it was working without mounting on an heatsink. It was my first time with a cob. It took only 5 seconds and a very little current. In actuality the leds put out ton of heat too. Its just easier to dissipate. The lower you drive them the better it gets.

There is a balance, i was recenly reading that 3 picowatt leds are the most efficient. You would not be able to see it. So there come the balance, using the most efficient that provides sufficent light. In this sense i think going with 10-25w leds and distributing total output along your canopy is a better strategy at the end.

Pros;

-They will run more efficient, less heat output and more light. Also longer lifespan.

-No dark spots, the thing we love about qbs (among many other things).

-Easier to cool, smaller heatsinks that doesn’t clutter your space.

-The distance can be as close as 4 inches, i measured mine and at that height it puts out 80K lux which shouldn’t cause any problems (some of my prior buds was getting 90+ and no burns). Even at that height still good distrubution because of the multiple light sources.

Cons;

-Need more cobs and drivers and heatsinks, so basically the only con is the investment.

Besides all these calculations and stuff, i got the nug i posted from a led floodlight board, so no special spectrum or high efficiency and shitty cri probably because no name diodes.

So basically, those 220v (110v for ‘mericans) cobs would work at a great extend at growing plants. Would they be efficient as a good cree, osram, bridgelux or even citizien? Who knows (probably not). But they will get the job done and if you’re only supplementing with them, they should work well.

I think this is a great idea too and I'm not the only one. ShenZhen has put out fixtures with this design, only their using Lumens 9x 30w (90w equivalent to HID or HPS, whatever they're comparing them to now). It's almost exactly the wattage I am running but more spread out. I really really want this fixture. They're selling it for under $300 (why I haven't built my own yet).

 

[crimsonecho]

I haven't read through the thread but saw your Original Post and wondered if you considered Cree for their solderless modular swapability and the 3500k color range. I ask partly because I want to build my own eventually and I haven't cracked open my prebuilts yet to see how easily they swap and partly because I'm just curious.

Also, haven't used it on COBs but Arctic Silver has given me excellent thermal transference on both GPUs and CPUs that run extremely hot. They use silver in the compound but have made it molecularly stable so it's non-reactive. Silver's conductivity is amazing and my gear runs real cool.

Well i went with crees because they were easily available to me and have a very good spectrum.

Using no solder holders makes it incredibly easy to put together.

What do you have in a prebuilt fashion i dont know but you can take them apart pretty easily and swap with a cob that fits. :)

I used arctic silver ceramique in this build just because its cheaper and gets the job done.

 

[crimsonecho]

I think this is a great idea too and I'm not the only one. ShenZhen has put out fixtures with this design, only their using Lumens 9x 30w (90w equivalent to HID or HPS, whatever they're comparing them to now). It's almost exactly the wattage I am running but more spread out. I really really want this fixture. They're selling it for under $300 (why I haven't built my own yet).
View attachment 843729 View attachment 843730 View attachment 843731

I’ve seen those lights. Yeah it should do very well but still they are 46cm to 45cm.

The fixture i built coveres actually 100 to 60 (this number is flexible) so even better light distribution.

Using this kinda build gives me several advantages. Most importantly, if i dont need to fill the tent, i can bring them closer or hang the ones on the outside at an angle to create a light dome and so on..

 

[SmithsJunk]

Well i went with crees because they were easily available to me and have a very good spectrum.

Using no solder holders make it incredibly easy to put together.

What do you have in a prebuilt fashion i dont know but you can take them apart pretty easily and swap with a cob that fits. :)

I used arctic silver ceramique in this build just because its cheaper and gets the job done.

CXB3590 x1 & x2 by ShenZhen

I’ve seen those lights. Yeah it should do very well but still they are 46cm to 45cm.

The fixture i built coveres actually 100 to 60 (this number is flexible) so even better light distribution.

That's cool. IMO, an even better design.

 

[crimsonecho]

CXB3590 x1 & x2 by ShenZhen
View attachment 843732



That's cool. IMO, an even better design.

Nice setup. Yeah you can change to a different Kelvin cob as long as they are the same. Voltage and everything.

They should be pretty easy to pull apart but if they work let them :)

Chinese do the gods work.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Nice setup. Yeah you can change to a different Kelvin cob as long as they are the same. Voltage and everything.

They should be pretty easy to pull apart but if they work let them :)

Chinese do the gods work.

They definitely do. I'm I glad asked you. Now does the swap have to be a CXB or are the CXA compatible too.

They've also got this sweet CXB3590 x6 50w kit for custom builds with independent heat sinks but it's running over $300. Probably because of the independent sinks.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Nice setup. Yeah you can change to a different Kelvin cob as long as they are the same. Voltage and everything.

They should be pretty easy to pull apart but if they work let them :)

Chinese do the gods work.

I don't want to destroy it. Just see how it ticks. Maybe swap out for flower lights.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Was thinking about ordering multiple units with my custom name and providing alternate COBs with them. For the locals, not online sales. Well, maybe online sales if it's an option cause $$$ is $$$. I don't like hiking up prices just for having a custom name like the pricks on Amazon do.

Oh, and that kit I mentioned earlier, I think those are 100w run at 50w. If you add another driver you can make it two sets of 300w I'm pretty sure.

 

[crimsonecho]

They definitely do. I'm I glad asked you. Now does the swap have to be a CXB or are the CXA compatible too.

They've also got this sweet CXB3590 x6 50w kit for custom builds with independent heat sinks but it's running over $300. Probably because of the independent sinks.
View attachment 843739

Don’t really now how they connected it. But most likely there is a holder of some sorts under the reflector and cxa and cxb has the same dimensions so it shouldn’t be a problem.

Yeah probably. It is better in the sense that it provides a better distribution and if you get a some aluminium frames or something you can make some sort of bar shape which would be better, less clutter.

Was thinking about ordering multiple units with my custom name and providing alternate COBs with them. For the locals, not online sales. Well, maybe online sales if it's an option cause $$$ is $$$. I don't like hiking up prices just for having a custom name like the pricks on Amazon do.

Oh, and that kit I mentioned earlier, I think those are 100w run at 50w. If you add another driver you can make it two sets of 300w I'm pretty sure.

Definitely the cheaper option but its still good. Now that unit claims passive cooling if i remember correctly. In that case i’m a little torn. 50watts per chip is still a lot and would put out much heat. I’m not sure it can be cooled very efficiently with convection.

By the way i think its running at 30watts per chip so it may work with just convection but i wouldn’t add drivers to it.

The thing is if you add 2 drivers in the same circuit one will always provide tiny bit more electricity even if they are identical which would lead to many problems. Not a techinician but the smallest problem you could run into is that the driver which provides less voltage will burn out very quickly. Its not advisable to run 2 drivers on the same circuit.

Also if you’re thinking i can create 2 independent circuits and provide higher current to each chip then you you will need to add fans too because it’ll get very hot and the burning of the chip is a very real possibility.

Edit; ah i see you were talking about the kit with independent heatsinks. You can add another driver and run them in 2 series of 3 but still the heatsinks need to get bigger as wattage increases or you need to add individual fans. Tho that raises its own problems mainly clutter again and the posibility of a fan malfunctioning and quiting on you. But it would work.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Don’t really now how they connected it. But most likely there is a holder of some sorts under the reflector and cxa and cxb has the same dimensions so it shouldn’t be a problem.

Yeah probably. It is better in the sense that it provides a better distribution and if you get a some aluminium frames or something you can make some sort of bar shape which would be better, less clutter.



Definitely the cheaper option but its still good. Now that unit claims passive cooling if i remember correctly. In that case i’m a little torn. 50watts per chip is still a lot and would put out much heat. I’m not sure it can be cooled very efficiently with convection.

By the way i think its running at 30watts per chip so it may work with just convection but i wouldn’t add drivers to it.

The thing is if you add 2 drivers in the same circuit one will always provide tiny bit more electricity even if they are identical which would lead to many problems. Not a techinician but the smallest problem you could run into is that the driver which provides less voltage will burn out very quickly. Its not advisable to run 2 drivers on the same circuit.

Also if you’re thinking i can create 2 independent circuits and provide higher current to each chip then you you will need to add fans too because it’ll get very hot and the burning of the chip is a very real possibility.

Edit; ah i see you were talking about the kit with independent heatsinks. You can add another driver and run them in 2 series of 3 but still the heatsinks need to get bigger as wattage increases or you need to add individual fans. Tho that raises its own problems mainly clutter again and the posibility of a fan malfunctioning and quiting on you. But it would work.

Yeah, I was thinking you'd get two fixtures like the ones I'm running but forgot about the active cooling. You could probably get away with a single big 200mm PWM static pressure fan to draw the heat off of them. Those actually look like decent sise heat sinks. With the build quality of ShenZhen's products they might have overcompensated for safety but at the same time they do love efficiency so they might be dead on spec. Probably better not to risk it though. I don't know enough yet about COBs to know exactly how much heat sink surface area would be required. Been a long time since I've had to do any electronics calculations. All my training is still bangin around in my head somewhere I just need to read through a book or two and it'll come back. I don't know where I've got my little electronics dictionary stashed or if I gave it away.

I was playing with the idea of liquid cooling.

 

[Jimster]

I'm planning on designing a new grow system, based on these newer cob designs. I know my biggest problem is excess heat. Modular design is also needed. The market is young and the development on LEDs is phenomenal. I worked as a electronics tech for years, so I'm very familiar with the nuts/bolts. Its just crazy how the newer cobs developed. Within 2 weeks they went from DC only to integrated 85-240 VAC input power and available in 15 or more discreet colors...as well as a very generous full spectrum that fill all the "holes" in most spectrums. Cree are considered premium, but they are being challenged every day.