A few questions for only the seasoned growers

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THegrowshow

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I have been growing for years now and with all these new products I wonder what if there are at all any added benefits so here are the questions?
1. I was recently told that hygrozyme and cannazyme, even though both are enzyme that clean your growing medium in fact do different things and should be used together. Does anybody know the specific enzyme in each product and what it does specifically. Also being that plants take in synthetic nutes and organic nutes differently do the enzymes have an equal effect on each mode of nutrient delivery for the plant.
2. This leads me to my second question which is does it stress the plant to combine organic and inorganic nutrient delivery modes to the plant (I know fox farm does this but I've always wondered what you guys think.
3. What are the different types of kelp. I just became aware that you can have a specific leopard's for veg one for flowering and one thay can be used for both. I am aware of the red and green and different leopard's that appear at different depths. I am also aware of nitrozime which is a much more concentrated type of kelp versus some of the other types that arent extracts. But in my efforts to really dial it I. I want to know the differences between a kelp product for veg and o.e for flowering.


Thank you farmer in advance
 
G

GrOwRooMGURU

17
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I have been growing for years now and with all these new products I wonder what if there are at all any added benefits so here are the questions?
1. I was recently told that hygrozyme and cannazyme, even though both are enzyme that clean your growing medium in fact do different things and should be used together. Does anybody know the specific enzyme in each product and what it does specifically. Also being that plants take in synthetic nutes and organic nutes differently do the enzymes have an equal effect on each mode of nutrient delivery for the plant.
2. This leads me to my second question which is does it stress the plant to combine organic and inorganic nutrient delivery modes to the plant (I know fox farm does this but I've always wondered what you guys think.
3. What are the different types of kelp. I just became aware that you can have a specific leopard's for veg one for flowering and one thay can be used for both. I am aware of the red and green and different leopard's that appear at different depths. I am also aware of nitrozime which is a much more concentrated type of kelp versus some of the other types that arent extracts. But in my efforts to really dial it I. I want to know the differences between a kelp product for veg and o.e for flowering.


Thank you farmer in advance
yes hygrozyme and cannazym are two different products with two different funtions hygrozme cleans containers so its more suited for hydro while cannazym breaks down dead root material and i'd like for you to help me when you find the answer to the second and third question.
 
S

sfzoo

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1. Specific enzyme won't be easy to find. When speaking to the Canna rep he said that Hygrozyme is the only enzyme product that will work with Cannazyme. He says Cannazyme is different because 'it does things to the roots'. Seriously, this is what he said. I asked what kind of things and he couldn't tell me. He just kept sayin it breaks down organic matter and does things to the roots. Fuckin snake oil salesman. Not saying Cannazyme doesn't work, cause it does, just hate people expecting me to believe what they say w/o any facts.
FWIW, i then talked to the Research Director at Hydrodynamics and asked what his opinion is of enzyme products and their non-cannabis counterparts in fish stores and such...he said, they're probably not too different. He didnt' do any studies on any particular enzyme so he could be sure. But from his experience, most should be about the same.

2. I used Canna's coco line for 2 full cycles. fully synthetic. However, i've used organic/natural supplements w/o issues.

3. I just picked up nitrozyme and will be testing it shortly. You should do a quick search and find the email to Harley Smith, the research director at hydrodynamics. He's willing to answer questions and knows quite a bit about kelp and its various forms.
 
S

Sea Of Green

Guest
1. I use Hygrozyme in soil. There are many benefits to using it in soil or hydroponics. What it is, and what it does are described in these excerpts from the Hygrozyme website:
Hygrozyme is a highly refined enzymatic cleaner/facilitator for dead matter. Keeping in mind that it is sterile and inert, Hygrozyme cannot kill anything.

Its key role therefore is to act as a prophylactic, a sort of protector of your plant's foliage and root systems as it works, naturally, to create an environment that is not conducive to the deadly pathogens that threaten a variety of crops.

Many leaf borne diseases like Black Spot or Powdery Mildew flourish in the presence of dead matter. Contamination often occurs when gardening tools aren't properly sterilized, humans inadvertantly spread the macro organisms or insects enter the growth medium and bring the pathogens along with them. If they arrive and conditions are hospitable - for example dead matter has accumulated - these diseases can quickly take hold and kill plants quickly and efficiently.

The regular use of Hygrozyme is a natural and organic way to encourage the break-down and removal of dead matter. Additionally, plants are more easily able to absorb the important nutrients that foster faster growth with stronger root systems, improved foliage and bigger yields. At the same time Hygrozyme fosters the presence of beneficial micro organisms on leaf surfaces and in the grow medium or hydroponic solution. This is especially successful when used in combination with compost extracts that contain micro protagonists.

For best results Hygrozyme should be used right from the start; begin with a sterile, perfectly clean system and count on Hygrozyme to maintain a healthy grow environment even in unseasonably cool or moist conditions.

The function of Hygrozyme in a pure hydroponic system is that of a refined, organic, natural cleaner and facilitator.

Hygrozyme, which has Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) approval and an unlimited shelf-life, has a dual purpose. First, it aids in breaking down and converting dead organic material quickly and efficiently. Second, it improves the ability of the roots to absorb the valuable nutrients released from the expedited natural breakdown of dead matter.

Why is this important?

A closed hydroponic system the build-up of dead organic material can encourage the development of diseases or pathogens. Often this sort of build-up happens in difficult to reach and clean places such as pipes and pumps, where there are little pockets and spaces that are nearly impossible for anyone to keep sterile. Prevention is the best way to protect your plants by not giving pests and diseases hospitable conditions.

Even a short period of time is enough for a hydroponic system to become contaminated. Quick intervention is essential to protect the roots of your plants.

Why Hygrozyme?

Enzyme formulas are considered the gold standard for sterilization in the medical industry for surgical instruments and other medical supplies. If Hygrozyme is used as directed from the start, in a clean system, it will prevent the build-up of debris and the vulnerability to disease and pathogens. It is very effective in keeping systems clean.

Hygrozyme is the only known solution on the market that can be used in conjunction with hydrogen peroxide in a ppm of 1-2% solution, a combination used by many operators to clean, sterilize and oxygenate roots.

It is important to note that Hygrozyme is a natural plant enzyme. It does not kill anything. To be effective, it is best used before bio film build up grabs hold in your system, causing complications and producing an environment ideal for problems such as Pythium. While some growers have reported Hygrozyme has arrested root rot, it has to be caught early and treated with vigilance.

Prevention, even for plants, is the best medicine and the prescription of choice is Hygrozyme.

Compensate the dead roots and dead protein matter

The condition of the plants is an important factor in preventing diseases. Fast growing plants are able to withstand or overcome an infection. For example, infected plants suffer root death. But if the plant grows fast enough, it can compensate the dead roots by quickly forming new roots. A healthy plant can outgrow an infection, and the grower won't even notice that a pathogen is active. In contrast, if plants grow slower than the fungus progresses, the plant will be killed.

Also, plants growing in stressful conditions are weaker and more susceptible to diseases. For instance, some fungi cannot penetrate a healthy root, but they can enter old roots and wounds. As an example we look at the fungus Pythium. Pythium is known for attacking plants that are weakened by poor growing conditions or that have damaged roots. For instance plants that are just transplanted often have damaged roots, and are therefore very vulnerable to root diseases. Plant diseases can be minimized by avoiding stress on plants.

* Independent tests have shown the use of HYGROZYME with all watering procedures or in conjunction with fertilizers, accelerates the breakdown of dead matter present on media and within the growing system. This dramatically reduces the potential sites for anaerobic activity. It further fosters the release of complex nutrients and inhibits the development of competitors such as disease or algae. Such an environment has been shown to reduce plant stress and encourage rapid growth and balance within the system.

Plants in cold wet places are first to be infected. Typical winter conditions consisting of low light, low temperatures and high humidity reduce the transpiration and water uptake of plants. This increases the chance of over-watering and water logging. Plants in cold wet places are the first to be affected by Pythium root rot. (Pythium fungus has many species, some thrive at low temperatures). Pythium root rot can be reduced by improving the growing conditions. Avoid excessive watering in dull periods, and ensure adequate drainage. Polystyrene placed under the bags or plastic gullies keep the temperature up. It also supports the bags or gullies, thus avoiding low places where water logging can occur. The most effective method of avoiding cold-stress is by heating during winter, especially heating the root-zone.

Stress from heat

Temperatures that are too high are very stressful for plants and can make them an easy target for diseases. Water that comes back from black plastic irrigation lines can be extremely hot due to sunshine, and can cause direct damage to the roots. The so-called 'tropical Pythium' species thrive in high temperatures. The combination of high temperatures, stressed and damaged plants and the presence of tropical Pythium is a recipe for root rot. In this case the root rot problem can be avoided by keeping the root-zone at a moderate temperature, for instance by keeping the gullies and irrigation lines shaded.

* Oxygenation or the implementation of aeration procedures discourages anaerobic activity. Enzymes can be used to ward off potential attacks on plants in warmer environments, but this type of exposure is not conducive to a balanced growing environment. A balanced system can be the answer to many ills. As such, Enzymes can play a vital roll in maintaining that balance.

Taking advantage of weakness

Plants that suffer from any insect, fungus, virus or nematode grow slower than normal. Soil-borne fungi like Pythium take advantage of the weakness of the plants. Quite often Pythium is found on the roots together with another root disease. It is likely that the other root disease conquered the plant first, and that Pythium entered the plant afterwards. Plants can also be weakened by the chemical situation in the root-zone, for instance the presence of agrichemicals (pesticides), oxidants (sterilizing agents), high salinity (high CF), high acidity (low pH) and low oxygen content. Moreover, the chemical condition changes the biological environment and may kill the beneficial microbes. The remedy of course is to remove or reduce the stress factor.

A balanced growing medium is what should be established wherever possible. Enzymes will aid by increasing a plant's tolerance to adverse conditions. Their presence will help in reestablishing balance and aid in restoring the natural protection plants inherently gain through health.

2. I don't believe that it stresses the plant in any way to feed with organic and synthetic nutrients combined. Not in my experience anyway. I've been using some combination of organic and synthetic nutrients or another for my plants for many many years now. Come to think of it, I've actually never grown cannabis fed strictly organic or synthetic, always both. All I know is IT WORKS! Best of both worlds maybe? And speaking of FoxFarm, that Tiger Bloom(organic-based) is some of the best stuff I've ever used in soil too. As a matter of fact I'd still be using it currently if it wasn't so fucking expensive.

3. Kelp for veg or flowering? Yeah, I don't know for sure on that. I know there's powderized, or extract. And they can vary slightly on their NPK levels. I have a bottle of GrowMore seaweed extract that I use a little of here and there. Just for general plant health. That and I use Liquid Karma regularly, which is derived from kelp too(among other things).
 
motherlode

motherlode

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I get better results overall when I combine organic/natural sources with synthetics then just using either on their own

I dont feel like hygrozyme is a necessary thing to grow when your plants are happy/healthy - I have seen benefit to using it on sad little clones or plants that are over watered

but ts a waste of cash to use on an everyday basis and can really help gunk up a res quick if your running recirc

pressed kelp is what ya want - nitrozyme is the shit though for foliar - I wasted time messing around with cheap kelp products - nitrozyme is even better then the econutrients kelp
 
sedate

sedate

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motherlode said:
I dont feel like hygrozyme is a necessary thing to grow when your plants are happy/healthy - I have seen benefit to using it on sad little clones or plants that are over watered

but ts a waste of cash to use on an everyday basis and can really help gunk up a res quick if your running recirc

Yea really +1 on that.

I'm the "hygrozyme is fucking garbage" camp myself.

Hygrozyme always turns roots this sickly orange color and the whole rez gets this disgusting bio-sludge everywhere. Fuck that shit. I've nearly lost crops to the hygrozyme sludge.

Beneficial bacteria and a carbohydrate program for me - keep that DWC clean and shiny for 'effin weeks.
 
The Joker

The Joker

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Hygrozyme at the recommended dose of 10ml per gallon will make your weed flavorless and bland. Try 2 ml. or only every few weeks. I stopped using it after two flavorless runs.
 
S

Sea Of Green

Guest
Interesting. I did not know that, nor have I experienced it. But since I only use it at half again that strength, or ~1 ml., it's no wonder why now. Good to know, thanks!
 
symbiote420

symbiote420

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I use Hygrozyme at 5ml per gallon with dry nutes mixed in my soil once at the beginning of veg then at the start of flower, in soil with all my microbuddies at work I figure you just don't need it that much. I'll finish the bottle but I don't see any significant difference in my yields, or my rootballs when I dump my soil out to keep buying some expensive shit like that.

I love Nitrozyme as a foliar feed throughout veg (for sativas) till about wk 2 flower(for indicas) THE BEST SEAWEED PRODUCT ON THE MARKET!! that's just my opinion though, the only seaweed I've seen grow plants better is the shit I get off the beach for my outdoor plants only.

I've got the same responses from almost every nute company I've every contacted, as long as they can confirm the product is organic I'll give it a shot and won't get as upset bout not getting all my questions answered.

@ motherlode I've decided to do that very thing! This run I've just started is getting a couple plants tested with organic based synthetic products, e.g. Green Planet Massive, Cash Crop ROOTZ and Sumo PK 13/14.
 
Surfr

Surfr

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Hygrozyme at the recommended dose of 10ml per gallon will make your weed flavorless and bland. Try 2 ml. or only every few weeks. I stopped using it after two flavorless runs.

I have used it religiously for years and can tell you that it has absolutely no affect on taste what so ever.. I have even done runs with whole trays right next to each other.. One with Hygro and one without.. def a cleaner root system in the end but no difference in taste or smell.

:character0180:
 
T

THegrowshow

51
8
Ok I have been a drain to waste guy for years so hygrozyme has did me just fine, but in another post I read on undercurrent Dave who is a rep (or maybe the owner) for current culture hydroponics wasn't really for hygrozyme in hydroponic systems. But one thing we as farmers need to do is be more specific to help the newbies. I am 100% for hygrozyme in drain to waste as far as recirculating system I would lean towards no with the previous feedback and Dave's so so recommendation of hygrozyme for undercurrent(although for other recirculating systems it may be fine).

I also have been researching pond cleaners and wastewater treatment products and found some cool faqs that can help us farmers further understand how bacteria and enzymes relate to one another. The really cool thing about these questions also is that they also compare bacterial products vs. straight enzyme products. But the questions are as follows:

8. How quickly do high enzyme producing bacterias produce enzymes.. and in what quantities?
Production of enzymes begins as soon as the bacteria begin to grow. The cells must obtain nutrients from their surroundings, so they secrete enzymes to degrade the available food. The quantities of enzymes produced vary depending on the bacterial species and the culture conditions (e.g., nutrients, temperature, and pH) and growth rate. Hydrolytic enzymes such as proteases, amylases, and cellulases, etc. are produced in the range of milligrams per liter to grams per liter.

10. Are these quantities enough to start to compare to straight enzyme products?

Since we don't have any information on the enzyme content of current "straight enzyme" products, it is difficult to answer this question. It is also a function of dosing of the product (i.e., how much, how often). In general, one can assume that the customer could have more control over initial enzyme concentration by adding a prepared enzyme product. However, bacterial cultures can produce competitive amounts of enzyme after a short colonization period. Bacteria can grow very quickly, doubling their populations in as little as 20-40 minutes. In some applications, it is common to "boost" bacterial colonization by adding a small amount of prepared enzyme to begin degrading the available food. This is often done in composting processes to jump-start the bacterial/fungal growth.


1. What are Bacteria?

Bacteria are single-celled organisms that do not have well-defined organelles such as a nucleus. The cells are typically enclosed in a rigid cell wall and a plasma membrane. Bacteria contain all of the genetic material necessary to reproduce, and they reproduce by simple cellular division. Bacteria show a wide range of nutrient requirements and energy-related metabolism. Some bacteria require only minerals and a carbon source such as sugar for growth, while others require more complex growth media. Bacteria play an extremely important role in recycling nutrients in the environment. Bacteria break down organic matter into simple compounds like carbon dioxide and water, and they cycle important nutrients such as nitrogen, sulfur, phosphorus. Bacteria can migrate to areas that are rich in specific nutrients that they require for growth. Bacteria can also attach themselves to surfaces and form communities known as biofilms.


2. What are Enzymes... An enzyme is a protein that acts as a catalyst. The enzyme is responsible for accelerating the rate of a reaction in which various substrates are converted to products through the formation of an enzyme-substrate complex. In general, each type of enzyme catalyzes only one type of reaction and will operate on only one type of substrate. This is often referred to as a "lock and key" mechanism. As a consequence, enzymes are highly specific and are able to discriminate between slightly different substrate molecules. In addition, enzymes exhibit optimal catalytic activity over a narrow range of temperature, ionic strength and pH.

3. Do enzymes break down any molecule or just specific ones and how specific do they get?

The specificity of an enzyme for it's substrate is generally a function of the enzyme's "active site" or binding site. The structure of the protein determines the range of substrates or "keys" that can fit into the lock. Most enzymes are exquisitely specific. That is, they react only with one specific substrate. Some enzymes, however, have a more flexible active site that can accommodate molecules that are closely related to the target substrate. In this case, there is typically a preferred substrate with which the enzyme reacts at a higher rate than with related compounds.

Blah blah blah what does all this mean. Ok the compounds that bacteria break down are complex and there molecules are also long and complex. So bacteria release an enzyme (or in the case of hygrozyme it releases the enzyme for us) to break down these long complex chains (molecules). Once they are broken down into something doable the bacteria can now consume the smaller molecules. Some thoughts for further consideration relate to these enzymatic products making nutrient available that we might not want....like nitrogen in late flowering. I don't use hygrozyme in late flowering stages because I worry that it does exactly that. Also these enzymes(weather fungal or bacterial) function in very specific environments and doing things like adjusting the oh or having drastic temp swings or thing like that can have a disastrous effect on the amounts of bennys in the soil. Always remember just like its hard to duplicate the strength of the sun its also hard to duplicate the diversity and number of bennys(beneficial bacteria and fungi...should have said that earlier for the newbies) in container gardening that would be present in good ole mother nature so whatever help we can get (thru products like hygrozyme that provide a food source for bacteria helping them to multiply)

But back to my original question I wish someone would tell me what fucking enzymes are in hygrozyme...hell we don't even know if they are enzymes that are more specific to fungi or bacteria but whatever. In my efforts to dial in on my nutrient regiment I guess I'm going to have to be happy knowing the shit works and leave it at that.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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1. I use Hygrozyme in soil. There are many benefits to using it in soil or hydroponics. What it is, and what it does are described in these excerpts from the Hygrozyme website:
I wish I could have quoted what you quoted (no nesting quotes!) from the Hygrozyme website, but really what I read there was nothing more than a bunch of mumbo jumbo, and they never really said anything. Not what it IS, only talking loosely about what it does, and not in terms that are easily understood such that they could be relayed in anything resembling an intelligent, or intelligible manner.

What do they mean when they say that enzyme formulas are the gold standard for STERILIZATION in the medical industry? This is something I have never once read or experienced and even upon the most cursory examination elsewhere can be found as untrue (heat and certain chemicals, yes, enzymes, no). What enzyme formulas, and how does that relate to their formula? I'm going to call bullshit on that assertion right there, which places each and every other assertion they've made into the Highly Suspect Category.

In fact, when I search on sterilization methods and methodology, enzymes and anything that uses 'enzymatic action' never comes up. Many other things, like radiation, do.

Doesn't mean Hygrozyme doesn't do what's advertised. It means that they put a lot of mumbo jumbo bullshit into their advertising and "information."

To be clear, also, I'm not calling you out. I'm calling the manufacturer out.
 
S

Sea Of Green

Guest
No offense taken. And I agree that's a poor definition of what the product is and what it does. I'm a bit ashamed at posting that excuse for an explanation to a relatively simple concept to understand. Which is, stated simply, the link between enzymes and the bacteria and fungi that produce them. More importantly their role in plant nutrition. Which has now been covered well by THegrowshow's last post. Good post BTW.
In some applications, it is common to "boost" bacterial colonization by adding a small amount of prepared enzyme to begin degrading the available food. This is often done in composting processes to jump-start the bacterial/fungal growth.
I've found through my own experimentation with Hygrozyme since it came on the market that in my grow setup it appears to have some, albeit minimal, benefit when applied in small quantities. My theory is that it works well in conjunction with the mycorrhizal/BB product I use. When I don't use it my yields decrease some. So I made the decision that, though it's not cheap, it's worth the money for me to use it. Plain and simple.
 
symbiote420

symbiote420

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Anybody heard of kelp/seaweed? you know bacteria, enzymes, growth hormones, etc., etc.
 
cemchris

cemchris

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I use Biobizz alg-a-maic and topmax. Veg and flower. I know you want cold pressed seaweed. If its green its good. If its brown go buy the green stuff.
 
S

Steel Erection

313
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Just quit using Hygrozyme, got tired of gunked up air stones. Got a gallon and a half left I'm gonna use it to soak my stones in.- SE
 
freegrow

freegrow

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2. This leads me to my second question which is does it stress the plant to combine organic and inorganic nutrient delivery modes to the plant (I know fox farm does this but I've always wondered what you guys think.

Thank you farmer in advance

organic is the one best thing you can do for taste (best results are in coco or soil or soiless) these organic nutes made for hydro can cause res. to be dirty and sludge can build up but if taken proper care it can be done

Yea really +1 on that.

Beneficial bacteria and a carbohydrate program for me - keep that DWC clean and shiny for 'effin weeks.

DWC , Beneficials and sugars are not compatable

plants need chelated nutes

microbes need imobile nutes to trade to plants
for sucrose (carbs or sugars) plants dont take in sugar at all

chelated nutes essentialy kill off microbes do to starvation
no imobile nutes no food for microbes

unless you add carbs then the microbes eat that sugar
but that doesnt help the plant at all

so to sum up in DWC or any waterworking system (or any system for that matter soil coco etc.) if you use chelated nutes it starves off alot of microbes if you use both organic and chelated nutes you can reach a balance but dont add benes. and just chelated nutes this is folly a wast of money

for that matter I think the "organic " nutes for hydro are chelated

is that an oxymoron ( chelated organic ) ? ........hmmmmmm:hi
 
T

THegrowshow

51
8
I'm sorry seamaiden I'm away from home right .ow not near a computer but please Google it and you will be surprised. Many laundry detergents, soaps, hospitals, carpet.cleaning companies and other cleansing type companies use enzymes as cleaners. I mean bacteria are the worlds decomposers and they use enzymes to break apart compounds before the bacteria gobbles them up. Do you not think this aspect is true I mean I understand you saying you don't think hygroyme is full of enzymes but to rebuke a scientific fact that people wayyy more informed and knowledgeable than anyone on the farmer?
 

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