Advanced pump setup and no gravity drain

[noone88]

A lot of us are using the Danner Mag drive pumps and using gravity drain to drain the system. What are some good ideas for using pool pumps to feed the system and then to also return the water back into the sytem?

I was looking at pool pumps, specifically ones with strainer baskets:

http://www.pentairpool.com/products/pumps-inground-whisperflo-high-performance-pump-193.htm

The 1/2 HP pump is rated at 5400gph, which is enough to fill 13 tubs.

When the water is returned to the reservoir, should you use a slightly higher gph pump?

I can't take credit for this; I saw it on here:

Anyone ever use pool pumps? Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

 

[mrdizzle]

I dont think thats necessary, KISS

 

[swisscheese]

I was thinking about that too I would rather use a tall res like a 55 gallon drum to save on floor space and just buy the extra pump. I'm starting to build this week.

 

[noone88]

Only reason I post this is that some people have height limitations for their rooms. In addition, gravity draining a system for res changes takes a long time.

 

[noone88]

I found some pumps that would work in our applications. Some have built-in filters. They are low wattage and move a lot of water.

http://www.mdminc.com/Sequence.aspx

 

[nouvellechef]

How big are your tubs? 5400 is big.

 

[noone88]

Currently trying to design a 13k watt / 13 tree setup using the casa le depot strong boxes (27 gallon). I want to be able to fill all the tubs with one pump and then recycle the nutrient water with an inline pump.

 

[MedicalINFO]

I've been thinking about this too, it definitely could revolutionize the med buckets. I have 7' 2" ft ceilings and would love to take my buckets off the second bucket. I'm all about this idea!!!!! :)

 

[swisscheese]

It would have to be a sealed system really with each box connected to the next via the drain tubes. The undercurrent system similar to this works like that doesn't it?

 

[Desertboy]

300w, my 7000ltr/hour (Us crazy europeans and our metric system!) eats 250w

A better more efficient pump would pay for itself quickly.

 

[noone88]

UC works slightly differently. Water is pumped into the control bucket and the nutrient water is then circulated passively through the other tubs.

Other systems, like Krusty buckets or mpb buckets uses a pump to fill the tubs, and then gravity drains it out back to the reservoir.

Large pool pumps that are non submersible and work in-line are a lot more energy efficient than running multiple danner magdrives. I'm trying to find out if anyone has used pool pumps for hydroponics in an inline-setup and their experiences with it.

 

[MedicalINFO]

If you are familiar with the med buckets they have a 4" drain gravity return that finishes at a 100 gallon res. I'm thinkin that the smallest inline pump at the end of the gravity return would pump the water in to a taller bigger reservoir. So you could still use gravity to exchange in and out of the buckets but the return would be against the floor then through an inline pump and back to the res.

How would we rout the 4" return in to an inline pump?

How powerful are these pumps, we don't need that much power, and too much would be the issue......

 

[noone88]

The 4" return pipe on Doubleds design is not completely full of nutrient solution. It's definitely overkill.

The pumps I linked are using 2" inlet/outlet connections. According to this chart:
http://www.flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml
2" inch PVP pipe can handle anywhere between 3300-12000gph.

You will always use some kind of reservoir, or a control tub/bucket/reservoir.

I'm theorizing right now because i've never set it up this way, but from what I can see in pictures, the water and pumps are arranged like this:

Reservoir with a bulk head/uniseal located at the base which feeds your first pump (feeder pump) which has 2" inch diameter outlet. With pvc piping, you can evenly divide the flow to your tubs. The nutrient solution is then returned back through a separate set of pvc pipes which feeds your second pump (return pump). The outlet of your second pump dumps the water via waterfall to your reservoir.

This kind of setup is mainly for pools and ponds, but it can be adapted for our setup.

Lastly, you want your tubs or any of your reservoirs sitting on concrete. Concrete sucks up tons of heat.

We need a pool expert!

 

[MedicalINFO]

"You will always use some kind of reservoir, or a control tub/bucket/reservoir. "

Do you have to gravity to this?

how big is the tub?

sorry this is new for me.


Could we shrink the four inch return to 2" ,gravity feed down the plant rows " standard D's mpb style" then through an inline pump and right back in to the reservoir?
:)

 

[noone88]

Inline pumps will cause a suction effect so you don't need to use gravity.

yes, you can easily feed 4" pvc piping into 2" pvc pipes.

I'll be setting something up like this, but it's still a few months away.

 

[OregonMeds]

I have been working on what you want. Shit I didn't want to give up the goods until I had a working system to show but anyway... Good idea man, but think a bit smaller on the pump, 1/4hp or less would do. I'm looking at one from an indoor spa for a single pump system or better yet get a big iwaki wmd100 or similar.

But take it a few steps further my friend... Forget about using a standard pump/strainer. There is a thing in the aquarium world called a mesh mod. You trim your impeller, replace it's surface area with mesh like a green scrubber pad or buy the stuff from meshmod.com or whatever it is. Google this stuff.

Then what you made is better than any off the shelf pump and a fucking aerating monster. You put a simple venturi on the intake, the mesh shreds the bubbles into micro bubbles better than any needle wheel pump etc and will replace much of the aerating features of dd's system you are cutting out.

If you downsize the 4" return you cheat yourself of aeration in dd's system. The turbulent surface area of every inch of water is part of the whole deal. You need to replace aeration and this will do it in spades.

There are many "how to's" on this.

Also add more surface area for the roots to grab onto, again look to the aquarium world there are a few options better than lava or hydroton like bio balls...

You have to add a few extra things like that to equal or surpass dd's system.

Also for redundancy and even more aeration run two of those pumps in series all connected to the same stuff. One goes out and everything will be just fine.

 

[swisscheese]

Oh shit you just caught onto my idea! I am planning to run bio balls instead of hydroton this run. I like the way this thread is going though. I can see the no gravity drain happening this week. Hopefully you smart people give me something to copy so I don't have to try to invent it.

 

[TyKaycha]

Are bio balls (BB) those things used in aquarium & pond filters? I could see that working with a top drip, as I don't think the balls will wick up anything. The BB drainage would be great though. Maybe a mixture of BB & chunky perlite or hydroton. Or like I mentioned - a slow top drip.

 

[MedicalINFO]

Thanks Noone I get it now :)

Do you have to pre-treat the Bio Balls like you do hydroton, What kind of ph do they have?

I'm not trying to beat D's system, Just trying to get rid of all the weird hight/ low profile requirements

 

[noone88]

The aeration in this setup is caused by the return pump, when it feeds back into the reservoir, it will dump the water from approximately 2 feet in height straight down into the control tub.