NFT said:

thanks mate
looking forward to the mothers milk, i started a few last year they were male so have been waiting some time
other strains took my fancy at the time not got round to running the rest of the pack until now
only heard good things about bodhi and mothers milk in particular , im sure if this turns out ok ill run some more bodhi
although the next run i do will be mainly karma genetics gear i have some old biker kush to finish off
and a pack of jack o nesia that i have had for quite some time

peace

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cool. I've got a pack of jack cheddar by karma. heard great stuff about his gear.
unlucky about the all male mothers milk, i think we got about 7 females. Had a few micro seeds in them, hardly any and it didn't spoil the bud at all. Very nice gear indeed. Awesome bag appeal. Ive run quite a few of bodhis strains and have about 15 more packs in the fridge, any advice u need please don't hesitate to ask. But to be fair u seem to know what you are doing. :)

Limonene said:

cool. I've got a pack of jack cheddar by karma. heard great stuff about his gear.
unlucky about the all male mothers milk, i think we got about 7 females. Had a few micro seeds in them, hardly any and it didn't spoil the bud at all. Very nice gear indeed. Awesome bag appeal. Ive run quite a few of bodhis strains and have about 15 more packs in the fridge, any advice u need please don't hesitate to ask. But to be fair u seem to know what you are doing. :)

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i enjoyed karmas biker kush that was very nice i kept that for a while
fancied growing some haze again i have not grown any haze for a while
i have a few different amnesia crosses including the jack o nesia
not sure if i will be able to fit them all in hazes tend to overgrow my garden

i got some daybreaker also but that is a diesel cross have had for about two years, i looked at my old order i had forgot they cost £65 ill have to run them too
i ran a few when i got them and the germ rate was terrible

have you ran any gagegreen ? i have heard mixed results from other growers some folk love them some folks seem to hate them

what bodhi strain did you have most success with ?

Hey mate the majority of my current grow is coffee shop amnesia haze, VERY nice cut we have. I run it 11/13 and its ready in 9 weeks instead of 10.
Not tried gage green, also heard mixed reports but I'm sure they have some fire.

Loved the goji, sunshine daydream, mothers milk, dream beaver.
moutain temple was very good too but not my fave personally but a great strain.
Had a weird packet of ancient ogs which a lot of people say is fire. I had 10 males and the 1 female was a mutant runt.
similar with super snow lotus.
Jabbas stash my friend grew and i think he fucked up fiddling with his timer (god knows why). could see a lot of potential in that line he just didn't hit it.

next up i have a pack of silver mountain and bbhp going into flower. probably in about a month. I have heard amazing things about those lines. Got way too many packs in the fridge of his gear, will take a pic to show u rather than type them all out.

nice mate thanks for all the info
i have heard too many good things about bodhi to not run some of his gear
i dont think i heave heard anyone say anything bad about bodhi
i looked at the silver mountain too, almost got that one but i wanted something a little faster finishing at the time
i tend to go from one thing to the next i grow whatever takes my fancy at the time i have no real game plan

is your cutting the bubblegum one, or the lemon one ?
by coffeshop amnesia do you mean the core cut which is SSH ?

peace

hmm about the amnesia its hard to say. It smells of pure lime and lemon week 3-4 but finishes with a lemony creamy bubble gummy smell. I couldn't definitively say which cut it is but its a great yielder and very zesty.

Hey man, great to see you started a thread here. Will be following it of course.

Limonene said:

hmm about the amnesia its hard to say. It smells of pure lime and lemon week 3-4 but finishes with a lemony creamy bubble gummy smell. I couldn't definitively say which cut it is but its a great yielder and very zesty.

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yeh quite a few of them floating around i am sure none of them have anything to do with the soma amnesia haze which is very expensive imo

the amnesia used in the jack o nesia is amnesia D cut , karma says its slightly different to the core cut (amnesia)
more bubblegum and 11 weeks

i have some hy-pro original amnesia too

Sativied said:

Hey man, great to see you started a thread here. Will be following it of course.

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Thanks mate :)
can you shed more light on the amnesia cutting thing ?
its ssh nothing to do with soma ?
as many different amnesia cuttings in Holland as cheese cuttings in england lol ?

Right, Amnesia Haze is the new white widow, which was the new skunk. Amnesia is the most popular cut in NL, easy to sell, for about 20% more than others.

A bit long, mostly copied from a deleted thread: There's the original clone only from hy-pro, now superstrains, 'breeder' name is Zwiep. Which is indeed considered to be a cut from an SSH pheno. Zwiep/hypro at some point admitted it was bag seed from SSH at greenhouse coffeeshop but later changed his story, doesn't want to talk about that part...

While Soma claims differently, sourcing fresh genetics from various continents, his nonetheless very popular Amnesia Haze is by many considered to be the same popular Amnesia cut x Mr Nice G13 Haze. Using Amnesia's name in the name and Soma releasing a couple of other G13 crosses at the same time obviously fueled that rumor, or made it more obvious... whichever it is.

Hypro, now Superstrains seeds, sells Amnesia reg seeds which are based on his SSH cut "Amnesia" x Nevilles.

In other words, both supposedly sell crosses made with the original Amnesia cut, an SSH pheno, and both contain a variety of superior SSH phenos from a similar mix of O Haze, Skunk#1, and NL#. Genetically the one from superstrains is closer as an imo more attractive because nevilles haze is pretty much SSH/Amnesia (O Haze and NL#5) without the Skunk#1. All of them have some variety creating some overlap. Amnesia is considered by some to be a Northerlight-dominant SSH.

I've been smoking it for about a decade, from many different shops hence growers, and never had a lemon-ish pheno. The plant can have hints of citrus and I like limonene-rich bud but the amnesia product is supposed to smell perfumed with a more spicey yet sweet fuel, pinsol-like smell than silver or lemon haze. Greenhouse lemon haze without the lemon comes closer. It's also a bit like laurel but without the hint of mint. If you ask ten people how amnesia smells you probably get 10 different answers. Amensia is a cut and apart from selfing, various other hazes and varieties are used to create seeds adding to the variety.

NFT said:

i have some hy-pro original amnesia too

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There are more pungent versions and probably still better phenos to find in ssh but that's the one. I was very close to getting it till they closed the local grow shop where it was traded. It needs little to no veg from clone, will stretch but still fill up fairly well. Plus it's faster than Soma's and some others. Would love to grow it or see it grown in NFT.

Wanted to cross it with afghani to shorten it, turns out white label (at sensi) did that already, and then crossed that with thai again. I got 8 runts, 3 females, 2 hermies, and 1 extremely leafly, but frosty one that smells even more perfumed than the amnesia I usually buy.

Thanks for the info mate, looking forward to seeing some haze take over the garden
the nevs haze one from hy-pro worries me a little not looking for any 14 week plants hopefully that will not be a problem

i hope i can get something from the (jack o nesia) that is 10-11 weeks or so which leans enough towards the amnesia

pics taken today
1kw hps on the little mothers milk plants trying to encourage them to grow
i could not give them any veg time in this room as the other plants were already flowering
so they have had to make do with just 16 days of cfl for veg





peace

Plants look great as always. Without the hoods as size reference I wouldn't have guesstimate that monster on the right is so large.

NFT said:

the nevs haze one from hy-pro worries me a little not looking for any 14 week plants hopefully that will not be a problem

i hope i can get something from the (jack o nesia) that is 10-11 weeks or so which leans enough towards the amnesia

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Yeah 10-11 is imo too acceptable if it leans towards haze in a haze hybrid. While it's possible hy-pro's amnesia seeds contain plants with flower time between amnesia and nevs, I haven't seen them go over 12 weeks yet (seen dozens of grows in the dutch forums). That is however usually from clone. Haze/sativa -dom from seed often need more veg time (even if you start on 12/12) to reach a certain chronological age to mature enough to flower, rather than a certain size and number of nodes. Point is, might be worth it to veg it under CFL for a few weeks to let it grow older before you grow it taller. Most growers here don't veg amnesia or just very little but then usually top it down again.

Jack-o-nesia sounds good. Jack Herer contains the same O haze and NL#5 as in Nevil's haze and SSH, but instead of Skunk#1 in SSH, Jack Herer also includes Shiva Skunk (which actually is Skunk#1 x NL#5 again...). Jack Herer and SSH/Amnesia (the cut) are based on the same classics, crossed in different orders/combinations. By crossing Amnesia cut with Nevil's, hypro bred out some of the (short flowering) skunk genes, which depending on which pheno was used doesn't have to be the case as much with Jack-o-Nesia.

i never thought of it like that before that is interesting the chronological age rather than size or amount of nodes

the genetic factor of how fast plants differ in vigor is interesting to watch
i tend to germinate alot more seeds than i intend to grow out or keep
i notice the seedling stage unfortunately gives the least amount of indication of how the plant will turn out
the veg stage gives me a better idea of whether the plant will be vigorous or yield well but it still only tells part of the story, its not that yield is the most important thing i just like vigorus plants they are easy to look after they "grow themselves" a plant will have to produce very high quality bud for me to keep any low yielding runts
that produce only random nugs without building proper colas i tend to throw those away

it is not until i see the stretch during the first 3 weeks of flower that i can tell if its going to be a plant i want to keep for yield or not, so i am trying to get to that stage as quickly as possible , giving the seeds less veg time

i am not overly keen on phenos that require lots of veg time to get a decent yield out of a single plant
this kush x cheese can produce 3-5 oz plants in 7-8 weeks total grow time but i do not like the structure they grow in
without giving the plant some veg time it causes the plant to stretch too much upwards at the main head
rather than producing several branches that stretch together into more of a bush
without any veg time more of the yield is produced on lower vine like secondary branches these flop over early on, i was not happy with any of the smaller plants i grew for quality of the colas, for production yield it was pretty good in the time frame but quality slightly suffered , i also felt the colas were more fox-tailed on the smaller plants

when the plant is given some veg time and topped into a bush it gives the best results so far
most of the yield is produced on colas on thicker branches., all of the lower growth can be removed

the 3 clone plants i have on the right of the pic were grown under the 125 cfl and cut down a couple of times
they were about 1ft tall before flower, they will yield about 22-25 oz with 8 week flower time
ill put a 10liter watering can next to them on the next lot of pics for size reference

i rooted some cuttings on 12 hours to see what would happen to the stretch
it totally killed all the stretch they stayed tiny there is a pic on page 1
i threw them away after 3 weeks lol
it made them grow a little odd too, they had only 3 leaf blades
and lots of resin on those leaves, kind of like some of the traits seen on a rejuvenated plants but without the twisted distorted leaves

i decided that what i wanted to achieve is not obtainable with this pheno
unless i increase the plant numbers and pack them in let them veg for a while then top them all into a bush
before flower
removing any thin branches only keeping the large main branches

for me to be happy with the plants i have to get the yield/buds forming on mostly large thick branches
near the top of the plants that was just not possible with the lower numbers of plants and the no veg time

the seedlings seemed to grow at about the same rate under cfl as they would of done under MH for the first 12 days,
i let them grow for 16 days before i felt they were too crowded in the veg cupboard i had them in

i decided they would be better off growing under more light and space in the main area even though they would have to
go on 12 hours as there was already plants flowering in there
i normally expect them to take about 2-3 weeks to start flowering when they get 20 days or less of veg time
they have shown sex pretty early this time compared to my last run where i was a little worried about some of them taking so long to flower with only 21 days veg

the earliest to show this time was showing male flowers after 10 days 12/12 so 26 days total light time
the first female a few days later around 30 days total light time

these mothers milk plants are showing pretty good vigour for a smallish type of plant og dominated
they are all growing in an awful shape though like the fire alien kush i grew
huge rubber like fan leaves getting in the way of everything
so i have applied some heavy bondage and spread/tied them all open
i am happy with them now light is getting all round them and inside them
and i have not removed a single leaf!

peace

It's the ontogenetic age that matters, which is about going through all phases from fertilization as embryo to fully flowering, and some strains (genetics from equatorial origin) won't be rushed as much through those phases by setting the light to 12/12. When you grow a sativa from seed on 12/12 from start for example, it won't actually work on the transition to flower stage while it's still seedling and maturing (and will actually progress slower through those initial phases). When you take a clone you have a head start ontogenetically (carry on some of the maturity level) so they tend to transition faster. Unless you reveg or rejuvenate (tissue culture), which is like ontogenetic time travel :)

I do not like it either when the main bud stretches up a lot more than the rest. Nice for SoG perhaps but not when filling a space with a few plants. Amnesia does that too, but it does fill up nicely (and surprisingly consider the often alternating nodes). My P cross does it too much too. Must-top strain for high yields. I think part of the reason is the fat leaves with too broad leaflets. Amnesia has more narrow leaflets allowing light to penetrate deep into its canopy sort of making up for the stretch.

with the kush x cheese , giving it no veg time causes the stretch to concentrate on the main head
the shape the plants grew in was horrible i bent all the main heads over to keep it under control
at around 3 ft , i guess when the plant has very little side branching development to start with because
of lack of veg it concentrates its growing on growing directly upward as there is no other branches to share the stretch

one of the mothers milk has the flat stem thing on two of the branches
also the bud starting to form in the center of fan leaves not that uncommon see it a fair bit with tga gear




peace

Sativied said:

When you grow a sativa from seed on 12/12 from start for example, it won't actually work on the transition to flower stage while it's still seedling and maturing (and will actually progress slower through those initial phases).

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i was thinking this myself i have not done any 12/12 from seed runs i am not sure if this would have any advantage
(making them flower earlier) and as you say might even make it slower lol

watching the seedlings grow it is at 9 days and 12 days that i mostly notice the transition to the veg stage
i do not think if the seedling stage was on 12/12 it would make the plant flower any quicker
most of the 12/12 grows i have looked at folk are saying its around 30 days that plants show sex
some claim earlier 21 days but for most its around 30

i am pretty happy with the size the mothers milk plants have stretched to
they have some sativa in their genetics the leaves are getting thinner now
but the frame of the plants is typical kush/indica dominated

with 16 days of light before flower they are at a size where they can make 4 oz or more
if the genetics permits it and they grow some nice colas rather than sporadic nuggets
they are just over 2ft but have plenty of fat branches they are still stretching

with the recent grows i have done i can see that the type of plants i want to grow
and with the plant numbers i am comfortable running giving them some veg time
has the advantage of producing plants with more colas
every time i try to do a smaller sog type grow i am always trying to cut the plant number back
i guess this is the wrong way to approach it, sog is just not for me lol
i cant get my head around growing 9 plants in the same space as 2

i do not want to veg for anymore than 2 weeks
this is plenty to produce plants that will yield several oz
but it will still be dependent on the plants having a big growth spurt during flower


if i was growing commercially though i think i would do it 12/12 with no veg from clone
the yield is there the speed is there, just the consistency of colas is the problem
having the yield in colas is more pleasing to me and easier to chop
the overall quality of the smaller plants is only slightly reduced

also i am happy to report i have got over the superstition/habit of
adding phosphoric acid to the res
i can now say this system is 100% ph regulation/measurement free

peace

NFT said:

i do not think if the seedling stage was on 12/12 it would make the plant flower any quicker
most of the 12/12 grows i have looked at folk are saying its around 30 days that plants show sex
some claim earlier 21 days but for most its around 30

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I start mine under 24hrs T8 (54-72watt total) for about two weeks, in a small veg closet, then 18/6 under 400w mh for roughly 2 weeks more and then they usually show sex. I usually don't (have to) switch to 12/12 to sex them. If I do they get more lanky and stretchy. My own crosses I've been growing for two years now anyway, took a lot longer for the Amnesia White. Got a clone from her going that clearly transitioned a lot faster.

A good SoG is hard with NFT unless you use a short indica from clone. Hot Diggity showed that nicely with his octagon, running 12/12 from start, as well, he just had to cut back on plants. It's pretty much why I'm still on soil. I want to run 12-36 plants on 4x4'.

NFT said:

also i am happy to report i have got over the superstition/habit of
adding phosphoric acid to the res
i can now say this system is 100% ph regulation/measurement free

Click to expand...

Does your tap come out that low, do the nutes lower it that much, or does it simply not matter as much as we think? Some elements are better available at a certain ph range, it can take a few weeks before deficiencies show up though I got to say I don't think I ever got deficiencies from running ph high, only too low.

Sativied said:

I start mine under 24hrs T8 (54-72watt total) for about two weeks, in a small veg closet, then 18/6 under 400w mh for roughly 2 weeks more and then they usually show sex. I usually don't (have to) switch to 12/12 to sex them. If I do they get more lanky and stretchy. My own crosses I've been growing for two years now anyway, took a lot longer for the Amnesia White. Got a clone from her going that clearly transitioned a lot faster.

A good SoG is hard with NFT unless you use a short indica from clone. Hot Diggity showed that nicely with his octagon, running 12/12 from start, as well, he just had to cut back on plants. It's pretty much why I'm still on soil. I want to run 12-36 plants on 4x4'.

Does your tap come out that low, do the nutes lower it that much, or does it simply not matter as much as we think? Some elements are better available at a certain ph range, it can take a few weeks before deficiencies show up though I got to say I don't think I ever got deficiencies from running ph high, only too low.

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My starting ph in all the areas i have lived in is 7.2 it never changes the ec is 0.3 -4

the nutes are acidic so a full ec of 2.0 the way i used to run it would reduce the ec to 6.8 or so
i am going on calculations i made almost 20 years ago lol but nothing has changed

i still add 3-5 ml of nutes per liter whether its canna or vitalink
when i started the desirable ph for this system was 6.2 -6.4
so i would add 2-3ml of acid to the 20 liter reservoirs and 5ml to the 50 liter res
to bring it down to 6.2, i would be adding acid every week to keep it at 6.2
maybe twice per week

over time i just relaxed it to adding 3-5 ml of acid every two weeks then every month
and now finally not at all

i can only estimate that my ph this time round was around 6.8 to 7.0
i did not add any acid though the whole grow and the ec did not go above 1.8
the 3 large clones were drinking lots of water it needed 8 liters per day of water added to the res
this is going to bring the ph back up to 7.0 or so daily but never above 7.2

i can only conclude that it just does not matter and the plants grow fast
but this is dependent on having a clean stable tap water supply
folk using r/o should stick to ph

on a ph from 5.8 to 7 from my experience it works fine when allowed to swing
only the top ups of nutes and water control the ph
the chealted elements may help vitalink has no ph buffers canna does and that works just the same

i do not believe the nutes are that important compared to genetics/light/water
the plants consumes huge amounts of light and water, they only nibble on the nutes from time to time

selecting vigorous genetics and using as much light as possible without hurting them
keeping the plants warm 80-85f while constantly having water available with hydro no wet dry cycle like with soil
the hotter i can keep them the more they will drink in turn the faster they will grow to a point anyway
i do not like things going over 90f and i try to keep them below 80 when they buds start to come

3 clones on the right will come down in a few days at 8 weeks
mothers milk just starting to bud she has grown pretty well
the largest on the left is just over 3ft and has a nice open shape
the two in the middle are very bushy, starting to show more sativa signs with the leaves
the freak plant has split into two at the head without topping it has also grown extra sets of leaves



















peace

your bud to plant/leaf ratio is pretty off the hook!

Just gotta say your thread has made me consider giving NFT a go. Seems like it would be less hassle than DWC and could be scaled down considerably unlike some of the ebb and flow systems I've seen.

Your gear looks killer. I didn't read some of the longer posts so forgive me if you've answered this, but is it the genetics that are causing some foxtailing or is there an environmental reason behind this?

The reason I ask is I only see foxtailing when heat or hydration issues become apparent for extended periods of time. Personally it drives me nuts, creates hollow looking buds. Also, what is the total liquid volume of the individual NFT systems?

Those root mats look cool as hell and root removal can be accomplished in seconds instead of hours like when working with reusable media of any type. I take it there is some wicking action that occurs, pulling water up to the roots exposed to the air. Am I correct in this assumption?

Super healthy looking set up, has gears turning in my head. Thanks for sharing @NFT.

One Love,
tobh