Always the same issue

[johnnyrex]

Hello farmers I always have the same f-ing issue with PH I have been growing in UC for 4 years now.
So I know what to look for I have no root rot I'm in 3rd week of veg my EC starts at .4 and ph is dropping why? this always happens around 3rd week of veg.
Temps 80-83 tops
Water temp 65-68
RH 60-70%
CO2 600 ppm

In the beginning it's great I get a ph swing upwards but once I get1 week away from flower ph drop I really hate this crap

 

[Wildill]

How do the plants look?

 

[johnnyrex]

My plants look very good I was looking for the ph drop and today was the day

 

[Texas Kid]

Add a ph doser and it won't matter...I correct every week most of the time but every day if needed, just the nature of the beast and as the root mass displaces more water in the system it gets a little more sensitive

 

[johnnyrex]

Add a ph doser and it won't matter...I correct every week most of the time but every day if needed, just the nature of the beast and as the root mass displaces more water in the system it gets a little more sensitive

Thanks Texas kid but according to Q9 he stated that if ph drops there is something wrong I checked everything triple check no root rot condition don't vary. I understand adjusting your ph or ec but when things are good it should swing up instead of down.

 

[Texas Kid]

Q9 has dosers on all their setups these days if I remember correctly..they have a deal with Grohaus and also UC to pretty much use them on all their new setups...I was talking to DS awhile back about doing one of my warehouse setups using their dosers and injectors

 

[bigdaddyg8]

Add a ph doser and it won't matter...I correct every week most of the time but every day if needed, just the nature of the beast and as the root mass displaces more water in the system it gets a little more sensitive

my problems start in flower at about week 6 when the boost nutes are larger than the base nutes .
the ph drops and the ppm's rise slightly .

i use cs nutes and pretty much follow the cs chart .
water temp between 65-68 degrees .
room temp , day 83 deg , night 77 deg .
RH 60%
co2 =800
i have also been dealing with this for the last three years .

i always get a good yield . but what i understand the PH is suppose to rise and the ppm's are suppose to go down .
during the rise of the ph the plants are to take in different nutes at different ph .

i have been using cs nutes since they were conceived .

been seriously thinking about using another line of nutes ?

 

[Protaide]

If we exclude a pH drop from too high of nutes (which EC 0.4 should be) there are a couple other factors possibly to consider.

If a person (Q9) suggests that pH change is related to a mix issue, it's probably this;
If the NH4/NO3 ratio is too high; pH will lower.
If the NH4/NO3 ratio is too low; pH will raise.

Another aspect to consider for the OP. It sounds like your plants may be pulling out more "basic ions" from your Veg mix versus "Acidic ions", which will cause a pH drop too. (e.g. plant using more NO3 than NH4 or a large reduction in Ca or Carbonates)

@bigdaddyg8
With pH drop and ppm rise after a nute shift (particularly with a PK booster), here again you probably have too much acidic ions (many boosters are acidic). Since you note a ppm rise, this means that some of the ppm's that are increased for this boost period; are not being utilized (E.G - OD). If you raise P, say 40 ppm for the boost; part of this may not be needed. Similarly if the K is up 80-100 for boost, a portion of this may not be needed. As well, depending on the EC of your boost (since pH and ppm change) it could be possible for just too high EC.

 

[johnnyrex]

Add a ph doser and it won't matter...I correct every week most of the time but every day if needed, just the nature of the beast and as the root mass displaces more water in the system it gets a little more sensitive

Does the grohaus doses ph up & down? If it does then badass. I started my first week of bloom as I added CC nutes 40ml early bloom 40ml of all equal parts veg A&B bloom A&B my ec is at .4 ph set at 5.1 3 days later EC drop to .3 and ph swung up to 5.4 so a good start I try to add back once ec drops to .2 back to .4 to keep ph swing up. Let's see how long this will last I will keep you updated

my problems start in flower at about week 6 when the boost nutes are larger than the base nutes .
the ph drops and the ppm's rise slightly .

i use cs nutes and pretty much follow the cs chart .
water temp between 65-68 degrees .
room temp , day 83 deg , night 77 deg .
RH 60%
co2 =800
i have also been dealing with this for the last three years .

i always get a good yield . but what i understand the PH is suppose to rise and the ppm's are suppose to go down .
during the rise of the ph the plants are to take in different nutes at different ph .

i have been using cs nutes since they were conceived .

been seriously thinking about using another line of nutes ?

Big daddy I hear you sometimes I fell like with going back to House & Garden or canna I drives me crazy

If we exclude a pH drop from too high of nutes (which EC 0.4 should be) there are a couple other factors possibly to consider.

If a person (Q9) suggests that pH change is related to a mix issue, it's probably this;
If the NH4/NO3 ratio is too high; pH will lower.
If the NH4/NO3 ratio is too low; pH will raise.

Another aspect to consider for the OP. It sounds like your plants may be pulling out more "basic ions" from your Veg mix versus "Acidic ions", which will cause a pH drop too. (e.g. plant using more NO3 than NH4 or a large reduction in Ca or Carbonates)

@bigdaddyg8
With pH drop and ppm rise after a nute shift (particularly with a PK booster), here again you probably have too much acidic ions (many boosters are acidic). Since you note a ppm rise, this means that some of the ppm's that are increased for this boost period; are not being utilized (E.G - OD). If you raise P, say 40 ppm for the boost; part of this may not be needed. Similarly if the K is up 80-100 for boost, a portion of this may not be needed. As well, depending on the EC of your boost (since pH and ppm change) it could be possible for just too high EC.

Protaide how do I control NH4/NO3 when I mix my nutes I'm running CC early bloom bloom A&B also veg A&B until 3 more days then no more

 

[Protaide]

Well, if your running "pre-made" formula's it's hard to adjust the NH4/NO3 ratio; other than to raise NH4. You can add more NH4 to any formula easily with a little Ammonium Sulfate, but that will increase the acidity of the mix as a whole.

If you want to increase the basicity of your mix by adjusting NH4/NO3; then your best bets are Potassium Nitrate or Calcium Nitrate. These, in general, are going to be easier to "Work in" if you are making a nute profile from scratch vs. supplementing an "A+B" mix. However, you may be able to add a small bit in. I can not really find much for the guaranteed analysis for the CC A&B, so I'm not sure what levels that brand runs at already.

Since your seeing this, still during the stretch phase (late); you may be able to augment some CaNO3 without issue. A note to consider though, watch to see if your pH starts to come back up after the stretch is over. It may be that your just getting the higher basic ion drain during this Stretch phase (E.G. higher NO3 and Ca removal) and will recover as growth spurting slows.

I wonder if your just losing the base saturation of Ca @ wk 3 too, since your in coir. Do you pre-charge your coir by chance?

 

[johnnyrex]

Well, if your running "pre-made" formula's it's hard to adjust the NH4/NO3 ratio; other than to raise NH4. You can add more NH4 to any formula easily with a little Ammonium Sulfate, but that will increase the acidity of the mix as a whole.

If you want to increase the basicity of your mix by adjusting NH4/NO3; then your best bets are Potassium Nitrate or Calcium Nitrate. These, in general, are going to be easier to "Work in" if you are making a nute profile from scratch vs. supplementing an "A+B" mix. However, you may be able to add a small bit in. I can not really find much for the guaranteed analysis for the CC A&B, so I'm not sure what levels that brand runs at already.

Since your seeing this, still during the stretch phase (late); you may be able to augment some CaNO3 without issue. A note to consider though, watch to see if your pH starts to come back up after the stretch is over. It may be that your just getting the higher basic ion drain during this Stretch phase (E.G. higher NO3 and Ca removal) and will recover as growth spurting slows.

I wonder if your just losing the base saturation of Ca @ wk 3 too, since your in coir. Do you pre-charge your coir by chance?

Thanks Protaide no I'm doing UC not coir and I'm currently ending week 1 I have adjusted some what my cal mix and it's seem to work better for me this round keeping them a little higher in ec at .5 once they dip down to .3 I add back nutes to .5 still getting a PH swing up let's see. Thanks for the info

 

[Dizzy Weasel]

My plants look very good I was looking for the ph drop and today was the day

Are you changing out your water? I had same issue trying to run same water too long... The unusable salts build up and cause the ph to drop when the usable ratio is way off... I started doing changeout when this would happen and now preventitively if I have time, drain system, then flush system with fresh water pumped into epi, while circ. pump is still draining for like 10 additional min. (This flushes out bottom water left in buckets with clean water) Then fill with fresh stew.. solved this very issue for me

 

[johnnyrex]

Are you changing out your water? I had same issue trying to run same water too long... The unusable salts build up and cause the ph to drop when the usable ratio is way off... I started doing changeout when this would happen and now preventitively if I have time, drain system, then flush system with fresh water pumped into epi, while circ. pump is still draining for like 10 additional min. (This flushes out bottom water left in buckets with clean water) Then fill with fresh stew.. solved this very issue for me

Sorry for not getting back sooner but I do change my every week not everytime I have a ph drop. What I have to do is up my EC I have found that if I dose higher ec I get a ph up swing again. But as soon as my girls drink up water and my ec drops than my ph drops again I'm up to week 4 and my start of week 4 is .9 I don't like to run it that high. But I have too I will try to change my water when my ec gets to .6 that that ec my ph drops.
Ps I do exchange water for like 30min to get bot salts out every week

 

[Dizzy Weasel]

Sorry for not getting back sooner but I do change my every week not everytime I have a ph drop. What I have to do is up my EC I have found that if I dose higher ec I get a ph up swing again. But as soon as my girls drink up water and my ec drops than my ph drops again I'm up to week 4 and my start of week 4 is .9 I don't like to run it that high. But I have too I will try to change my water when my ec gets to .6 that that ec my ph drops.
Ps I do exchange water for like 30min to get bot salts out every week[/quote

Sorry for not getting back sooner but I do change my every week not everytime I have a ph drop. What I have to do is up my EC I have found that if I dose higher ec I get a ph up swing again. But as soon as my girls drink up water and my ec drops than my ph drops again I'm up to week 4 and my start of week 4 is .9 I don't like to run it that high. But I have too I will try to change my water when my ec gets to .6 that that ec my ph drops.
Ps I do exchange water for like 30min to get bot salts out every week

Hmm... Wierd takes 3weeks minimum for me to encounter this issue from nutes getting out of balance...... are you sure you don't have a root zone issue at all? Or using an organic additive? Maybe too much early bloom in your mix I don't have equal parts till week 4... And still it's slightly less than amount of my base. Do you use any preventitive prouducts like zone, uc roots or bleach?

 

[johnnyrex]

Hmm... Wierd takes 3weeks minimum for me to encounter this issue from nutes getting out of balance...... are you sure you don't have a root zone issue at all? Or using an organic additive? Maybe too much early bloom in your mix I don't have equal parts till week 4... And still it's slightly less than amount of my base. Do you use any preventitive prouducts like zone, uc roots or bleach?

I have checked prior to week 2 if bloom and no issue roots pearly white now I'm at start of week 5 those bitched are just too big and heavy to pickup and with the cage it's just not possible. I am using UC Roots I just ran out I was doing to ask what can I use in the mean time while I get my shipment of UC roots back?

 

[Dizzy Weasel]

I have checked prior to week 2 if bloom and no issue roots pearly white now I'm at start of week 5 those bitched are just too big and heavy to pickup and with the cage it's just not possible. I am using UC Roots I just ran out I was doing to ask what can I use in the mean time while I get my shipment of UC roots back?

Bleach solution it's the same thing 200ml of bleach to a gal of RO h2o

 

[Dizzy Weasel]

have you ever found a resolution to this? low ec and everything thing i normally do works perfect but i have a new strain that is causing your exact problem and it is really frustrating because my other girls do not have this issue

 

[Warrioreuel]

I have very similar issues. About 1 week into flower my PH drops to 4, every time. Does not matter what line of nutes I am running. I keep my water temps at 64-65 and never have root issues. I can flush the entire system and the next day i have the exact same issue. So far I just add PH up 5 or 6 times a day. I wish I knew what was causing this. My typical PPMs are anywhere from 300 to 600 (3 different systems running). Two of my systems are UC and the other is a DIY same as UC.

 

[DapperDon]

Okay after pouring through all of this again, here is the unasked questions to those that are having PH issues. What are you all using for measuring devices, where are they located in relation to your grow, and when was the last time they were calibrated correctly?

 

[Warrioreuel]

I use the Bluelab Guardian Monitor and yes i cal it every month when it starts flashing. I really don't think my meter is the issue. The meter (i have 2 actually) has been very stable. My problem is, everything is fine for the first 4 or 5 weeks. About 1 or 2 weeks after first hairs are spotted the PH tanks. Sometimes I have seen it as low as 3.8 over night. I have changed the water twice in one day to make sure its flushed. My tap water is about 150 PPM, 7.2 PH. I let it sit in a 100 gallon holding tank over night running air through it before using. Add my nutrients (in this case Jacks Hydro 5-12-26 i think it is and CalNit 15-0-0) to anywhere from 400 to 600 PPM. Within 1 or 2 days I get the same problem. One thing I can think of is I have to add lots of phosphoric acid to get the PH to even a moderate 6. I have experimented doing this over a 3 or 4 day period and all at once. Seems to make no difference in the final out come. Possibly the phosphoric acid is causing the PH to go super low over time? I could try using RO water instead but it just takes a long time for me to generate 100 gallons (all day). I just now called Jacks and the only suggestion they had was my tap water has very little buffering ability and therefore sucseptable to PH swings. I dunno the answer. Changing the water in one of the three systems as we speak.