anyone ever tried real organic hydroponics?

[Seamaiden]

Fish : Plants is an important ratio. You can always lean a bit heavy on the plant side and foliar feed some maxicrop if they're a bit deficient. If you lean the other way the fish will not like it. Note you're really balancing the fish metabolism against the plant metabolism - so the rate you feed the fish affects this as well as the number of fish, and the amount of light and vigor of the plants affects it as well as the number/size of vegetation.

Tank volume: Greater water volume provides more buffering capacity. Safer to have more water than you need than too little.

Biofilter: Extremely important. Am I to understand you didn't have one, Sputnik? If that's the case I'm not surprised your system never worked. The nitrification cycle is a core-component of aquaponics. Like the water volume, bigger is better as it will provide more stability. If it can't keep up the fish will poison themselves with their own ammonia.

I have to quote this post and put bells on it. It's extremely important that you provide a home for the nitrifyers because they are what is called 'benthic,' that is to say they are associated with the 'sea' floor. The opposite is pelagic, aka free-floating or open ocean-dwelling. Providing a home that's relatively undisturbed is UBER-important for establishing, continuing and maintaining the nitrification cycle.

Ok the run down couldnt be simpler.

2 x 50l tubs
50l hydroton
1 x 1300l/h water pump
1 x dual outlet air pump
2 x airstones
1 x aquarium heater
1 x automatic fish feeder
some plastic hose and various elbows/t-pieces

basically i have a 50l tub which acts as a growbed/biofilter. so the growbed is the biofilter. this is hands down the most important piece of the puzzle. the grow bed/bio filter is filled with hydroton clay balls. fairly obviously the clay balls support the plant and the roots.

However its most important job is to house the Nitrifying bacteria. these little guys live in the hydroton and the water is cycled through the grow bed constantly. as the water/fish waste passes through the grow bed/bio filter these bacteria will convert the fish waste (Ammonia) into nitrites and then they will convert the nitrites into readily available nitrates.
without this naturally occurring and very simple process the whole aquaponics garden will fail. the nitrates would build up to toxic levels and kill the fish and the plants would not have any nutrients to survive.
It is probably worth noting at this stage that Pythium/Root rot is non existent in aquaponics. most likely due to the high populations of beneficial bacteria living in the system. it never gets a chance to get a foot hold despite the fact that the whole system runs warm water. which the plants seem to enjoy just as much as the fish:)

There is also a very happy colony of Red wrigglers (composting worms) in my grow bed. As i understand it you can live without these guys but i dont know why you would. there job is to get any large solid fish waste or leaf matter etc that find its way into the grow bed and break it down. this helps make it more available to the plants an the bacteria while makig sure your system doesnt become clogged up with fish poo. i wasnt sure how much the worms would like it in the system but they seem to love it. i find the little baby worms anywhere the water gets, i find them in wedges between the lids and the tubs, i have found colonies living inside the drip rings, in the grow bed, just everywhere. unlucky for them because whenever i find a worm somewhere it isnt supposed to be it becomes a delicious fish treat :)

On to the Fish tank. i use another 50l fish tank sitting under the growbed, i could easily have had a bigger fish tank but it would just have been for aesthetics really and to give the fish a little more room but the 50l works fine.
i have the fish tank turned 90degrees to the grow bed so the grow bed can sit on top of it and i still have an opening to access the fish and so that the fish can still get some light etc.

Thats right the tank isnt a sterile light tight system. algae grows in there and all sorts of stuff. since root rot isnt an issue and the fish seem to snack on the algae between meals having it open is fine. plus again i think the fish like having a choice between the shaded area under the grow bed and the lighted area out the front. Happy fish makes for a healthy system IMO.
on that note i have a few aquarium decorations and hidey holes in there for the fish to play around just like a real fish tank.

also like a real fish tank you have to keep the fish comfortableso there is an aquarium heater to keep the water temp up around 24c (75f) and i also have some airstones in there becuase fish will die without oxygen and if for some reason my water pump fails i dont want to lose my fish.

i Have 7 Gold fish that are responsible for tending to my garden while im not around. they started off around 1.5inches when i bought them and have rapidly grown in the course fo this grow to around 6 inches. the fish grow incredibly fast in this system because i feed them 4 times a day with an automated feeder. in an ordinary fishtank you couldnt do that becuase the fish poo would create too much ammonia and the fish would poison themselves in no time at all. however in aquaponics the plants keep the water clean so you can feed the fish pretty much all they can eat. i even give them little feeds in between the automated ones because they come scurrying to the surface whenever they see me (those little fish love me so much).

The food is 100% organic and is a high protein high fat feed. perfect for strong fish and plants.
i dont actually know what goes into it but i buy t from an aquaponics specific store and its very cheap. so far this grow has cost me about $12 in fish feed.

the water is cycled constantly in my system. traditionally aquaponics is flood and drain but it doesnt really matter what system you use as long as you provide a decent home for bacteria and plants that has high oxygen and consistent water flow. the rule of thumb for aquaponics is the full volume of water must circulate at least once an hr. so for a 50l system like mine i really only need to circulate 50l an hr of water to keep the biofilter etc working correctly but the constant flow and the waterfall effect is where i get most of my oxygen so i run it constant. clay balls work well with constant flow anyway.

my water is pumped up from a pump in the fish tank and is distributed by a home made drip ring. it is important to keep in mind some of these fish poo's get quite big and you will need large holes in your drip ring to allow it pass through without it clogging up and as mentioned worms and all sorts of things will end up in there so big holes are a must. the water flows through the grow bed and simply drains out the bottom via 2 holes i drilled about half an inch above the base of the grow bed and drops a few inches back into the fish tank.

that is the whole circle completed in detail. it might sound complicated but its very basic when you go back and see the components needed.

Now some of you are probably wondering about PH by now. Ph is a funny thing in these systems . it is for the most part self buffering once the bacteria take control of the show. they will keep it in check pretty well. it is how ever different to what we are used to in hydro. PH is usually in the range of 6-7 PH because that is the range where the bacteria are most comfortable. it doesnt seem to affect nutrient uptake at all in fact i doubt that you will see any nutrient deficienies at all in veg and your plants will be the healthiest you have ever seen them.

In flower i did get a potassium deficiency show up. apparently these systems are low on potassium and it is a simple fix. you can add potassium sulphate or potassium hydroxide to increase potassium levels quite easily.

i will try and get some pics for you but i have lost my memory card for my good camera so they might be a little crummy but you should get the gist of it. that will have to wait for lights on though.

Alright, I had to sticky this. And I now MUST make an organic aquaponic rig my next new 'thing.' Especially if I get to have fish as part of the deal? That makes for a very happy Sea.

Now I'm off to read the rest of the posts.

 

[Seamaiden]

Thank you, Stutter! Walking through it like that really helps my understanding. I like the red wrigglers in there, too!

It sounds like I'll need a separate biofilter if I'm in RDWC, since the water by itself won't be enough to support the bennies.

Do I need to inoculate the system, or do the right bacteria just show up? What if a small additional amount of calcium nitrate found its way into the system, bringing triacontanol (nonfermented alfalfa) tea with it?

Nitrifying bacteria need a source of food. We used to start our new systems using urine, fish food left to decompose, or the old way, throw some tosser fish in there to get it going. You can get a handful of gravel from an established system (the fish tank way), or you can just let nature take its course, because it WILL. However, most aquarists have moved away from using fish to start the cycle because it's very stressful and some view it as cruel.

 

[Seamaiden]

If I could figure out a way to make that one post of stutter's the first post, or get it onto the first page, I would do it in a heartbeat. I can feel me gettin' mah fish on!

 

[ttystikk]

I have to quote this post and put bells on it. It's extremely important that you provide a home for the nitrifyers because they are what is called 'benthic,' that is to say they are associated with the 'sea' floor. The opposite is pelagic, aka free-floating or open ocean-dwelling. Providing a home that's relatively undisturbed is UBER-important for establishing, continuing and maintaining the nitrification cycle.

Alright, I had to sticky this. And I now MUST make an organic aquaponic rig my next new 'thing.' Especially if I get to have fish as part of the deal? That makes for a very happy Sea.

Now I'm off to read the rest of the posts.

I can't wait to see what you come up with!

 

[Seamaiden]

It's gonna take me a little while. We only have Petco out here now, the old Pet Stop Pet Shop is gone (and they sucked anyway), and I sold off all my aquarium equipment YEARS ago, so no more pumps, filters, tanks, lights, gravel, you name it, it's gone, gotta start fresh. I think I'll hit Craigslist for it.

 

[ttystikk]

It's gonna take me a little while. We only have Petco out here now, the old Pet Stop Pet Shop is gone (and they sucked anyway), and I sold off all my aquarium equipment YEARS ago, so no more pumps, filters, tanks, lights, gravel, you name it, it's gone, gotta start fresh. I think I'll hit Craigslist for it.

That's my favorite shopping site, Casa De Craigslist! I get everything there, great discounts, lol.

 

[stutter]

i really cant wait to see your new system unfold seamaiden. its going to be awesome i know it

 

[ttystikk]

i really cant wait to see your new system unfold seamaiden. its going to be awesome i know it

It would be awesome to see her reprise her title role, as it were. Seamaiden is a nick I guess she picked up when she worked with fish some time ago... I don't remember how, she mentioned but it's been awhile and my memory was never the greatest even before I started smokin' weed!

 

[Seamaiden]

My nick was chosen as it is the Greco-Roman meaning of my given name, but it does also play on my former work-in-trade (and my Zodiac sign). I'm all kinda watery.

 

[ttystikk]

Just had to throw an idea at you; if fish can tolerate changing water temperatures, the very water in the system itself could be used to dissipate the heat of the indoor grow, especially in winter. This directly replaces cooling tonnage, so the questions about how much water temps can vary and how quickly will have big implications in the design and capacity of such a system. Imagine, the aquaponics nature of the system could actually eliminate the need for traditional AC to cool your grow... that's my idea of payback!

you can wizz in it if you like but really the simplest way is to just add a few fish. just two or three small goldfish. feed them sparingly (once a day) they will produce waste which in turn will increase the ammonia. that is the simplest way to get it started.

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/guide-to-aquaponics/what-is-aquaponics/

everything you need to know is on that page there

 

[ttystikk]

Stutter, thanks for the great read! The website you sent me to read up on aquaponics actually suggested pissing in your system as a method to charge it. It was excellent as a basic primer to the necessary concepts. Their suggestion for 5000 liter fish tanks makes it hard to keep fully indoors.

And yet... since the water has to circulate anyway, maybe it can carry a little excess heat out to the tank, and save a little money on cooling costs?

 

[stutter]

Yeah systems dont need to be that big. I was daunted by aquaponics at first because it seemed the norm was to go large and that didnt fit for me. I tweaked it and made it work for my space.so im sure you could easily do the same. As for using it as a heat sink I'm sure you could work something out.

 

[ttystikk]

Yeah systems dont need to be that big. I was daunted by aquaponics at first because it seemed the norm was to go large and that didnt fit for me. I tweaked it and made it work for my space.so im sure you could easily do the same. As for using it as a heat sink I'm sure you could work something out.

This is a relief. So, how do I more realistically size tasks? I'm thinking of using a 250 gallon tank outside, covered with a roof. Option B is an old hot tub, 300-500 gallons, with jet pump cooling already built in!

For heat dissipation, I could run a fountain, or similar... or, run the jet pump in the hot tub. I will never not need to shed excess heat, so the temps would not fall drastically in wintertime. That would mean a huge reduction in cooling needed for the whole operation, and still getting all the benefits of aquaponics in terms of raising fish and growing great plants.

If that isn't a win-win...

 

[619ster]

Really glad to see Aquaponics peaking the interest of folks around here. Can't wait to see more mmj growers utilizing this method. I could see a future fish breeding/mmj breeding AP garden project going on in the future haha. Thanks for bringing this to the farm Stut! And I agree, if anybody here wants to see some AAA+ dank being grown in Aquaponics, look up El Bandito's "Ganja growing using fish and other organic oddities". Fun stuff all through his grows!!

 

[cctt]

I've made 100 gallons work. More's better, but you can make do!
When designing a system consider where solids will end up. It's no fun if it clogs up somewhere hard to clear.

 

[ttystikk]

I've made 100 gallons work. More's better, but you can make do!
When designing a system consider where solids will end up. It's no fun if it clogs up somewhere hard to clear.

I'm trying to figure out a system where the solids go from fish tank to biofilter- which would have plants in it- to rdwc with flowering plants in it, and back to the fish pond via a sump reservoir that would store excess water in the system.

I'm still working out how to set things up so that losing power at any single circuit breaker doesn't lead to a big-assed flood in my basement!

 

[stutter]

This is a relief. So, how do I more realistically size tasks? I'm thinking of using a 250 gallon tank outside, covered with a roof. Option B is an old hot tub, 300-500 gallons, with jet pump cooling already built in!

For heat dissipation, I could run a fountain, or similar... or, run the jet pump in the hot tub. I will never not need to shed excess heat, so the temps would not fall drastically in wintertime. That would mean a huge reduction in cooling needed for the whole operation, and still getting all the benefits of aquaponics in terms of raising fish and growing great plants.

If that isn't a win-win...

i would start buy figuring out how big your grow beds are going to be. once you know that double it for your fish tank. thats a general rule of thumb however you can get away with less my system as an example is 50l tank with a 50l grow bed. it works just fine. as for heat dissipation goes im not really in the know about that, just one more thing to add to the to learn list lol.

bigger tank = better heat sink though. it does mean bigger pumps etc though because in aquaponics you really have to circulate all that water through the biofilter at lest once every hr for the whole thing to work.

 

[stutter]

Really glad to see Aquaponics peaking the interest of folks around here. Can't wait to see more mmj growers utilizing this method. I could see a future fish breeding/mmj breeding AP garden project going on in the future haha. Thanks for bringing this to the farm Stut! And I agree, if anybody here wants to see some AAA+ dank being grown in Aquaponics, look up El Bandito's "Ganja growing using fish and other organic oddities". Fun stuff all through his grows!!

thanks 6. elbandito is the man and i cant give him enough praise. he has opened my mind to so many great ideas and innovations not to mention usually has them tried and tested before i ever get around to trying them. his thread is for sure one of those threads that is well worth the time and effort to sit down and read from start to finish.

 

[stutter]

I'm trying to figure out a system where the solids go from fish tank to biofilter- which would have plants in it- to rdwc with flowering plants in it, and back to the fish pond via a sump reservoir that would store excess water in the system.

I'm still working out how to set things up so that losing power at any single circuit breaker doesn't lead to a big-assed flood in my basement!

the bio filter doesnt need plants it simply has to house the bacteria. so im thinking it could pump through a biofilter to 2 seperate rooms with RDWC in each no dramas. there are some epic commercial DWC aquaponics grows out there, mostly lettuce and stuff but yu can easily learn from those and see how they do it.

 

[ttystikk]

I want to start with veg. Babies, then small plants, then bigger, and finally bloom ready girls, waiting for their flowering zone to open up. This gives me a decent progression from small to large and makes it easy to alter plant mass in the system. It also gives me the luxury of time, to cycle the system, find fish, etc etc.

If I had a 250 gallon tank, turning it over once an hour just means using a 250gph pump to circulate the water? I have a MUCH bigger pump than that... but then, a Flotec 1/2 hp unit is probably overkill, lol