anyone ever tried real organic hydroponics?

  • Thread starter kushtrees
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
stutter

stutter

325
93
Fish : Plants is an important ratio. You can always lean a bit heavy on the plant side and foliar feed some maxicrop if they're a bit deficient. If you lean the other way the fish will not like it. Note you're really balancing the fish metabolism against the plant metabolism - so the rate you feed the fish affects this as well as the number of fish, and the amount of light and vigor of the plants affects it as well as the number/size of vegetation.

Tank volume: Greater water volume provides more buffering capacity. Safer to have more water than you need than too little.

Biofilter: Extremely important. Am I to understand you didn't have one, Sputnik? If that's the case I'm not surprised your system never worked. The nitrification cycle is a core-component of aquaponics. Like the water volume, bigger is better as it will provide more stability. If it can't keep up the fish will poison themselves with their own ammonia.

you must have wrote this while iwas typing my epic lol

great info cctt and your spot on with everything sounds like you may be more experienced than i am with my one grow under my belt :)

as for balancing the fish and plant ratio i seem to have gotten lucky and nailed it first go but i was schooled that you check your nitrates in a perfectly balanced system nitrates will read just above 0ppm. 0ppm means that the plants are taking all the nitrates form the water. in a perfectly balanced system the plants remove all nitrates without themselves becoming hungry and i was told that if you aim just slightly above 0ppm then you can see that the plants are removing pretty much all the nitrates but you can also be sure that you are still providing enough nitrates for the plant where as if it read zero all the time then you would have no idea that your balance was off until the plant let you know. it seems to be working so far
 
stutter

stutter

325
93
Nitrification in the marine environment

In the marine environment, nitrogen is often the limiting nutrient, so the nitrogen cycle in the ocean is of particular interest.[11][12] The nitrification step of the cycle is of particular interest in the ocean because it creates nitrate, the primary form of nitrogen responsible for "new" production. Furthermore, as the ocean becomes enriched in anthropogenic CO2, the resulting decrease in pH could lead to decreasing rates of nitrification. Nitrification could potentially become a "bottleneck" in the nitrogen cycle.[13]
Nitrification, as stated above, is formally a two-step process; in the first step ammonia is oxidized to nitrite, and in the second step nitrite is oxidized to nitrate. Different microbes are responsible for each step in the marine environment. Several groups of ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) are known in the marine environment, including Nitrosomonas, Nitrospira, and Nitrosococcus. All contain the functional gene ammonia monooxygenase (AMO) which, as its name implies, is responsible for the oxidation of ammonia.[12] More recent metagenomic studies have revealed that some Crenarchaeote Archaea possess AMO. Crenarchaeote are abundant in the ocean and some species have a 200 times greater affinity for ammonia than AOB, leading researchers to challenge the previous belief that AOB are primarily responsible for nitrification in the ocean.[14] Furthermore, though nitrification is classically thought to be vertically separated from primary production because the oxidation of nitrogen by bacteria is inhibited by light, nitrification by AOA does not appear to be light inhibited, meaning that nitrification is occurring throughout the water column, challenging the classical definitions of "new" and "recycled" production.[14]
In the second step, nitrite is oxidized to nitrate. In the ocean, this step is not as well understood as the first, but the bacteria Nitrospina and Nitrobacter are known to carry out this step in the ocean.[14]

it works pretty much the same as this in our aquaponics systems
 
Texas Kid

Texas Kid

Some guy with a light
4,159
263
I was asked to build a completely true organic setup for a couple a few years back....they wanted a system without one single petro chemical component and full hydro...talk about a trick to pull off...clay lined sistern, terra cotta pots, split bamboo top feed and return lines....I had to use 1 pump in the entire process and that was the deal breaker..but they didn't have the topography on their land to do a total gravity feed with a return, feed to waste, no problem...movin water up hill is a trick without a pump
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
Thank you, Stutter! Walking through it like that really helps my understanding. I like the red wrigglers in there, too!

It sounds like I'll need a separate biofilter if I'm in RDWC, since the water by itself won't be enough to support the bennies.

Do I need to inoculate the system, or do the right bacteria just show up? What if a small additional amount of calcium nitrate found its way into the system, bringing triacontanol (nonfermented alfalfa) tea with it?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
you must have wrote this while iwas typing my epic lol

great info cctt and your spot on with everything sounds like you may be more experienced than i am with my one grow under my belt :)

as for balancing the fish and plant ratio i seem to have gotten lucky and nailed it first go but i was schooled that you check your nitrates in a perfectly balanced system nitrates will read just above 0ppm. 0ppm means that the plants are taking all the nitrates form the water. in a perfectly balanced system the plants remove all nitrates without themselves becoming hungry and i was told that if you aim just slightly above 0ppm then you can see that the plants are removing pretty much all the nitrates but you can also be sure that you are still providing enough nitrates for the plant where as if it read zero all the time then you would have no idea that your balance was off until the plant let you know. it seems to be working so far

How do you read nitrates?
 
stutter

stutter

325
93
I was asked to build a completely true organic setup for a couple a few years back....they wanted a system without one single petro chemical component and full hydro...talk about a trick to pull off...clay lined sistern, terra cotta pots, split bamboo top feed and return lines....I had to use 1 pump in the entire process and that was the deal breaker..but they didn't have the topography on their land to do a total gravity feed with a return, feed to waste, no problem...movin water up hill is a trick without a pump

sounds like an interesting project texas :)
 
stutter

stutter

325
93
Thank you, Stutter! Walking through it like that really helps my understanding. I like the red wrigglers in there, too!

It sounds like I'll need a separate biofilter if I'm in RDWC, since the water by itself won't be enough to support the bennies.

Do I need to inoculate the system, or do the right bacteria just show up? What if a small additional amount of calcium nitrate found its way into the system, bringing triacontanol (nonfermented alfalfa) tea with it?

yeah RDWC is doable it just means you run the water through a biofilter first before it gets to your DWC buckets. and again i would say constant recirc would be ideal. i have heard of people saying that the rootzone will house enough bacteria but i wouldnt be betting on it.

you dont need to innoculate the system the bacteria are naturally occurring. it does however take time. i think start up time is around 4 - 6 weeks before the system will run properly.
once you start getting fish waste (ammonia) nd it builds up to a certain level the bacteria will have something to feed on and they will begin to colonise. eventually the ammonia levels will drop as they are converted to nitrites then once they build up to a good level the next set of bacteria will colonise and convert it to nitrates. the whole process takes time. you can speed it up by adding water from an existing system which has the bacteria in it or from an aquarium etc but even so i doubt it would happen quicker than 4 weeks. the good news is over time the systems get stronger and stronger. my second grow should be much better than my first. im even told to expect flowering plants to do better as the nutrients in the system become more varied.

as for checking the water, you can buy simple drip kits that test for all 3. ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. this is really quite necessary as ppm doesnt really tell you much. where not really measuring salts in these systems, there is something else going on. i once heard someone describe it like this "its like trying to measure life itself"
 
stutter

stutter

325
93
i like the interest this is generating and would like to take a moment to thank "Elbandito" a grower on another forum that got me interested in this with his awesome aquaponics grows. that guy is a legend.

also just for tty i would suggest if your going to try aquaponics for weed dont jump in too far. i have seen a fair few failures. it came easy to me first round but i struck the right balance probably more by luck than anything and i definitely still have my other grow rooms to rely on this is just playing at the moment although with a little more work i can easily see it becoming my main grow method. im just saying dont put all your fish in one basket with aqua i guess. start something small on the side and work from there.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
NICE! I feel like I have a solid foundation upon which to build a system now! And some idea of what to do first and what to expect.

Fish first, let the bacteria start building up, then add some plants in a month or two.

Ideal water temps if I want to run koi, tilapia or bass? Am I hearing correctly that no chiller will be necessary or desirable?
 
stutter

stutter

325
93
im not too sure what temps those fish like but luke warm seems to be about right lol
yeah no chiller unless of course your heat gets over the top through summer. you dont want uncomfortable fish but root rot isnt an issue

koi are very hardy surviving in a wide temperature band and i think tillapia are too but i dont know for sure as i have only really studied up on the fish i was using etc.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
i like the interest this is generating and would like to take a moment to thank "Elbandito" a grower on another forum that got me interested in this with his awesome aquaponics grows. that guy is a legend.

also just for tty i would suggest if your going to try aquaponics for weed dont jump in too far. i have seen a fair few failures. it came easy to me first round but i struck the right balance probably more by luck than anything and i definitely still have my other grow rooms to rely on this is just playing at the moment although with a little more work i can easily see it becoming my main grow method. im just saying dont put all your fish in one basket with aqua i guess. start something small on the side and work from there.

That's exactly my plan; fish first, then biofilter, then start some house plants like bamboo and Thai peppers. The nitrogen analysis kit will be a central piece of my kit to find the balance point.

Eventually as the system proves itself I will run various stages of veg, small ones first, then adding stages as the system bootstraps itself...

By that time, I should have enough experience to perhaps try one zone of bloom.

Pie in the sky idea? Combine this with my cylinder grow and see what happens! The fact of the matter is that I'm already halfway there; I do NOT scrub or sterilize my RDWC between runs, nor clean it to sparkling perfection. I give them a quick blast of the hose, fill, flush, fill and run it!
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
im not too sure what temps those fish like but luke warm seems to be about right lol
yeah no chiller unless of course your heat gets over the top through summer. you dont want uncomfortable fish but root rot isnt an issue

koi are very hardy surviving in a wide temperature band and i think tillapia are too but i dont know for sure as i have only really studied up on the fish i was using etc.

Those are all warm water fish, like goldfish. I live in Colorado, run my op in the basement where the concrete floor never, ever gets above 72F, and usually stays in the 60s. Tank heater is more likely in the winter than chilling in the summer
 
stutter

stutter

325
93
sounds like you have an awesome plan there tty. if you do attempt it please share your results here with us. i would love to see it
 
Texas Kid

Texas Kid

Some guy with a light
4,159
263
Integrated Aquaculture and Hydroponics for the
Home Hobbyist or Classroom

The Aquaponic System combines fish culture and true hydroponic plant production into one integrated ecosystem. Easy to set up and maintain, the Aquaponic System can provide you with fresh fish and produce from a clean and healthy environment year-round. It operates so well because the fish are providing the nutrients for the plants, and the plants clean up the water to make it a better place for the fish to live in. This mutually beneficial arrangement is the same as what goes on in nature, but this one is completely within your control. Aquaponics is a great hobby system.

Growing fish like tilapia (also known as "Saint Peter's fish," "cherry snapper," "silverbacks," etc.) is easy and you can grow up to 100 lbs. in the Aquaponic System. An optional window in the tank makes learning fun because students can make observations as the fish interact with each other and the environment.
The 4' x 8' hydroponic growing bed is terrific for a kitchen herb cutting garden, dozens of heads of lettuce or other salad greens. Imagine, fresh herbs and salads from your very own hydroponic garden!
In the classroom, there's ample space for individual student projects that simply makes learning fun and exciting. Our instruction manual shows you how easy it is to grow with CropKing!

The Aquaponic System is made with durable, professional quality materials that are fully warranted. It comes complete and ready to set up with a 200-gallon fish tank, 4' x 8' hydroponic growing bed, an energy efficient, UL-listed air pump and hydroponic media. Optional equipment is available. The Aquaponic System package's convenient size fits right through a standard doorway. Fresh veggies and fish year-round
 
Aquapo54
Aquaponics kit 1000 litre 1
Aquaponics kit 1000 litreb
Texas Kid

Texas Kid

Some guy with a light
4,159
263
No, just research an inspiration....I looked at doin a setup using an above ground pool from Walmart on sale for $189.00 with the pump/filter all ready to go..roughly 4600 gallon tank and then cross pump feed to waste into a 1/2 acre vegetable garden
 
C

cctt

318
43
Nitrates/Nitrites/Ammonia can be tested with an aquarium test kit. Read up on fishless cycling - that's the process of building the appropriate bacteria before adding fish to your system by adding ammonia. It's commonly used by anyone starting a new aquarium.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
Nitrates/Nitrites/Ammonia can be tested with an aquarium test kit. Read up on fishless cycling - that's the process of building the appropriate bacteria before adding fish to your system by adding ammonia. It's commonly used by anyone starting a new aquarium.

What ammonia comes to mind as a good source for this? Might one just have a whiz?
 
Top Bottom