Anyone Tried The New Ceramic Lights?

[DrFever]

looking at the price will put you off a FERRARI pretty quickly until you look at what your getting( and i don't mean the hype) too!
look at the spectrum, research what real people are actually getting,out of them, look at the operating costs over the 3year life of the bulbs, and the quality produced.

hey most growers are not hitting big numbers? Running which setup? please keep it APPLES TO APPLES. BLI is not building CMH lights it is a different technology completely. you want more? How about lowering or eliminating your need for air conditioning? how about not needing a 9 foot or higher ceiling? How about getting what you pay for several times over during the life span of the bulb?
If that is not enough ammo to make you actually look at this as an alternative to the poor spectrum offered by most lights, that produce way more heat, that you have to manage or invest other dollars into managing,....and getting to replace your $100 plus bulbs twice a year to keep them optimal- over the three years your replacement bulb costs will give you a free light!

i guess i'll ask it this way, would you piece together a FERRARI, from available aftermarket parts and expect it to produce like the real thing?,.....if so 'ENZO wants to talk to you about buying a bridge he has.

Hey Dr. Fever i love your handle, and hope your not offended i certainly do not mean any harm just joking around a little,......While being deadly serious about what these lights can do.

On Saturday i will be doing a walk thru in a very large grow that has been converted to the BLI built systems,.......PLEASE help me to ask any and all questions of someone that actually uses them and crushes it. If you want to know anything please ask me here so i can ask the growers and the gentlemen at BLI face to face. I learn much more looking out for the interests of others than i could ever learn looking out only for my own.............So Ask me and i'll ask BOTH sources, and report back.

Although i am not knocking CMH down but as a stand alone fixture i am not seeing the numbers here is a copy n paste remember this is 630 watts of CMH and 20 plants to only get .67 GPW or 427 grams if a person used for instance 600 watt HPS and got them numbers it would equate to he fucked up big time
With that said people are suggesting lowering the need for as you say air conditioning ??? well i look at ventilation 101 if you plan to grow indoor then ventilation is part of the game anyways here is a copy n paste from another site
remember 630 watts of CMH used yields .67 terrible i think the average good grower could so better numbers with T5' Ho's here is a pic of a T5 ho grow 432 watts achieving well over 1 gram per watt in a sense destroyed CMH numbers

Thought I share some numbers from my multi kelvin runs. My CavemanOG pulled through better than expected. Considering the pH issue early on.
15 plants in 2 gallon grow bags with about 2x 315w per 2x4 tray got me 427g. Almost a full # IMO terrible numbers

and here is a T5 grow TBO 1.67 GPW and 2 plants :)

 

[UCMETOO]

Although i am not knocking CMH down but as a stand alone fixture i am not seeing the numbers here is a copy n paste remember this is 630 watts of CMH and 20 plants to only get .67 GPW or 427 grams if a person used for instance 600 watt HPS and got them numbers it would equate to he fucked up big time
With that said people are suggesting lowering the need for as you say air conditioning ??? well i look at ventilation 101 if you plan to grow indoor then ventilation is part of the game anyways here is a copy n paste from another site
remember 630 watts of CMH used yields .67 terrible i think the average good grower could so better numbers with T5' Ho's here is a pic of a T5 ho grow 432 watts achieving well over 1 gram per watt in a sense destroyed CMH numbers

Thought I share some numbers from my multi kelvin runs. My CavemanOG pulled through better than expected. Considering the pH issue early on.
15 plants in 2 gallon grow bags with about 2x 315w per 2x4 tray got me 427g. Almost a full # IMO terrible numbers

and here is a T5 grow TBO 1.67 GPW and 2 plants :)

to each his own,.... your picture looks great but some how i'm betting your not that interested in the gr. per watt issue. Thank you for the input. i have to ask are those 315's built by Sun Systems?
just so you get what i'm saying 5 lights @315 watts pulling down 4.5lbs. comes in at more than 2.5 gr per watt,...it is what it is. ( those 5 315's replaced 2 1000 watters and doubled the initial return)

 

[sdgrower]

That's more like 1.28g per watt. Still killing it though.

 

[UCMETOO]

That's more like 1.28g per watt. Still killing it though.

Sorry for the BS math it was a long day on the slopes and i was burnt,.....Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[pugliese63]

Another great and informative thread. Thanks especially to @Billyboat for sharing those pics. Where in the US can you pick up the D-Papillion lights? I've found one location but they're back ordered.

 

[Billyboat]

Dutch Garden Supplies

 

[DrFever]

Another great and informative thread. Thanks especially to @Billyboat for sharing those pics. Where in the US can you pick up the D-Papillion lights? I've found one location but they're back ordered.

Again epap's were designed as supplemental lighting not a stand alone lighting
here is a great video check it out

 

[Tnelz]

The ceramic tube allows the bulbs to burn at a higher temp, which is a lot closer to the suns light than hps or MH bulbs. Being able to operate at a higher temp means a boost in performance, quality of light, color shift, and spreadability.
Without going into too much science, the sun has a CRI (color rendering index) of 100.
LECs have a CRI of 80-96 with 80 being considered excellent! Hps around 22 and MH around 65-70.
While we see brightness in lumens, plants on the other hand see it in the amount energy based on a specific wavelength.
The wavelength is important because different wavelengths carry different amounts of energy. Shorter wavelengths (blues) carry more energy while longer wavelengths (reds) carry less.
That's what's cool about the ceramics is one bulb can be used for entire grow cycle and only needs changed once every 2 yrs.
The LECs use a more efficient square wavelength, allowing for a smoother firing rate. You can see the difference when you take a pic. The more lines you see in the pic the smoother and slower the firing rate.

Check homebrew420 brother. That's all they use and they straight kill it.

 

[DC105]

Cool man, thanks!

 

[UCMETOO]

Check homebrew420 brother. That's all they use and they straight kill it.

That's all i've been trying to say, STRAIGHT KILLING IT!

 

[CannaTech]

Again epap's were designed as supplemental lighting not a stand alone lighting
here is a great video check it out

Dude, your out of your element here.
No, Disrespect.
we are talking about D-paps not E-paps. Also, we are referring to using a Phillips 315W Elite Agro bulb in it which is no way comparable to DE 1000w's or to this video.

It is comparable to a 600W Bulb with half the consumption. As well as a more robust wavelength including much more of a UV spec which is good for tric production.

On another note guys
@MGRox I contacted Luxon and will have a quote for ballasts tomorrow morning so I can fill you all in. this will be without socket and fixture of any type, just the ballast alone. Check back for more info.

 

[UCMETOO]

Dude, your out of your element here.
No, Disrespect.
we are talking about D-paps not E-paps. Also, we are referring to using a Phillips 315W Elite Agro bulb in it which is no way comparable to DE 1000w's or to this video.

It is comparable to a 600W Bulb with half the consumption. As well as a more robust wavelength including much more of a UV spec which is good for tric production.

On another note guys
@MGRox I contacted Luxon and will have a quote for ballasts tomorrow morning so I can fill you all in. this will be without socket and fixture of any type, just the ballast alone. Check back for more info.

^^^ cool i want to know that too!

Glad i did not have to say that,....The Dr. seems to get all huffy at me if i correct anything.

 

[pugliese63]

Dutch Garden Supplies

Thank you. Will be giving them a call shortly.

 

[Greeneye04]

Thank you. Will be giving them a call shortly.

Call chlorophyll in denver and talk to lee. They are the distributor and will get you squared away. Just grabbed 4 double d paps and 24 more epaps.

 

[pugliese63]

Call chlorophyll in denver and talk to lee. They are the distributor and will get you squared away. Just grabbed 4 double d paps and 24 more epaps.

This is why I love the farm. Great info here. I'll be getting in-touch with Chlorophyll ASAP. I really want to make the switch before the summer gets here. This thread has been a huge help. Thanks again to all who have contributed.

 

[MGRox]

That is really wierd they are rated as universal position aren't they?

Ye even the specific bulb that was tested in the paper I mentioned is rated as "universal". I assume here it's because this phenomenon does not hurt the bulb or lower life; just alters CRI. Back when bulbs had to be a certain orientation, typically the bulb wouldn't stay lit in any other position than was marketed. Pretty much all bulbs now are rated as universal as they can stay lit now either way. Many HPS bulbs (since they have a long packet) will output less lumens in vertical than horizontal too (some mfg's will denote this) and still are rated universal.

If anyone want's, I guess, here's one paper that's pretty good on acoustic resonance and also compares ballast designs. dissertation
(page 99 for the vertical CMH experimentation)

@CannaTech Nice!! I'll be interested to see what the price is; hopefully it would be a bit cheaper.

 

[Herb Forester]

@MGRox was that study only done with only the small 39W cmh? He mentions "a long cylindrical ceramic arc tube (aspect ratio of about 5)", which is different than in the 315W models (looks closer to 1:1). I didn't read the rest of his book except 3.7.1 on Lamp Geometry, but does he look at the actual lamps we use?

I have some of the newest 930 Agro in both positions with no visible difference so far. Ballasts are 3rd gen Welthink LFSW plus sine wave. I don't have any of the "daylight" lamps LI offers with the Dpap, but FWIW seeing the two burning next to each other at the store, Billyboat's pic looks like a row of each color lamp.

 

[DrFever]

@MGRox was that study only done with only the small 39W cmh? He mentions "a long cylindrical ceramic arc tube (aspect ratio of about 5)", which is different than in the 315W models (looks closer to 1:1). I didn't read the rest of his book except 3.7.1 on Lamp Geometry, but does he look at the actual lamps we use?

I have some of the newest 930 Agro in both positions with no visible difference so far. Ballasts are 3rd gen Welthink LFSW plus sine wave. I don't have any of the "daylight" lamps LI offers with the Dpap, but FWIW seeing the two burning next to each other at the store, Billyboat's pic looks like a row of each color lamp.

would you care to share some pictures of lets say 2 week veg 4 week as well in flower veg and strain info ???
thanks
I still am a firm believer that CMH is pretty good for Suplimental lighting as for pap's well there again really designed as supplemental lighting as well ,, Would not a full spectrum LED do the same thing ??? many will say well it runs cooler my answer is nothing runs cooler especially when ballasts and eletricity is used temps are important for bulb life and performance tests have proven that in the past numerous times LED's do produce heat
More n more people are jumping away from what plants need and tend to jump to areas like spectrums, microbiology forgetting what this is all about the love of growing ??
lights are 1/4 of qaulity there are many other factors that come into play how dialed in a room is strain used
is many parts of the world that landrace strain does not get full sunlight so it adapts , Elevation lat ,
In my Humble opinion grow the best you can how you can and be happy you didn't get caught
There are reason why HPS is used in flower more so then MH , also as in nature and angle of sun and deflection of the poles being autumn . fall in nature there is less full spectrum wouldnt it make sense to mimic nature to the best you can //
is there any 930 agro shows that actually yielded 930 grams ???? would love to see it

 

[UCMETOO]

Ye even the specific bulb that was tested in the paper I mentioned is rated as "universal". I assume here it's because this phenomenon does not hurt the bulb or lower life; just alters CRI. Back when bulbs had to be a certain orientation, typically the bulb wouldn't stay lit in any other position than was marketed. Pretty much all bulbs now are rated as universal as they can stay lit now either way. Many HPS bulbs (since they have a long packet) will output less lumens in vertical than horizontal too (some mfg's will denote this) and still are rated universal.

If anyone want's, I guess, here's one paper that's pretty good on acoustic resonance and also compares ballast designs. dissertation
(page 99 for the vertical CMH experimentation)

@CannaTech Nice!! I'll be interested to see what the price is; hopefully it would be a bit cheaper.

YOU FUCKING ROCK!!!!!! Thank you for the directions to Manna, thats exactly what i wanted to read!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UCMETOO]

would you care to share some pictures of lets say 2 week veg 4 week as well in flower veg and strain info ???
thanks
I still am a firm believer that CMH is pretty good for Suplimental lighting as for pap's well there again really designed as supplemental lighting as well ,, Would not a full spectrum LED do the same thing ??? many will say well it runs cooler my answer is nothing runs cooler especially when ballasts and eletricity is used temps are important for bulb life and performance tests have proven that in the past numerous times LED's do produce heat
More n more people are jumping away from what plants need and tend to jump to areas like spectrums, microbiology forgetting what this is all about the love of growing ??
lights are 1/4 of qaulity there are many other factors that come into play how dialed in a room is strain used
is many parts of the world that landrace strain does not get full sunlight so it adapts , Elevation lat ,
In my Humble opinion grow the best you can how you can and be happy you didn't get caught
There are reason why HPS is used in flower more so then MH , also as in nature and angle of sun and deflection of the poles being autumn . fall in nature there is less full spectrum wouldnt it make sense to mimic nature to the best you can //
is there any 930 agro shows that actually yielded 930 grams ???? would love to see it

Seems like you sure make a lot of assertions for some one with so many questions,.........and thanks for ignoring @fishwhistle's correction of your obvious gaff (really classy and mature). I hope you learn what you want to know, and don't fuck up someone else's learning curve with your point of view and ramblings. Please don't be offended but i'm going to block your content till you get it together. Peace and i hope you find what your looking for.