Aqua’s Hydro systems meet SPIDERFARMER SE 7000

[Aqua Man]

I agree a chiller would be the easiest way of controlling water temp. Could you make a manual chiller with an ice chest, coiled copper water line and some dry ice? You'd have to replace the ice every few days but maybe you could re-route the CO2 into the tent and get more bang for your buck? Not sure if the CO2 capture would be worth it but something to consider if you're trying to lower temp on the cheap.

I designed and fabricated an industrial chiller for a warehouse grow on the cheap using a beer chiller concept. Found a floor model top loading chest freezer on mark down and emptied the inside of all the baskets and stuff. Ran a coil of 1/2" copper fridge water line from one end to the other by poking a hole near the top edge on each side and filled 3/4 of the way up with water so that the coils were bathed in the water. Temperature control came from freezer temp control located on outside of freezer. Set it so it cooled the water in it to a temp that yielded approximately 66* feed solution at output. By the time the feed solution reached the pots water temp rose to around 69* - 73* depending on how far the pot was from the distribution head.

Inside casing of freezer was all plastic and watertight. It even had a drain so I could drain out water if it got weird but since it was always cold, we never had to change it out. A commercial chiller of the same size would have cost $5,000+. My guerilla chiller cost $600 and could supply the entire warehouse with temperature-controlled water. Cost around $30 a year to run it being that it was an Energy Star rated appliance.

Thought an out of the box idea might be able to spark something more conducive to the size of your grow.

I can simply cut the floor out around the sites and res and let it rest on the concrete but i want to see how this goes as long as they are doing well.

This grow is about learning while maintaining good growth. Because we have managed to drastically change one variable all the traditional ideals will also be impacted and we need to gather as much evidence and data on this as we can… even simple observation is important.

you will likely see me do some very unorthodox things here. Not because i dont have the ability to adjust but because i need to get some basic parameters to work with in the future. So getting an idea of limitations is important to knowing where and what to look at

 

[Moe.Red]

i dont but i know someone who will likely be able to add it to the controller syste cough cough @Moe.Red

The problem with the chiller settings is they are pushbutton and local, no way to hack into that. Could make the software to tell you to drop the chiller by X on a calendar, but I don't see controlling it directly unless I am missing something.

Things that have an iR remote, have a bus built in like lots of LED lights, things like that I can hack. Self contained units like chillers would be a ton of work for very little benefit, and probably would require surgery on your chiller to make it work, I doubt most growers would do that. Also add that we are not just talking about 1 chiller, there are several out there.

Now on the data gathering side - could we make measurements if you control the chiller with your fingers? Yup.

 

[Dr.Green55]

So Idk if what im thinking is accurate but im wondering if lowering res temps slowly during flowering would cause stunted growth up top? Like in my head the plant is slowing its growth with the temps thus causing the buds to seal over sooner than later. Like im sure if someone started at 66 and increased to the temps your running, they would see nothing but growth increasing up top. But when the opposite happens, couldn't it stunt them up there? I really dont know and have just been thinking about it for months now. I'd like to get a water temp controller. My air pump drops my res temps to whatecer my lung room temp is. . hince why I keep it set at 72f lol. . my res temps stay pretty consistent to my eye. . but only a probe could actually tell me. Know of any that are attached to a controller? I can just not insulate it and have the lights heat it and the controller cool it with airpump? Anyways. . just pondering

I know there is studies out there on different types of flowering plant, vegetables plants and fruit tree, etc in veg plants when there younger smaller etc they do like a warmer water as the plant grows and gets into flower they actually prefer a cooler water, the temp of the water though is kinda dictated by the air temp, hot or cooler air temps has an effect on what water temps should be. there is one study that shows tomato plants grown in 15C water far out produced plants grown in 25C water. by adding an additive. I know this translated to cannabis and the big guys are study it, but everything they do is tied up with NDA's and its not getting out. look at some of the very large green houses down south, their not spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to put in, inground chillers in to keep the roots at 68 to 70 for nothing

 

[Cashmeh]

I know there is studies out there on different types of flowering plant, vegetables plants and fruit tree, etc in veg plants when there younger smaller etc they do like a warmer water as the plant grows and gets into flower they actually prefer a cooler water, the temp of the water though is kinda dictated by the air temp, hot or cooler air temps has an effect on what water temps should be. there is one study that shows tomato plants grown in 15C water far out produced plants grown in 25C water. by adding an additive. I know this translated to cannabis and the big guys are study it, but everything they do is tied up with NDA's and its not getting out. look at some of the very large green houses down south, their not spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to put in, inground chillers in to keep the roots at 68 to 70 for nothing

Too many variables to suggest they do not waste money, or couldnt do it differently, especially when theres no public data? Like peer reviewed published studies are what can be discussed and criticized. Im just confused perhaps. Do the studies show that keeping the temps colder improve everything or just a few things? Does it help prevent bacteria growth, even when you want it to grow? Were the studies done with and without bacteria? To suggest they are not wasting as much money as any other large company is silly. You can convert any chilled water aquaponics system into a warm one without corrosives, farmers do it every day. Im not saying they are doing it for 0 reasons. Im just wanting to understand those reasons better, without trusting what people say ;) So 3 things, 1 Do you want to discourage or promote Microbial growth in the rootzone, if so, how and why? 2 If the goal is to increase DO in the water with cold temps, yet there are additives, was this done with warmer temps, with larger then minimum microbes present at the rootzone, aka live vs sterile. 3 Do most cannabis plants perfer warmer or cooler water temps, as in regards to vegging growth rates, then flowering rates, of course, compared to large and small microbial colonies.
Like im reading that tomato trial https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11539775/ and idk it just seems to lack any usefull info on how they came to that conclusion. Reminds me of some other NIH studies.
I guess even if if we find out that none of it matters, that it all grows the same, I would say there are always multiple ways to do something. Innovation has always been making us do things differently for good reasons. In this world it seems like we do whats most affordable, not whats best anyways.

 

[Aqua Man]

Too many variables to suggest they do not waste money, or couldnt do it differently, especially when theres no public data? Like peer reviewed published studies are what can be discussed and criticized. Im just confused perhaps. Do the studies show that keeping the temps colder improve everything or just a few things? Does it help prevent bacteria growth, even when you want it to grow? Were the studies done with and without bacteria? To suggest they are not wasting as much money as any other large company is silly. You can convert any chilled water aquaponics system into a warm one without corrosives, farmers do it every day. Im not saying they are doing it for 0 reasons. Im just wanting to understand those reasons better, without trusting what people say ;) So 3 things, 1 Do you want to discourage or promote Microbial growth in the rootzone, if so, how and why? 2 If the goal is to increase DO in the water with cold temps, yet there are additives, was this done with warmer temps, with larger then minimum microbes present at the rootzone, aka live vs sterile. 3 Do most cannabis plants perfer warmer or cooler water temps, as in regards to vegging growth rates, then flowering rates, of course, compared to large and small microbial colonies.
Like im reading that tomato trial https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11539775/ and idk it just seems to lack any usefull info on how they came to that conclusion. Reminds me of some other NIH studies.
I guess even if if we find out that none of it matters, that it all grows the same, I would say there are always multiple ways to do something. Innovation has always been making us do things differently for good reasons. In this world it seems like we do whats most affordable, not whats best anyways.

Dude all these answers are out there in many different studies but they only pertain to the conditions the studies are done in….all you need to do is spend time looking for them and reading them.

there is nothing as simple as this or that… if thats what your looking for. Thinking linearly is what will prevent you from understanding the big picture. Start looking dynamically at the relationships and functions of the why, what, where and when.

There is no single answer to your questions and that’s something we just have to accept in order to further our knowledge… if it was that simple we would already all have the answers

 

[Aqua Man]

For eg. Quantum physics is involved… how many ppl on earth can give you the answer to all the questions of quantum physics? There isnt a single person on earth.

what if i told you that plant photosynthesis involves quantum physic where a neutron is not in one place but all places as it travels through the chloroplasts? This is why photosynthesis is almost 100% efficient.

well ask MIT because evidence suggests that is the case after they scoffed at the idea.

There are just so many things at play and so many more things at play then we even understand.

 

[SchwiftyGrower]

For eg. Quantum physics is involved… how many ppl on earth can give you the answer to all the questions of quantum physics? There isnt a single person on earth.

what if i told you that plant photosynthesis involves quantum physic where a neutron is not in one place but all places as it travels through the chloroplasts? This is why photosynthesis is almost 100% efficient.

well ask MIT because evidence suggests that is the case after they scoffed at the idea.

There are just so many things at play and so many more things at play then we even understand.

This will be on my mind in my next mushroom trip

 

[Mikedin]

Ok now supper.View attachment 1262904

Should stand those 2x3’s on end on the bottom and make them like baby joists so you can insulate the floor then lay plywood down,

Or, raise the floor up about 6” (2x6’s on end and run floor joists across so you can insulate and run some ductwork to all 4 walls, have the ductwork run out of the tent to a inline fan (spider farmer or whatever type) so you have fresh airflow being pumped in to all corners of the tent evenly then put heat registers in the floor, then you have constant airflow with adjustable registers , you wouldn’t even have to start over, build an exact sized box on the floor and lift the existing box on top of it, remember I warned ya it would be easier now than later haha

Oh god now I’m thinking about wall boxes with additional low powered bar LED’s for side lighting through the whole tent lol

Shit now I gotta build my own grow box haha come on 15 years of general construction don’t fail me now haha

I can see the automatic watering from here lol this is why my wife dosent let me build things, I go wayyyy overboard with everything lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Should stand those 2x3’s on end on the bottom and make them like baby joists so you can insulate the floor then lay plywood down,

Or, raise the floor up about 6” (2x6’s on end and run floor joists across so you can insulate and run some ductwork to all 4 walls, have the ductwork run out of the tent to a inline fan (spider farmer or whatever type) so you have fresh airflow being pumped in to all corners of the tent evenly then put heat registers in the floor, then you have constant airflow with adjustable registers , you wouldn’t even have to start over, build an exact sized box on the floor and lift the existing box on top of it, remember I warned ya it would be easier now than later haha

Oh god now I’m thinking about wall boxes with additional low powered bar LED’s for side lighting through the whole tent lol

Shit now I gotta build my own grow box haha come on 15 years of general construction don’t fail me now haha

I can see the automatic watering from here lol this is why my wife dosent let me build things, I go wayyyy overboard with everything lol

Floor is insulated… this is a sealed room and i 100% framed this like a moron lol but its only for 1 grow then im moving again. Will build a proper room once im settled back in as i will be applying for my license.

That will allow me a much better capability to test our grow systems and capture a lot more data at one time.

Lmao a man after my own heart… i tend to way overdo and over think everything in life… curse and a blessing. If you take on this build please don’t forget to tag me. i could probably follow along and pick up some pointers. Although i plan on using different materials for a more permanent room. Suck as the insulated paneling used for commercial freezers and fridges

 

[Aqua Man]

Off to the gym i may not look like Mr.Momoa but hell if im not gonna try to look like a mini me version minus the hair and good looks

 

[Mikedin]

Floor is insulated… this is a sealed room and i 100% framed this like a moron lol but its only for 1 grow then im moving again. Will build a proper room once im settled back in as i will be applying for my license.

That will allow me a much better capability to test our grow systems and capture a lot more data at one time.

Lmao a man after my own heart… i tend to way overdo and over think everything in life… curse and a blessing. If you take on this build please don’t forget to tag me. i could probably follow along and pick up some pointers. Although i plan on using different materials for a more permanent room. Suck as the insulated paneling used for commercial freezers and fridges

I hear ya haha, my 4x8 tent was just so I could get things going, I am massively underpowered with the 2x 1500w blurples they did well for my fist grow but they need an upgrade, just started my 2nd run (I tagged you) had to do a quick emergency Gorilla glue replacement seed for a master OG that didn’t sprout but that’s fine lol this is almost all of what my last run netted

I just moved my tent but am currently venting into the lung room, I plan to change this and use the excess heat from the tent to heat my downstairs bedroom I use for midnight shifts (it’s an adjacent wall) and we run the wood stove upstairs in the winter, we only run the basement one of the outside temps are below -10f windchill, fairly rare mabye like 2 weeks out of all last winter so it stays around 60f in the basement this is the exact spot I plan to build the final grow room so I already installed a drier vent under the deck outside and that is directly above the tent, or I can vent into the house to conserve heat in the winter, I plan to incorporate both of these into the final grow room

The 4x8 tent will be reused to grow vegetables in the house over winter as well as probably keeping a mother or starting seedling or clones in the future.

What is the exterior wall design for this? MR drywall or just leaving it with the insulation?

You could easily do the fan controllers etc built into the outside walls or even tv monitors with cameras inside so you can see the whole interior without even opening the doors (some have insane zoom on them could probably check trichs from your smoke spot haha)

 

[Aqua Man]

I hear ya haha, my 4x8 tent was just so I could get things going, I am massively underpowered with the 2x 1500w blurples they did well for my fist grow but they need an upgrade, just started my 2nd run (I tagged you) had to do a quick emergency Gorilla glue replacement seed for a master OG that didn’t sprout but that’s fine lol this is almost all of what my last run netted

I just moved my tent but am currently venting into the lung room, I plan to change this and use the excess heat from the tent to heat my downstairs bedroom I use for midnight shifts (it’s an adjacent wall) and we run the wood stove upstairs in the winter, we only run the basement one of the outside temps are below -10f windchill, fairly rare mabye like 2 weeks out of all last winter so it stays around 60f in the basement this is the exact spot I plan to build the final grow room so I already installed a drier vent under the deck outside and that is directly above the tent, or I can vent into the house to conserve heat in the winter, I plan to incorporate both of these into the final grow room

The 4x8 tent will be reused to grow vegetables in the house over winter as well as probably keeping a mother or starting seedling or clones in the future.

What is the exterior wall design for this? MR drywall or just leaving it with the insulation?

You could easily do the fan controllers etc built into the outside walls or even tv monitors with cameras inside so you can see the whole interior without even opening the doors (some have insane zoom on them could probably check trichs from your smoke spot haha)

Yup i have everything on controllers including co2. should have the DO soon. but its a sealed room so wvwr must be controlled

 

[tobh]

Too many variables to suggest they do not waste money, or couldnt do it differently, especially when theres no public data? Like peer reviewed published studies are what can be discussed and criticized. Im just confused perhaps. Do the studies show that keeping the temps colder improve everything or just a few things? Does it help prevent bacteria growth, even when you want it to grow? Were the studies done with and without bacteria? To suggest they are not wasting as much money as any other large company is silly. You can convert any chilled water aquaponics system into a warm one without corrosives, farmers do it every day. Im not saying they are doing it for 0 reasons. Im just wanting to understand those reasons better, without trusting what people say ;) So 3 things, 1 Do you want to discourage or promote Microbial growth in the rootzone, if so, how and why? 2 If the goal is to increase DO in the water with cold temps, yet there are additives, was this done with warmer temps, with larger then minimum microbes present at the rootzone, aka live vs sterile. 3 Do most cannabis plants perfer warmer or cooler water temps, as in regards to vegging growth rates, then flowering rates, of course, compared to large and small microbial colonies.
Like im reading that tomato trial https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11539775/ and idk it just seems to lack any usefull info on how they came to that conclusion. Reminds me of some other NIH studies.
I guess even if if we find out that none of it matters, that it all grows the same, I would say there are always multiple ways to do something. Innovation has always been making us do things differently for good reasons. In this world it seems like we do whats most affordable, not whats best anyways.

that's been my experience reading most commercial horticultural studies as well. They're full of superfluous information without providing any hard data or even explicit instruction on how to replicate their results. Anything that's actually published in reputable journals is of a biological level and hardly applicable to commercial or hobbyist scale growers due to the severe environmental controls they implement. Even further, most studies are so hyper focused on one particular parameter and they only use one specific plant variety in the study so overall the study excludes 90% of other methods and plant varieties, thereby being marginally useful. Hell, if anything it's simple anecdotal information to be used in diagnostics later on.

What Aman and Moe are doing may or may not end up being similar. I'm super curious to see the resulting data from this run and wouldn't mind tearing into it once it's all compiled, and if they're willing to see if published in public for thorough scrutiny. Not only to keep them honest, but to keep the rest of us honest too and eliminate bias. The best innovations happen in volatile open forums. That's how people enact change.

 

[Aqua Man]

that's been my experience reading most commercial horticultural studies as well. They're full of superfluous information without providing any hard data or even explicit instruction on how to replicate their results. Anything that's actually published in reputable journals is of a biological level and hardly applicable to commercial or hobbyist scale growers due to the severe environmental controls they implement. Even further, most studies are so hyper focused on one particular parameter and they only use one specific plant variety in the study so overall the study excludes 90% of other methods and plant varieties, thereby being marginally useful. Hell, if anything it's simple anecdotal information to be used in diagnostics later on.

What Aman and Moe are doing may or may not end up being similar. I'm super curious to see the resulting data from this run and wouldn't mind tearing into it once it's all compiled, and if they're willing to see if published in public for thorough scrutiny. Not only to keep them honest, but to keep the rest of us honest too and eliminate bias. The best innovations happen in volatile open forums. That's how people enact change.

Absolutely all for peer review but first we need actual data… thats going to be a process that takes time. Then we need to find credible ppl willing to do peer reviews without funding preferably.

there are some studies on this and thats how i came to stumble on the idea. Far and few between and most are older.

baby steps and focus on the task at hand is where my priorities are laying right now.

 

[tobh]

find credible ppl willing to do peer reviews without funding preferably.

That's gonna be the trick right there. If funding gets involved, the research will not hold the value it could, and will effectively being tainted. Just like US politics -- PACs come into play, and it doesn't matter what the layman or experts say, the money talks, and no one believes the mouth that's in front of it.

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok today is 9 days in the system growth is starting to pick up.

Day1

day 9

 

[Mikedin]

Looking awesome!

 

[Aqua Man]

Looking awesome!

Thanks man… they are a bit stressed from the lo humidity but ill get that in check tomorrow Not that they are starting to pick up

 

[Moe.Red]

Now that their toes are wet they will take off.

This is kinda cool.

 

[Aqua Man]

Now that their toes are wet they will take off.

This is kinda cool.

View attachment 1275320

Looking sweet man…. af