Ballin' On a Budget- THE RECIPE

  • Thread starter BillFarthing
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
8,647
313
Calcium is rarely strain dependent. Pure sativas don't like a heavy EC. If you have a Kush for example that is a heavy feeder, just raise your base fertilizer a bit. Cal-Mag is a band-aid to sell you more stuff at the hydro store.

If your plants are burning, always water until 10-25% runoff. Test your pH going into the feed and coming out to diagnose any problems.

Length of flush depends on the CEC of your growing medium. You can flush rockwool for a couple irrigations and get a nice fade. Coco, maybe a week and a half or two. Heavily amended soil gives a nice fade when the plant is done.
I've been curious what your position is on flushing. Thanks for sharing that, I fully agree.
Something ill add that I've noticed in a couple crops using peat based media, is if I wait too long to begin the flush, the uptake of water into the plant slows down so much at the end that getting a good fade can be difficult.
Now I keep a very close eye on water uptake in weeks 7 and 8 to get a feel for when to switch to plain water. As soon as she starts slowing down drinking I make the switch. Mind you I use rockwool now but I use the same monitoring process, and usually flush for about 5-7 days. Bit longer than necessary for wool, but not harmful.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

Supporter
479
93
I've been curious what your position is on flushing. Thanks for sharing that, I fully agree.
Something ill add that I've noticed in a couple crops using peat based media, is if I wait too long to begin the flush, the uptake of water into the plant slows down so much at the end that getting a good fade can be difficult.
Now I keep a very close eye on water uptake in weeks 7 and 8 to get a feel for when to switch to plain water. As soon as she starts slowing down drinking I make the switch. Mind you I use rockwool now but I use the same monitoring process, and usually flush for about 5-7 days. Bit longer than necessary for wool, but not harmful.
That's a good observation.

I personally use an isotonic solution for flushing. Some people use homemade Clearex. Mr. Fulvic also works to maintain osmotic pressure when flushing. It gives more residual weight, terpenes and better shelf life as a perishable product.

For more information:
 
Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
Supporter
4,480
263
I love fertilizer. I work with big grows down to friends that have a single 400w light. I recommend the same thing to each and every one of them. It is used start to finish, so there's no following confusing feed schedules. A buddy of mine started calling this "The Recipe" because it is cheap, simple and gives some amazing quality flower.

It consists of:
1) Silica- I always recommend soluble silica like PowerSi or Grow Genius. If you are in a pinch, you can use potassium silicate, but you have to keep an eye on the pH.
2) Jacks Classic Hydro, Calcium Nitrate and epsom salt- This is your base fertilizer. It is 3 grams Jack's, 2 grams calcium nitrate, 1 gram epsom salt per gallon
3) Fulvic Acid- This helps prevent pH problems and plant stress and gives organic taste and smell. There's lots of watered down additives out there, but I recommend Mr. Fulvic because it is a concentrate and has fulvic, amino and organic acids.

The quality and yields are phenomenal. Depending on what quantities you buy, it can be $0.06-$0.10/gallon.

View attachment 1129079
Agreed, and excellent controls over the grow.

Mine's a modified version of your Bill. I use Masterblend 4-18-38, magnesium sulfate (dollar store brand), calcium nitrate and also use calcium hydroxide (pickling lime) or potassium hydroxide for adjusting pH, depending on needs, and adjusting calcium/nitrate ratio's though flowering phase. I also use azomite, or silicon dioxide (desiccant) as my form of silicon.

In addition to soluble forms of fluvics and insoluble humic, I ferment and grow my own lactobacillus, and other carbon loving organisms with sugars that harden, and enhance terpene production during flower.

For flushes, I alternate between microbes, humics/fluvics and/or small amounts of Yukka extract.
 
Last edited:
Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
Supporter
4,480
263
Use Mr. Fulvic from start-to finish at 1ml/gallon drench. In flush, it prevents osmostic pressure and the chelated minerals build brix.

Silica, use in veg and transition. There is discussion whether silica should be used in flower, although customers have liked rock hard nugs as a trend again recently since PGR's have always been bad news.

Mr. Fulvic just got approved in Canada. If you can't get Mr. Fulvic, FulvicXCell has a water extracted (versus hydroxide extracted) fulvic of (NOT QUITE) comparable quality.
Do you measure or track brix whatsoever? Perhaps there is a useful method of tracking this information for our application? I've actually been trying measure it by inspecting substrate composition, smell, and appearance. It's a very crude assessment.

Sugars I currently use;
Sucrose (table sugar)
Maltose
Dextrose
Glucose
Trehalose (bug sugar)
d ribose (pentose phosphate pathway)
 
Last edited:
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
8,647
313
That's a good observation.

I personally use an isotonic solution for flushing. Some people use homemade Clearex. Mr. Fulvic also works to maintain osmotic pressure when flushing. It gives more residual weight, terpenes and better shelf life as a perishable product.

For more information:
Yeah, I think I will give that a try next crop too.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
8,647
313
Gotcha. I do not use cal-mag since jacks has them both in there, it’s a matter of knowing what, how and when to adjust I need to learn more about firsthand to get it down a little better. I was just going to use Capulators formula as a base and adjust from there. Full strength was great till I got to flower then it started getting funky. On me. All still learning
Something to consider is switching to 12/12 wuthout increasing light intensity, decreases your DLI or daily light Interval, which in turn decreases the need for feed. It's why you will commonly see an ec spike a couple weeks into flower if you don't increase light levels or back off on nutrients.
 
euphoria526

euphoria526

363
63
Something to consider is switching to 12/12 wuthout increasing light intensity, decreases your DLI or daily light Interval, which in turn decreases the need for feed. It's why you will commonly see an ec spike a couple weeks into flower if you don't increase light levels or back off on nutrients.
Then would it be better to go to %100 on lights before flipping? Or turn it up later in flower.
for reference; I’m using a 330w led about 2.5 ft above canopy any from seedling through veg I keep at %50 dimmed and turn it up gradually after the first 2 weeks of flower
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
8,647
313
Then would it be better to go to %100 on lights before flipping? Or turn it up later in flower.
for reference; I’m using a 330w led about 2.5 ft above canopy any from seedling through veg I keep at %50 dimmed and turn it up gradually after the first 2 weeks of flower
What I would do is increase the light by 20% or so and simultaneously decrease food by about the same, the day you flip., then slowly increase light and food to max by the end of stretch.
 
SeymourGreen

SeymourGreen

68
18
Hello @BillFarthing. I was just wondering what you would consider to high P? It was recommended to me to run P in the 60 ppm range in DTW coco. What are your thoughts?
 
euphoria526

euphoria526

363
63
What I would do is increase the light by 20% or so and simultaneously decrease food by about the same, the day you flip., then slowly increase light and food to max by the end of stretch.
I’ll have to try that next run
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
8,647
313
Calcium needs are highest at transition. Try metalosate calcium, calcium EDTA or acetate foliar or drench. Reducing feed when they have unique needs at a time like flip is only going to stunt the plants.
Good point, I'm not sure a 20% reduction would hurt much as I almost always find a week or two after flip I get buildup and need more runoff than usual, and had always attributed that to the drop in DLI reducing demand. But ill be happy to learn I'm wrong.
I do supplement my water with Calcium silicate though to a base level, so maybe that's why I haven't noticed problems. Or maybe I've had problems and just haven't noticed. I'll admit after growing for 20 plus years I'm still figuring this shit out as I go.
 
zebrausa

zebrausa

93
33
I love fertilizer. I work with big grows down to friends that have a single 400w light. I recommend the same thing to each and every one of them. It is used start to finish, so there's no following confusing feed schedules. A buddy of mine started calling this "The Recipe" because it is cheap, simple and gives some amazing quality flower.

It consists of:
1) Silica- I always recommend soluble silica like PowerSi or Grow Genius. If you are in a pinch, you can use potassium silicate, but you have to keep an eye on the pH.
2) Jacks Classic Hydro, Calcium Nitrate and epsom salt- This is your base fertilizer. It is 3 grams Jack's, 2 grams calcium nitrate, 1 gram epsom salt per gallon
3) Fulvic Acid- This helps prevent pH problems and plant stress and gives organic taste and smell. There's lots of watered down additives out there, but I recommend Mr. Fulvic because it is a concentrate and has fulvic, amino and organic acids.

The quality and yields are phenomenal. Depending on what quantities you buy, it can be $0.06-$0.10/gallon.

View attachment 1129079
I use master blend for everything. I add cal/mag, and silicon. It's a complete salt fertilizer and can easily be adjusted for flowering.
 
PizzaBob

PizzaBob

165
43
I use master blend for everything. I add cal/mag, and silicon. It's a complete salt fertilizer and can easily be adjusted for flowering.
Isn’t that just a Jack’s knock off (their hydro blend) or is it other way around. How is it different and/or better or is it cheaper than jacks 321? I see they have endless blends. Plus what about Epsom salts and cal/nit that they also recommend. And what about the other key components like fulvic and kelp and what silicate are you using? Are you using the hydro or tomato blend? The hydro blend looks like the same ratio as Jacks. Sorry to ask all the questions but just trying to get away from buying water and BS from the hydro stores. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

Supporter
479
93
How is it different and/or better or is it cheaper than jacks 321? I see they have endless blends. Plus what about Epsom salts and cal/nit that they also recommend. And what about the other key components like fulvic and kelp and what silicate are you using? Are you using the hydro or tomato blend? The hydro blend looks like the same ratio as Jacks. Sorry to ask all the questions but just trying to get away from buying water and BS from the hydro stores. Thanks!
Master Blend is just another cheap complete hydroponic salt with the addition of cal nit. They can virtually be used identically. I would suggest adding 1g/gallon epsom salt if you are sun-grown, LED or CMH.

Grow Genius and PowerSi are great soluble silicas that won't jack up your pH like potassium silicate. Cheap kelp may have high sodium and add unbalanced micros. Fulvic chelates existing micros. Mr. Fulvic in particular has fulvic, amino and organic acids. When I'm too lazy to mix salts, I just use soluble silica, Jacks/MB, Cal Nit, epsom salt and Mr. Fulvic.
 
radmobile

radmobile

87
18
Does anyone else have consistent calcium burn using this recipe? Any time I try to feed them, they end up with leaves toasted.
I flushed this one for 2 weeks, started with 1/2 dose and then full - looks like this now:
Image

I’ve been told I can’t really trust my out-ppm readings because using soil in pots still holds a lot of salt matter at the bad jacking up the numbers. I don’t understand how this is working so well for others.
Jacks Part A: (Veg: 3) (Flower: 3.6)
Jack’s Calnit: (Veg: 2) (Flower: 2.4)
Epsom Salt: (Veg: 1) (Flower: 1.2)

stopped using Silica and then stopped using Mr. Fulvic all trying to determine the issue.
I use FoxFarms Happy Frog soil with nothing but ph’d (6.6) for three weeks when I pot or repot in it. Most times I try to repot when the plant is drinking up the water fast (like in a single day). This way I don’t have to add any food because of the transplant. But as soon as I introduce nutrients, the plants begin to burn. I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong here…..
Any suggestions?
 
brotherfrombelgium

brotherfrombelgium

279
63
Looks like Potassium(K) deficiency.

Looks like it's not enjoying current nutes.

Try a complete N-P-K fertilizer.
,
You can add potassium directly by using soluble potash.

All the best with it!

I would flush it, and if you add potash make sure to adjust Ph for it will raise your Ph, then once good then add it to your medium.
 
PizzaBob

PizzaBob

165
43
Does anyone else have consistent calcium burn using this recipe? Any time I try to feed them, they end up with leaves toasted.
I flushed this one for 2 weeks, started with 1/2 dose and then full - looks like this now:
View attachment 1178372
I’ve been told I can’t really trust my out-ppm readings because using soil in pots still holds a lot of salt matter at the bad jacking up the numbers. I don’t understand how this is working so well for others.
Jacks Part A: (Veg: 3) (Flower: 3.6)
Jack’s Calnit: (Veg: 2) (Flower: 2.4)
Epsom Salt: (Veg: 1) (Flower: 1.2)

stopped using Silica and then stopped using Mr. Fulvic all trying to determine the issue.
I use FoxFarms Happy Frog soil with nothing but ph’d (6.6) for three weeks when I pot or repot in it. Most times I try to repot when the plant is drinking up the water fast (like in a single day). This way I don’t have to add any food because of the transplant. But as soon as I introduce nutrients, the plants begin to burn. I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong here…..
Any suggestions?
What’s the pH in and out? And what’s the mixing order and process?
 
Frankster

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.
Supporter
4,480
263
That's a good observation.

I personally use an isotonic solution for flushing. Some people use homemade Clearex. Mr. Fulvic also works to maintain osmotic pressure when flushing. It gives more residual weight, terpenes and better shelf life as a perishable product.

For more information:
Agreed, hypertonic or hypotonic solutions present a problem toward the end. Isotonic solutions are going to create some legs for the plant at the end. I've been taking a slightly different route on this; sugars mixed with Yukka extract and dissolved humics/fluvics. Trying to offer up some additional carbon cycles when it needs it most.

The yukka I use approx 1/4 tsp per gallon, plus humics/fluvics at equal proportions, upwards of 2x the dose, catalyzing remaining fertilizers; then concentrate on trace amounts of sugar as food for microbes, for scrounging any remaining nutrient. This is a work in progress, but it seems effective. All this is no doubt done throughout my grow cycles, but I double down at the end.

I think the real key here is creating access to whatever last bits are locked out in the substrate, and converting it available to the plant, for uptake.

Maintaining proper osmotic pressures are the key at the end, no doubt.
 
Osmosic
Last edited:

Similar threads

BillFarthing
Replies
11
Views
1K
Frostfire
Frostfire
Skybound
Replies
9
Views
860
Skybound
Skybound
Strozer
Replies
1
Views
311
Kampbe1l
Kampbe1l
T
Replies
17
Views
257
sportyridr
sportyridr
BillFarthing
Replies
106
Views
4K
Skybound
Skybound
Top Bottom