Bonsai SCROG Training and Micro Managing

[Miiikke]

This is a very exaggerated expiremental approach for informational purposes*

 

[Miiikke]

Looks like these plants are over feed from tip burn in second photo, and maybe a little to aggressive on the trimming in the beginning, which is why your plant is dwarfed from continuous over stressing. You do know that just because you increase the bud sites does not mean you increase your yield. It also involves the amount of light for each of those bud sites. and it is shared by your light source. in other words, more light increases more yield. From what I see in this post, I think you you will be forever in veg, and by the time you get these to flower and finish, I think you will be more disappointed than you think.

And its only one plant*

 

[Miiikke]

What should I be feeding now in veg. I just yse fish fertilizer at about 50%, I am starting to get some tip burn, would it be from insuficient nutes or excess nutes do to high defiliation?

 

[Miiikke]

Leaves looked well u until about week 11, Ive been giving 50% fish fertilizer since about week 4 is it just time to increase the fish fertilizer or can I add anything else for speed, strength, ect.?

 

[Miiikke]

And its only one plant*

Nm lol

 

[Miiikke]

 

[soultouch]

Im 10 weeks from seed. I know its small but that was my intention. Im happy to be at about 10” tall with an about to be 128 colas going straight up. I will contain horizontal growth and keep the 128 going up as single stem colas. One big fat one on each cola. Ill grow up enough to spread them and re contain the height on the way up and use the screen to weave again to even out the height, Ill grow about an expected three quarters more of my cola height in late vet as a pre flower, and then control the flower stretch with fimming so I stay completely flat until harvest

Kudos on your experimental zeal. Please also include what "soill mix", the size of the container, the depth of the soil, exactly what wattage and brand lightrs you are using, how high above the canopy you are keeping the lights, th eparticular strain you are growing [if known] and track any other environmental factor so that your experiment can be replicated even by you. that being said, Your micro scrogging appears to be stuting the growth of your plants and you are definitely showing some signs of mutrient deficiencies. Seems you are constantly defoliating your plants and each time you do that it takes a while for the plant to recover, especially when it is young. I will be interested in knowing how long it takes for you to evenly fill out your scrog screen. Compare your biomass to another guy who showed his pics and his plants appear 4 times larger and are younger. Yu may have to veg for quite a while using your system. You culd have tried 2 to 40 plants in the same space to speed up veg time. At any rate, you do yourself and everyone justice if you diligently track as many environmental aspects as possible,so that we all learn and also have enough data and protocol to reproduce or vary some control in a similar experiment. Clearly, many people get great results using a multititudwe of pruning, training and defoliation practices at different growth stages. i have yet to see many published studies using contorols to compare how much better buds or biomass is actually verified by compraring test treatments to identical clones side by side.

 

[soultouch]

Looks like you have multiple deficiencies going on. You better get that thing healthy first before you flip. How big is that trellis?.

the upper leaves are from some immobile nutrient and some interveinal chlorosis. First guess would be Cal Mag type of deficiency common in coco and is very pH sensitive. Lower yellow leaves are from Mobile nutrients such as N P K, in this case you could probably up your nitrogen, and cannabis prefers Nitrate to Ammonium or Urea sources

 

[Miiikke]

Kudos on your experimental zeal. Please also include what "soill mix", the size of the container, the depth of the soil, exactly what wattage and brand lightrs you are using, how high above the canopy you are keeping the lights, th eparticular strain you are growing [if known] and track any other environmental factor so that your experiment can be replicated even by you. that being said, Your micro scrogging appears to be stuting the growth of your plants and you are definitely showing some signs of mutrient deficiencies. Seems you are constantly defoliating your plants and each time you do that it takes a while for the plant to recover, especially when it is young. I will be interested in knowing how long it takes for you to evenly fill out your scrog screen. Compare your biomass to another guy who showed his pics and his plants appear 4 times larger and are younger. Yu may have to veg for quite a while using your system. You culd have tried 2 to 40 plants in the same space to speed up veg time. At any rate, you do yourself and everyone justice if you diligently track as many environmental aspects as possible,so that we all learn and also have enough data and protocol to reproduce or vary some control in a similar experiment. Clearly, many people get great results using a multititudwe of pruning, training and defoliation practices at different growth stages. i have yet to see many published studies using contorols to compare how much better buds or biomass is actually verified by compraring test treatments to identical clones side by side.

Exactly Soultouch!! I have everything and will document it, and more pictures soon! What I can tell you guys now is that the colas are coming up quick now from first screen. I wont be filling that screen that was just to place the nodes for an exact count, and it stayed at that height because I directed it to, part of this study will be to concentrate on branch growth and structure in early veg training and development, bio mass can and will come later above the flower screen which will receive the only needed light, with maybe a few under carriage lights for the bottom side Just incase.So this experiment will possibly prove the fact that my plant had not slowed down at all, and infact speeded up its yield potential with proper defoliation and training techniques that are documented each time. The experiment is with one plant so it can be an exact calculated result which can be duplicated with x2 lights and space. If I can get 1 to 2lbs with 1 plant on a 2.5’ x 2.5’ flower screen at only say 2.5 to 3’ tall with soil and pot, and 12x 80 true watt led bulbs ($75 per 4bulbs) hung flat to mirror screen at around 1’ away to maintain around 80* in light in a 72* house- then you can multiply your yield by space with same results. The foliage you are speaking of now will come off soon, but I believe watching signals of new fan leaves (because they show signs early) you can maintain max speed on new growth and training!

 

[growsince79]

Exactly Soultouch!! I have everything and will document it, and more pictures soon! What I can tell you guys now is that the colas are coming up quick now from first screen. I wont be filling that screen that was just to place the nodes for an exact count, and it stayed at that height because I directed it to, part of this study will be to concentrate on branch growth and structure in early veg training and development, bio mass can and will come later above the flower screen which will receive the only needed light, with maybe a few under carriage lights for the bottom side Just incase.So this experiment will possibly prove the fact that my plant had not slowed down at all, and infact speeded up its yield potential with proper defoliation and training techniques that are documented each time. The experiment is with one plant so it can be an exact calculated result which can be duplicated with x2 lights and space. If I can get 1 to 2lbs with 1 plant on a 2.5’ x 2.5’ flower screen at only say 2.5 to 3’ tall with soil and pot, and 12x 80 true watt led bulbs ($75 per 4bulbs) hung flat to mirror screen at around 1’ away to maintain around 80* in light in a 72* house- then you can multiply your yield by space with same results. The foliage you are speaking of now will come off soon, but I believe watching signals of new fan leaves (because they show signs early) you can maintain max speed on new growth and training!

Dude you keep saying colas. What you are trying to grow is lots of tiny buds- not colas. If you want colas, grow colas not 150 tiny buds.

 

[Miiikke]

the upper leaves are from some immobile nutrient and some interveinal chlorosis. First guess would be Cal Mag type of deficiency common in coco and is very pH sensitive. Lower yellow leaves are from Mobile nutrients such as N P K, in this case you could probably up your nitrogen, and cannabis prefers Nitrate to Ammonium or Urea sources

Thanks! I was using Alaska fish fertilizer and I think thats why, I just switched and fed with this yesterday and its looking well so far, do you recommend a brand or product that may keep a heavy defoliated plant as healthy as possible and speed up new growth, I think I need alot of booster for this kind of thing, Im gonna look for a supplement that I can ease in If I get any more flare ups.

 

[Miiikke]

Dude you keep saying colas. What you are trying to grow is lots of tiny buds- not colas. If you want colas, grow colas not 150 tiny buds.

I dont understand what you are saying at all? What you see are new colas that have just been split, they will obviously all be grown into full size colas that will be a specific height for yield expectancy. Tiny buds? Im not about to flower tomorrow.

 

[Miiikke]

 

[Miiikke]

Hi, nice work! I like the long veg times myself but I don't Scrog. I just top,bend,twist and whatever to make bushes. I get a lot of side lighting not just top light and if I don't crowd and I rotate daily I get a lot of pine cones growing everywhere.

I just thought I'd show you mine as a comparison at 11 weeks
( Christmas clones ) 10 days into flower

How many colas do you have there at 11 weeks? I get that the bush technique is fast in a way but you would. Need way less light on a flat screen. Thank you for showing me, Im curious to know how many light accessible colas you have there ready flower to my brand new under developed colas for advanced scrog training time efficiency data for my grow? Thanks!!

 

[growsince79]

I dont understand what you are saying at all? What you see are new colas that have just been split, they will obviously all be grown into full size colas that will be a specific height for yield expectancy. Tiny buds? Im not about to flower tomorrow.View attachment 1102121View attachment 1102122

LOL Colas need more than 2.5". Have you ever grown one?

 

[Miiikke]

LOL Colas need more than 2.5". Have you ever grown one?

Yes and it will be about 5” to 6” above the flower screen which is enough for at least an 8th on each cola. I dont like your attitude and your actually not as smart as you think you are, I dont mind if you don't comment anymore. Thank you

 

[growsince79]

Yes and it will be about 5” to 6” above the flower screen which is enough for at least an 8th on each cola. I dont like your attitude and your actually not as smart as you think you are, I dont mind if you don't comment anymore. Thank you

Sorry man, just tryin to help you. I hate watching newbies fail. In the time you wasted, you could have already harvested colas.

At least learn the terminology though. Tiny buds or miniature bonsai is not the same as colas.

 

[Miiikke]

Sorry man, just tryin to help you. I hate watching newbies fail. In the time you wasted, you could have already harvested colas.

At least learn the terminology though. Tiny buds or miniature bonsai is not the same as colas.

Ok Ill reply once more but every top that is at the level top is a main cola and can be grown to whatever size you prefer, if and 1/8th dry weight cola is tiny buds to you, then yeah I want at least 128 “tiny buds”

 

[growsince79]

Yes, I would consider that little buds. So your goal is one pound in a 2.5x 2.5? in how many days?

 

[QuindariousGooch]

You mentioned a few times the goal is a perfectly flat top.

I have something you might consider.

We agree that having a greater surface area exposed to light will yield more flower. So, what has more surface area, an even flat surface or one with variable heights?
My testing back when I was running a small scrog showed 10 to 25 prevent better yields. The side by side was reliable to me because they were all treated the same except for plant structure.
Imagine if you're tabletop of buds had spears of more, taller stems popping up and adding to your yield... Perhaps every 5th bud is a 1/4 ounce.
The real question becomes should I smoke more or "give" some to friends.