Bonsai SCROG Training and Micro Managing

[Miiikke]

Yes, I would consider that little buds. So your goal is one pound in a 2.5x 2.5? in how many days?

Maybe 3’ max in 7months

 

[growsince79]

Maybe 3’ max in 7months

That's a long time just for a pound. I couldn't do it.

 

[Miiikke]

You mentioned a few times the goal is a perfectly flat top.

I have something you might consider.

We agree that having a greater surface area exposed to light will yield more flower. So, what has more surface area, an even flat surface or one with variable heights?
My testing back when I was running a small scrog showed 10 to 25 prevent better yields. The side by side was reliable to me because they were all treated the same except for plant structure.
Imagine if you're tabletop of buds had spears of more, taller stems popping up and adding to your yield... Perhaps every 5th bud is a 1/4 ounce.
The real question becomes should I smoke more or "give" some to friends.

Thats great! I mean sounds like your speaking of foxtails, each cola will have I would be at least an 8th at 6” above screen and 2.5 to 3” surrounding clearance they eill have a bunch of internodes cause I will be fimming them also to maintain level during thr flower stretch I think a quarter ounce on each “cola” cause they are colas will fit with that space but like you said on just the best ones every other 5 colas who knows but that will still give me closer to a lb in a half, in bery little space, yeah it took longer, but if you clone every 4 weeks and consider a 4 week setback to reach same level of training then you can start harvesting 1 to 2 lbs per plant every two month with very little space and minimum watts required! I didint understand the 10 to 25 part tho, what are you referring to? Oh I think your considering variable heights of colas in flower and more then 10 to 25 colas start to prevent a better yeild? Because I will control that height, all 144 colas are expected to maintain the exact same height and will be fimmed accordingly. So I only need 128 at st least an 8th dried for the lb but I already see that 144at 6” by 2.5” to 3” clearance I may get closer to double, and I have the 144 now so I dont see how its stunted at all, they just need to grow up through the next screen that will space and support them.

 

[Miiikke]

That's a long time just for a pound. I couldn't do it.

Its very little space in lights tho, and thats what this is about, so if I grew 4 plants with a traditional growers space and lights I could have 5 to 8 lbs in 7 months where as they grew 4 plants 8 times to get 8 lbs with the same space and lights and duration. Did that take more then 7 months, yes if you cant yeild anything in mess then 12 to 14 weeks. That would take you (14x8) 112 weeks, 9 months at best

 

[Goodthingsgrow]

This seems more like a form of art. Or some type of meditative growing style. Interesting though.
In my honest and humble opinion, this seems like a waste of A LOT of time and I have a hard time estimating a pound. Unless you’re growing it another three feet. Maybe a quarter of that if you’re lucky.
I really hope I’m wrong.
I’ll check back in a year to see if you are flowering yet.

 

[growsince79]

Its very little space in lights tho, and thats what this is about, so if I grew 4 plants with a traditional growers space and lights I could have 5 to 8 lbs in 7 months where as they grew 4 plants 8 times to get 8 lbs with the same space and lights and duration. Did that take more then 7 months, yes if you cant yeild anything in mess then 12 to 14 weeks. That would take you (14x8) 112 weeks, 9 months at best

Forgive me, I'm so high I don't even know what you said. My point was, you can get your pound in under 4 months in the same 3 x3 with with 3-4 plants.

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

I agree with @growsince79 . I think it could have been said a little nicer but it's true. With the stress it has already been put under, plus low quality lights, plus relatively low wattage and space, you can't get 3.5g colas on each of those tops. I'd be surprised if you get 1 that was that heavy. I'm trying to be as nice as possible here but it's a pretty rough plant. I think you said you're planning to flower tomorrow, I suggest waiting 3-6 days without any topping or training at all to let them recover more. It's like you're trying to get an athlete to run a marathon at an insane speed after working out for weeks with no breaks and with an injury. I think it's a cool experiment but not the best plant if you're looking for results.

 

[Miiikke]

I agree with @growsince79 . I think it could have been said a little nicer but it's true. With the stress it has already been put under, plus low quality lights, plus relatively low wattage and space, you can't get 3.5g colas on each of those tops. I'd be surprised if you get 1 that was that heavy. I'm trying to be as nice as possible here but it's a pretty rough plant. I think you said you're planning to flower tomorrow, I suggest waiting 3-6 days without any topping or training at all to let them recover more. It's like you're trying to get an athlete to run a marathon at an insane speed after working out for weeks with no breaks and with an injury. I think it's a cool experiment but not the best plant if you're looking for results.

You’re completely missing it worse them him. I am NOT flowering tomorrow, I have at least 2 more months in veg. I will get at least 3.5 g per cola, I havent stunted the growth I have 144 new colas level in 12 weeks from seed, its a complicated setup I get, but Im most definitely not under wattage with a 17” x 17” screen with 640 true watts , and you cant tell me why there ate any less quality led cause they give off more of a purple light so please save your self that trouble. Check back jn and about 4 months and youll see what Im talking about cause you obviously cant see the vision. “He could have said it” smarter or from a more factual scientific basis, like you but you dont know what your’re talking about so thats tough. Stick to your growing what you know, stay in your lane and off my thread. How is this stunted it just new growth that will grow and stretch and be individually trained for much longer before flower. I just chopped a majority of foliage thursday and its already stacking up with fan leaves again, it speeds up every time I defoliate, you dont know that because youve never done it properly and you dont listen

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

You’re completely missing it worse them him. I am NOT flowering tomorrow, I have at least 2 more months in veg. I will get at least 3.5 g per cola, I havent stunted the growth I have 144 new colas level in 12 weeks from seed, its a complicated setup I get, but Im most definitely not under wattage with a 17” x 17” screen with 640 true watts , and you cant tell me why there ate any less quality led cause they give off more of a purple light so please save your self that trouble. Check back jn and about 4 months and youll see what Im talking about cause you obviously cant see the vision.

Sorry I misread your post, I thought you said you were about to flower but you said you weren't. You couldn't possibly be using 640w over a 17x17 plant, even 100w would probably fry the leaves within a day. I switched to full spectrum lighting because I wasn't getting the results I desired when using blurples. There's no need to be so defensive, we're legitimately trying to help you and your plant.

 

[growsince79]

You’re completely missing it worse them him. I am NOT flowering tomorrow, I have at least 2 more months in veg. I will get at least 3.5 g per cola, I havent stunted the growth I have 144 new colas level in 12 weeks from seed, its a complicated setup I get, but Im most definitely not under wattage with a 17” x 17” screen with 640 true watts , and you cant tell me why there ate any less quality led cause they give off more of a purple light so please save your self that trouble. Check back jn and about 4 months and youll see what Im talking about cause you obviously cant see the vision.

You still haven't explained how growing a pound in 7 months is better than growing the same pound in the same space in 4 months using way less power. Not trying to be a downer, but your vision isn't gonna work well.

 

[Miiikke]

Forgive me, I'm so high I don't even know what you said. My point was, you can get your pound in under 4 months in the same 3 x3 with with 3-4 plants.

So you can get 1 lb in 2.5’ x 2.5’ screen at 3’ tall with 960 true watts in 4 months? Not sure you’re sure about that. So if I can get 2 lbs in 7 months I still have you beat right?

 

[Miiikke]

Sorry I misread your post, I thought you said you were about to flower but you said you weren't. You couldn't possibly be using 640w over a 17x17 plant, even 100w would probably fry the leaves within a day. I switched to full spectrum lighting because I wasn't getting the results I desired when using blurples. There's no need to be so defensive, we're legitimately trying to help you and your plant.

Ok then I apologize, This is 560 right now on top and 80 on the side. I had two on the side but I just moved the fixture for my clones. it can be kept then a foot away If your surrounding temp is around 70*. They are 80 true watts each bulb. You hust werent using your lights correctly. Please stop telling people blurple is low quality if they have true watts. Your just getting ripped off, and Im using my cheap lights better , and they are working great, it wont fry your leaves just literally burn them if you dont monitor your temperature

 

[growsince79]

So you can get 1 lb in 2.5’ x 2.5’ screen at 3’ tall with 960 true watts in 4 months? Not sure you’re sure about that. So if I can get 2 lbs in 7 months I still have you beat right?

You said 3 x 3. I have a 2 x 4. 1 pound in less than 4 months with 300w led is very doable. I don't think you can get 2 lbs in that space regardless of light and veg time.

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

You’re completely missing it worse them him. I am NOT flowering tomorrow, I have at least 2 more months in veg. I will get at least 3.5 g per cola, I havent stunted the growth I have 144 new colas level in 12 weeks from seed, its a complicated setup I get, but Im most definitely not under wattage with a 17” x 17” screen with 640 true watts , and you cant tell me why there ate any less quality led cause they give off more of a purple light so please save your self that trouble. Check back jn and about 4 months and youll see what Im talking about cause you obviously cant see the vision. “He could have said it” smarter or from a more factual scientific basis, like you but you dont know what your’re talking about so thats tough. Stick to your growing what you know, stay in your lane and off my thread. How is this stunted it just new growth that will grow and stretch and be individually trained for much longer before flower. I just chopped a majority of foliage thursday and its already stacking up with fan leaves again, it speeds up every time I defoliate, you dont know that because youve never done it properly and you dont listenView attachment 1102308

I'm replying to the new stuff that you added:

Here is an example of a much less aggressive approach to defoliating, topping, training and scroging (which I have clearly done so please don't tell me what I have and haven't done.) This plant is a week or so younger than yours. I have around the same number of tops as you, and each one has fan leaves helping with the growth. It is reasonable to expect 3.5g (or more) colas from each of these tops with lower buds as well. I'm not showing off by the way, I am showing you the potential of one plant for this long period of time. And I'm not saying mine is perfect at all, I have made mistakes and could have done much better. To talk about @growsince79 's point, I could have done the exact same method that I did here with 4 plants and I could have had buds by now.

The idea with defoliation is to remove the leaves that aren't in use or are covering up other leaves that could be in use. Removing too many stresses out the plant and reduces the amount of light/energy it can use and turn into growth.

Edit: Just for perspective, this is under 240w dimmed to around 175 atm.

 

[Miiikke]

You said 3 x 3. I have a 2 x 4. 1 pound in less than 4 months with 300w led is very doable. I don't think you can get 2 lbs in that space regardless of light and veg time.

You can do 1 lb in less then 4 months with 2’ x 4’ of space and only 300 true watts of led?

 

[growsince79]

I'm replying to the new stuff that you added:

Here is an example of a much less aggressive approach to defoliating, topping, training and scroging (which I have clearly done so please don't tell me what I have and haven't done.) This plant is a week or so younger than yours. I have around the same number of tops as you, and each one has fan leaves helping with the growth. It is reasonable to expect 3.5g (or more) colas from each of these tops with lower buds as well. I'm not showing off by the way, I am showing you the potential of one plant for this long period of time. And I'm not saying mine is perfect at all, I have made mistakes and could have done much better. To talk about @growsince79 's point, I could have done the exact same method that I did here with 4 plants and I could have had buds by now.

The idea with defoliation is to remove the leaves that aren't in use or are covering up other leaves that could be in use. Removing too many stresses out the plant and reduces the amount of light/energy it can use and turn into growth.

View attachment 1102322View attachment 1102323View attachment 1102324

Nice

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

You should have stuck to calling it your meditative bonsai garden. Come what May. Or most likly, may not.
not talked about “colas” or pounds. Or even grams, or asked for help.
there are sharks on here, and they will feed on the easy prey.
I wish you luck grower.

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

Ok then I apologize, This is 560 right now on top and 80 on the side. I had two on the side but I just moved the fixture for my clones. Jt can be kept then a foot away. 80 true watts each bulb. You hust werent using your lights correctly. Please stop telling people blurple is low quality if they have true watts. Your just getting ripped off, and Im using my cheap lights better , and they are working great, it wont fry your leaves just literally burn them if you dont monitor your temperatureView attachment 1102313

You must be mistaken. There are 3 possibilities with these lights if your plant is surviving:

1. They are not actually 80w and probably more like 10-20 at the most each.

2. The plants are getting some kind of extreme amount of CO2 and you are an incredible grower and have every parameter perfect without any probelms at all. I find this highly unlikely since the plant would be 5 times the size at least by now if this were true.

3. The lights are extremely bad quality and are turning 75% of their energy into heat. This I also find very unlikely since it seems like your temps aren't bad and I don't see an industrial air conditioner.

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

You should have stuck to calling it your meditative bonsai garden. Come what May. Or may not.
not talked about “colas” or pounds. Or even grams, or asked for help.
there are sharks on here, and they will feed on the easy prey.
I wish you luck grower.

I only skimmed the first few pages but I think there have only been people providing constructive feedback. I don't see any sharks.

 

[growsince79]

You should have stuck to calling it your meditative bonsai garden. Come what May. Or may not.
not talked about “colas” or pounds. Or even grams, or asked for help.
there are sharks on here, and they will feed on the easy prey.
I wish you luck grower.

I don't think sharks are trying to feed on anyone's mistakes. Just trying to help the kids out is all. I'm about reality not vision. You don't get 16 colas per sqft. 16 little buds ok.