Breeding etiquette , or Just pollen chucking politeness?

[NaturalTherapy]

(I would love to hear from the old guys who were around then if their memories are the same on this timeline/availability)

First Kush I ever saw growing was mid 2005 with Reeferman's Pink Kush. Before that maybe once a year I'd get a load of gear that was called afghan kush or hindu kush. That was also during the time when OG kush was just OG kush (in my circle anyway)- no modifiers to designate where it came from. I haven't seen a better OG since...haven't grown one either so maybe that is part of the problem...

So perhaps half of it belongs to ethical, respectful behavior, while the other half is about preservation for further posterity for the sake of historical record. And if you choose to acknowledge a strains lineage, its more about the reasons you care about this plant, and not necessarily to do with ethics

 

[sky high]

First Kush I ever saw growing was mid 2005 with Reeferman's Pink Kush. Before that maybe once a year I'd get a load of gear that was called afghan kush or hindu kush. That was also during the time when OG kush was just OG kush (in my circle anyway)- no modifiers to designate where it came from. I haven't seen a better OG since...

Thanks for chiming in. I remember similar times....where the tag was simply "Afghani" and the lore was of the "Kush mountains"....not a beach in Cali. or a gangsta in Compton...

I didn't see any "kush" personally until I was given the "Ghost" cut in 2006 or so.

crazy how the kush fad has taken over and many of the old strains that were being worked as recently as 7 years ago lost favor...huh? That right there has hit the genepool harder/in a more negative way than anything the "older" guys ever did. I mean...are any of the new breed of chuckers going abroad to source landraces like their predecessors did? I'm not seeing talk of it if they are.

be well bro

s h

 

[bigcheese510]

ive been smoking KUSH since very early 2000s

 

[Classic Remix]

Thanks for chiming in. I remember similar times....where the tag was simply "Afghani" and the lore was of the "Kush mountains"....not a beach in Cali. or a gangsta in Compton...

I didn't see any "kush" personally until I was given the "Ghost" cut in 2006 or so.

crazy how the kush fad has taken over and many of the old strains that were being worked as recently as 7 years ago lost favor...huh? That right there has hit the genepool harder/in a more negative way than anything the "older" guys ever did. I mean...are any of the new breed of chuckers going abroad to source landraces like their predecessors did? I'm not seeing talk of it if they are.

be well bro

s h

I loved that post. I do remember hearing about the excursions and trips to acquire landrace genetics. the last i remember that happening to (dont even know how he got em just where from) was the alien tech beans from obs.... but really NOTHING other than that in the recent years.

yeah bigcheese, i remember a few kush's from back in the early 2000's in SD......


wait im stoned 2004 isnt that early.... hahahaha

 

[Classic Remix]

not to argue but ghani n kush was all over Colo in the nineties....spent all my lunch money on five dollar joints....
some called it green bud some afghani most ghani....I get all confused too cuz kush aint really refering to hindukush cuz i grew a lot looking for that type herbs.....I love that weed.....part of why I'm such a pothead....sometimes one the best "og" this or that I have gots a wisp of a taste or smell similar but its faint. Ok hears a rumor an old friend says "kush" came from cali Kush county ghani.....but I'd have to say its same gene line as the "kush" or ghani from CO too which I'm almost certain came from a cat in PNW thats had since the seventies who is gone now guys.......I know next to nothing for certain of anything anymore in life but what awaits me ultimately n that this worlds puzzling though........

yeah, i mean its all heresay at this point IMO about where old school stuff came from, i just gotta praise and be thankful that people did preserve those cuts (whether doing it right or wrong)

and im sure a lot of you older heads where puffin some serious herb still back in the day. but me simply being in my mid 20's, i wasnt like packin snaps before nap time

 

[sky high]

LOL, Classic. Back then...with all of the sativas goin 'round...you would have been too high to nap and would have been cryin out for a entire box of Animal crackers instead...LOL

Yeah MOIO...we started seeing "Afghani" in the early 80's in the midwest (KC). If I can find them I'll scan/post some pics of some scraggly/6+ ft tall plants I grew in my backyard in '82 before I knew anyhting about growing pot. Pretty sure they were being bathed in streetlight glow all night 'cus they were in the city and the buds were pretty weak in size... but I had no clue at the time. (many will say I still don't...but that's another thread) Even so I got a QP from both....and compared to the typical brown pot fare of the day...folks were loving it.

sure wish I woulda thought to call it kush.... LOL. (pre-'83 Kush, naturally) :D

 

[NaturalTherapy]

not to argue but ghani n kush was all over Colo in the nineties....spent all my lunch money on five dollar joints....
some called it green bud some afghani most ghani....I get all confused too cuz kush aint really refering to hindukush cuz i grew a lot looking for that type herbs.....I love that weed.....part of why I'm such a pothead....sometimes one the best "og" this or that I have gots a wisp of a taste or smell similar but its faint. Ok hears a rumor an old friend says "kush" came from cali Kush county ghani.....but I'd have to say its same gene line as the "kush" or ghani from CO too which I'm almost certain came from a cat in PNW thats had since the seventies who is gone now guys.......I know next to nothing for certain of anything anymore in life but what awaits me ultimately n that this worlds puzzling though........

I don't take it as argument, just speaking for my circles. My uncle was growing NLxAfghani in Denver since early 90s, when I was a pup... but I wasn't even a smoker until 2000ish, so I can only speak for what I saw at the time, until I was involved more.

 

[Animal Chin]

i wish i could remember what strains i was growing in the early 90s. me and my boys were trading clones and all i can remember is calling it "indo"...this is one of those topics that brings the heat, im glad everyones being civil. another topic that brings the heat is discussing eagle 20 lol that shit can start wars...peace

 

[waayne]

Here's a couple of references to Kush in Laurence Cherniak's book
The Great Books of Cannabis
Volume I: Book II
This was published in 1983
I apologize for the low quality pics.......

The top left nugs in this pic are the kush buds

Great thread guys, lets try and keep it on topic:)

 

[thunderfudge]

A most excellent post, sym.

Here's a load of crap from an old guy who has seen this same "ethical" scenario play out more than once on the pot boards over the years...

First and foremost....ethics are a wonderful thing....but we can't just choose the bits and peices of the puzzle that serve us and our individual needs and be anywhere near "ethical".

There are a some folks out there who only breed to give their wares away who would say that selling seeds for any price is unethical. To these people, it's a plant. No one owns it. They know they only own the TIME they spent dealing with it. Time spent on something you LOVE should be just that. If you don't LOVE it enough to do it for free...you probably love something else about it...like the $$$.

And if you do sell seed, the first thing you need to realize is that they aren't yours anymore. If you want to retain the "ME, ME, MINE" tag or some sort of magical control over said seeds, don't sell 'em! When I buy any other goods..TV's...a car..etc... the manufacturer does not restrict my use of said product or tell me they retain all rights to that product after the sale. If I buy a tomato seed..."Burpee" (a large established seed Company) isn't riding my ass or telling me as a consumer of their wares who/what/where/when I can use their seeds or that I cannot breed/propagate from those wares. Ohhh...but cannabis is different, some say.
Are you fuckin kidding me?

Back to "ethics".....if you are selling seeds....where is the COMPLETE pedigree of the past in many of the seeds sold here and elsewhere today? I'll wager heavily that 90% of the "kushes" being crossed today came from the Oger's/Bubba stock Organkid dropped in 2004 or 2005. I mean..there weren't any other breeders selling such wares (Kush) at the time that >I< saw. (I would love to hear from the old guys who were around then if their memories are the same on this timeline/availability)

I'm not saying the trading of "kush" seed wasn't happening before Organkid...but if it was..it was among friends/etc. because HS was the largest seed site in existence then...and maybe since then as well. Does Organkid get any credit on today's crosses? Do people REALLY know the lineage of >their< seed stock? Are the breeders today spending as much time researching the complete lineage of the seed they are spending telling folks NOW they they can't do this is that with >their< seeds? Nope. Gimme a goddamn break. Honestly.

Case in point: The Ghost cut came from those Organkid seeds but none of the Ghost crosses sold here refer to Organ as the originator. I'm of the belief that the Bubba is the same way. Once the Bubba seeds went out.....the "new" "Bubba" kush crosses started showing up. Has Organkid been credited? nope. "Tech" (Technology) Kush was made by folks I was on a private board with at the time. (2005-2007) Does anyone here know where the name "Tech" originated or why? Does anyone give credit to these peeps when they use the tag "Tech? Obviously not. Should they? By the standards being placed upon others by some breeders... fuck yes they should.

Did anyone get permission from Organkid to breed "kush" in the first place? Doubtful....

Did Organ ask the person he sourced the seeds he S-1'd if he could do so and sell them? Who knows..it isn't documented/is lost info. Does it matter now anyway? Have peeps stopped selling/refrained from breeding this stock because they never got permission? Fuck no.

More recently...did anyone ask Rezdong's permission to breed Sour deisel? I remember his claim of ownership on that one and similar restrictions. you guys are all following those requests...right? LOFL. Same circus..new clowns!

As far as the genepool going to shit in 25 years or the "old school" fuckin it all up/somehow bottlenecking this plant and it's furthering....

What hurts cannabis is hoarding. The GREAT cuts that folks hold tight,,,,that many times are lost because of such selfishness and greed. How ethical is that?

And the renaming..... it's outta control. All of these Oger's/Bubba offshoots (IMO)...renamed in contests or other short-sighted affairs as some new/great/just created "kush"....it just blows my mind to see those involved in cannabis for less than a decade speaking about how others fucked it up or talking about the pool gettin pee'd in as if they have no hand in such things.

Gimme a break. Honestly.

s h

Very good posts sym,s h,and a whole lot of others.these two said exactly what took me a half an hour to write and erase. Lol.spot on.alien is the only cat I have seen give OKID his props.

 

[rollon]

hey ken nice thread. if anybody really wants to keep there beans safe ive got the number to monsanto's terminater seed department

 

[Classic Remix]

SICCKKKK waayne!

 

[symbiote420]

?) What if I have stock from breeders who aren't in the game anymore, how would one go about using their gear if I can't reach them for permission?

:confused:

Great thread!

 

[Alien]

I wonder if the Hindu Kush mountains get upset about not getting their proper credit...

Waayne, thank you for posting that.

In all seriousness, for what it's worth to anyone, the very best landraces I have ever encountered have all been from this region. The absolute best is a pure IBL that was brought over in 1967 by Donovan Leitch. It was given to him by monks there. The monks told him they had been inbreeding it for over 2000 years. The rough translation he was given from the monks for this strain was "Hash Oil Plant". Donovan gave those beans to a close friend of mine that same year, who has been inbreeding it ever since (45 years). The man who passed these beans on to me 15 years ago is on his death bed and will be gone from this world soon. This is a big part of why I do what I do. Carry the torch...use the gifts that you are given to the maximum of your ability, and do the absolute best you can do with each day.

Alright, thread back on topic. Sorry for the quick derail.

Let's all just agree and thank the Hindu Kush mountains for the best indicas the world has to offer.

Cheers, Thanks and Praises,
A

 

[motiv303]

Very good posts sym,s h,and a whole lot of others.these two said exactly what took me a half an hour to write and erase. Lol.spot on.alien is the only cat I have seen give OKID his props.

Baba G has as well with the Banana Oger Kush he uses. Jus sayin. What up Fudge! peace homie. Motiv

 

[caregiverken]

This is my offical Thank You to The Hindu Kush Montains

Oh let the sun beat down upon my face, stars to fill my dream ​

I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been ​

To sit with elders of the gentle race, this world has seldom seen ​

They talk of days for which they sit and wait and all will be revealed ​

​

Turn it up!​

​

​

​

:D ​

 

[motiv303]

I wonder if the Hindu Kush mountains get upset about not getting their proper credit...

View attachment 243768

Waayne, thank you for posting that.

In all seriousness, for what it's worth to anyone, the very best landraces I have ever encountered have all been from this region. The absolute best is a pure IBL that was brought over in 1967 by Donovan Leitch. It was given to him by monks there. The monks told him they had been inbreeding it for over 2000 years. The rough translation he was given from the monks for this strain was "Hash Oil Plant". Donovan gave those beans to a close friend of mine that same year, who has been inbreeding it ever since (45 years). The man who passed these beans on to me 15 years ago is on his death bed and will be gone from this world soon. This is a big part of why I do what I do. Carry the torch...use the gifts that you are given to the maximum of your ability, and do the absolute best you can do with each day.

Alright, thread back on topic. Sorry for the quick derail.

Let's all just agree and thank the Hindu Kush mountains for the best indicas the world has to offer.

Cheers, Thanks and Praises,
A

AWESOME post A! Thank you for sharing that. I am sorry to hear that this gentleman and friend of yours is nearing his time, my prayers are with him, his family, and of course, You. Be well Captain! Motiv

 

[MakinGoo]

Thank u Hindu Kush mountains !!!

 

[keonaona]

awesome story alien !!! many blessings to your friend and his family ...

 

[Alien]

awesome story alien !!! many blessings to your friend and his family ...

Will pass along MEGA Aloha to him today from you, Keo. He will appreciate that...spent a lot of his time on your home soil. I'll be seeing him this evening.

Thanks for the kind words and warm vibes...much Aloha my brada kine!

A