Breeding for whorls

[MrBelvedere]

So, Glad that crazy law got overruled, unbelievable it even made it. For sure some bored cops will stake the shops out. :confused: Be safe over there.

 

[Sativied]

For now my growshop to go to is the dampkring in Amsterdam, across Central Station, the most busy area in Amsterdam. I walk to it with a joint in my hand being just another high tourist. I used to go on my bike to the local growshop cause I don't want the cops to see my car plates. So yeah I definitely try to be careful. It's something the cops have always done also before this law.

I don't really need a grow shop, I can order filters, bulbs, etc online, but now that so many, including the one closest to me are closed it shows just how convenient it was. Like being able to choose from 5 different types of rockwool cubes/jiffies in one store, or those yellow fly catchers... and the regular gardening center in my city doesn't offer perlite... weird.

I'm kind of enjoining trying out different types of soil from the regular gardening center. So many different types, different composition, different nutrients, including organic, I actually just bought one for Buxus plants (more Ca and Mg hence slightly higher ph) I'm going to mix with soil for veggies and try that for the P-F3 plants. I don't get the same results I got on hydro or by mixing soil more carefully but it's cheap and easy.

2x4 Amnesia White at the bottom right. Except for the smallest one the weirdos all caught up nicely.

Even the alternating one looks 'ok':

Spiral because it's alternating already. I won't be using this one for seeds. If it's a male I won't flower it either.

The two that started out perfectly normal:

Going to top both of them to even them out with the rest. I hope it's a boy and a girl. The second seems to lean more towards the afghani genes, first more like the amnesia haze or the thai. I'm going to pollinate them all but hope would be nice to keep the offspring from two that started out normal separate from the rest. I honestly have little doubt the offspring from the ex-weirdos will turn out fine. If against my expectations it inherits I can easily select heavily against it, since it shows so early I can pop and select from hundreds.

I'm going to focus on haze, amnesia haze, for now, if anything this round should give me some comparison material for when I get the AH itself.


Here's a pic of the CHxCH x CHxCH (I should probably just call it F3...) that I thought was going to become a whorler but instead is missing the middle leaflet on one leaf....

 

[MrBelvedere]

There anything you can do in their environment to trigger them to whirl? Like rotating them daily or something?

 

[Sativied]

Well considering phenotype = genotype + enviroment technically the environment could play a role. I don't think it's a large role and something like rotating probably won't have any effect.

There could be an environmental influence that triggers it to express at least sooner but it's not special enough that I need to do anything special. I try to grow a little different every time and had whorlers in 3 outcrosses and the ch x ch itself on various types of hydro, soil, different nutes, light etc.

I had the earliest whorlers on hydro where I typically have thicker stems around the time they 'can' start to whorl. So that, as well as other factors, may play a role indirectly. "Can" because above all they have to mature more first. The earliest happen around the time they sort of establish apical dominance, the point where some seedlings start to branch out and others focus more on the terminal bud. Which of the two depends on the amount of auxins produced by the terminal. Whorled phyllotaxy is a result of a different auxin - cytokinin balance. More auxin from terminal means less branching and more stretch. If I top the terminal the branches start to grow (now more auxin from terminal bud to slow it down) but the whorlers also show themselves (on branches). I got the same result by LST-ing the terminal bud, bending the main stem down, ie. affecting apocal dominance. All this (as well as many papers on wp) indicate auxin - cytokinin balance and concentrations play a role. There is one or more genes from the quad I started out with that affects one or both of these hormones. While technically that means an environmental influence on the normal version of those mutated genes could have the same result or even possibly treating the terminal shoot with cytokinin directly, but, that's not what I want, they need to whorl out of themselves, or at least have a very high change of doing it early under as many different circumstances as possible.


Cytokinins (CK) are a class of plant growth substances (phytohormones) that promote cell division, or cytokinesis, in plant roots and shoots. They are involved primarily in cell growth and differentiation, but also affect apical dominance, axillary bud growth, and leaf senescence. Src: wiki.

 

[Sativied]

CH F3 (tri-fastest x quad)

I'm soaking 14 more of these new, offspring from fastest early tri from the CHxCH run. Already soaked and planted 14 of the 'fattest' tri, which are about to break the soil. Will also plant 14 of the CHxCH itself in which I found the fastest and fattest. Should end up with:

- 12 CH F3 fastest (tri x quad)
- 12 CH F3 fattest (tri x quad)
- 12 CH F2 (which is from CH normal x CH quad)

= 36 plants for the new 400 whorl hunt closet.


Next, some pics from the P-F3 line 19 plants. I expect variation later on (only grown 2 of line 19) but so far most look like copies...

Group shot, 2 rows of 4 Amnesia White in front right:

 

[Sativied]

CH F3:

Especially in the center of the newest leaves the trichs are clearly visible with the naked eye. Clearly more frosty than the 3 outcrosses. I hope that youngest leaf on the left continues to grow in that direction...

Topped the tallest Amnesia White plant yesterday, rest over the next couple of days.

And the plant I saved from the slug. It's about to flower so going to place it outside again so I don't have to breath its pollen...

 

[geologic]

That plant loves you--
you saved him from The Slug Monster...

 

[Sativied]

My wife came up to me yesterday and said:

"Honey, I just took a close look at that plant you took home..."
Me: "Yes...?"
My wife: "I don't think that's a weed plant."

 

[Og Gong]

My wife came up to me yesterday and said:

"Honey, I just took a close look at that plant you took home..."
Me: "Yes...?"
My wife: "I don't think that's a weed plant."

Lmao

 

[Sativied]

Lmao

That was my response too. Still can't find my ass :lol:

Was just checking on the latest CH F3 seedlings. Although not for the darkest F2, they are from that run where I had that dark black purple. Now, I more often get pink and purple on cotyledons but there are a few in the F3 that clearly stand out:

Going to keep an eye on them and see if there's a link with purple in late flower.

 

[Sativied]

This is a hybrid of the plant I took home and the Late Night:

OK, not really, that's a reveg of the candy pheno of the late night. Had plenty of leaves and looked good after removing the seeds, but took a long time to grow new leaves.

AW is looking better and better, clearly some more indica and some more sativa dom.

^^That was one of the weirdest as seedling.

Potential CH F3 whorler, leaf does seem to remain growing towards golden angle.

P-F3 line 19 still looking best, quite a bit younger yet similar amount of nodes as the AW.

 

[geologic]

This is a hybrid of the plant I took home and the Late Night:

HA Ha ha;
how many other folks started looking at it <confused> very close--
for a second Heh...

 

[FlyinJStable]

Ya know the great thing is that you still have fun doing what Ya love.
All My respect for the Sat Man
always a good time when stoppin by
FlyJ

 

[Sativied]

Hey FlyJ, how's the Nyvia II seeds coming along?

 

[Sativied]

Top half is P-F3, bottom half is Amnesia White. The P-F3 line 19 is is just great so far. Lush green as usual by now (regardless of medium/soil/nutrient type), and as predicted, catching up with the roughly 10 days older AW plants fast. Topped most of the AW, need the top to be long enough to use as cutting.

I provided some bacteria and seaweed extract and a mix of 20+ homeopathic trace elements (EM gardening) with the water but no regular nutrients yet (in the soil already though). Bought some new nutrients for this round. A bottle of Fish Mix from Bio-Bizz (complete veg nutes based on fish from the North Sea and dutch red beetroot, smells like molasses with fish smell - buying organic in a bottle... buy local.) and Canna Bio Flores (based on Hop extract, includes cannabinoid-like substances according to Canna). Besides the fish emulsion not the stuff I'd normally give my plants. :) Gave them the first dose of fish mix yesterday.

The 6 CH F3 is in the same closet but not in the pic, still all 6 as straight as can be...

 

[Sativied]

The CH F3 ('nother batch for whorlhunting) purple seedling is still purple but only at the bottom of the leaves...

The P-F3 line 19 is very similar in structure so far, just compared 4 randomly:

Probably going to deprive the P-F3 from light to put it on 12/12 a few days to a week earlier than the AW.

 

[geologic]

purple seedling is still purple but only at the bottom of the leaves...

I've had 'em like that;
bottoms of the leaves red/purple--
entire plant...

 

[Og Gong]

Some of the coolest color pics are under the leaf looking though to the light like this one.

 

[Og Gong]

Sorry meant to hit upload and I hit post lol

 

[Sativied]

Now that is a beautiful abaxial surface picture. Red sure looks better than purple and black/aubergine imo.