Sativied said:

The evergreen IH plant in hempy, should be done soon. Have given it only water for a few days and it's like it's from plastic.
View attachment 553356

Starting to show the tails more obviously:
View attachment 553357
Nothing special, but seeded (small buds at bottom) with AW and CH pollen. Could be interesting to grow out someday, maybe put a few outdoors.

All CHxCH, two males (right in front against the wall)
View attachment 553360
Most stretched right in the back corner, the indica dom with leaves like slaw in left front corner.

View attachment 553359

View attachment 553358
Fairly happy with the soil choice and Atami AB nutes so far.

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They look really healthy and happy!

Sativied said:

Original silver haze would be... oh... yeah, that makes sense. It's afghani x haze. S5 = (Afghani x Haze) x (NL#5 x Haze x Skunk) (assuming SSH cut story). Hence the shorter flower time.

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Correction: silver haze is NL#5/haze x afghani. Shows again seedfinder.eu lineage isn't always correct although it's in the description... Sensi clearly mentions:

"The original Haze has had both its outrageous height gain and interminable flowering period brought under control by breeding with an extra-potent, non-dominant individual from the Northern Lights line. The dark Afghanica also throws its weight behind the feathery Sativa budding pattern, adding bulk without affecting flower formation".

That underlined part is partly why I wanted to cross amnesia with afghani, besides possibly reducing flower time. That appareantly makes it 'too' much afghani and too little haze already, hence the thai in amnesia white, or using silver haze instead of pure afghani to create S5. Makes sense.

The quad-tri is a male. Waiting for it to stretch a bit so I can take a cutting. I got the following male as backup but will be using the quad-tri (x several females) and then back cross the results to the male. If that doesn't at least increase the ratio of whorlers I'm going for @MrBelvedere's idea (which I haven't seen on the interweb for a while, hope you're well MrB), which is to try and cross the whorling into an elite sort of speak an see if I can get at least a good example in clone. With a clone I can simply pick a tri whorled branch, top it and get the 6 non-overlapping branches/colas.

This CHxCH plant is starting to grow on me...



(A P-F1 plant in front, still not happy under the 600w, previous soil type, too compact).

It's raised about 4 inch to get it out of the shade a bit in that corner, but quite a bit longer than the rest. The rest is at two different sizes (about a week apart in veg so seem to be all at roughly the same length). I really like the symmetry and the consistency of the branches. If I had the space I'd put it on the side, tie it down so it remains horizontal. I don't expect much from it, don't like the stretch, but took 2 cuttings anyway since it's such a unique plant compared to the rest of which I can grow more from the ~thousand I got in seed.
It showded the first pistils 3-6 days before all the other females.

Most are just like this one:

Two different leaf types, will take pics later, but not as narrow as PF-1 for example, or the parents of these plants.

The backup male is getting narrower leaflets, flowering faster as usual. Good amount of frost on the fans.

That's a pretty male.. :)

Fun for you,,
ccJ

The still green IH plant.
Thought for a sec I spotted PM left below the center at the tip of the sugar leaf but double checked and it's the light and trichs messing with my head. It's been in my living room for a few days, don't have space for it anymore, going down soon. Fun to grow, not great bud.

The AW clone in the H&G jerry is out of my grow space too, despite being perfectly healthy it's again throwing nanners so I conclude it's genetics and not the hard time they had last run.


Can even see the anthers in the pic above, just above the center.

Some CH F2 shots:


Some of the better ones:




The odd duck wide leaflet pheno:



And the odd duck sativa dom:



Funny how the latter is flowering so much faster than the by-appearance-indica-dom for now.

Harvested the foxtailing hemp plant yesterday and I'm heavingly leaning towards the possibility that I mixed up the labels of the ICExCH and the CHxCH. It would explain more than a few things by now. Above all I also harvested the chxch bonsai tri I pollinated a while back and it's clearly the ice cross IH and not actually ch. While the foxtailer smells and looks like ch.

It would also mean that I'm currently running IH (ICExCH), which sucks... Surely some nice phenos but overall it's blend indica bud. Worse, it's the only of the 4 crosses I made with the quad male that had fullblown hermies... finicky with nutes even in the tubes. Purple stems by default, stretches petioles....

The quad-tri turns out to have that hollow thin walled stem as well so no good for a backcross.

The only thing that doesn't fit is the super stretchy sativa but I guess a fluke or maybe even a real chxch or even late night seed.

The upside - yes there's always an upside in my mind - is that this evergreen hempy plant contains (CHxCH) x Amnesia White seeds and (CHxCH) x (CHxICE).

Anyway, I want to be 100% sure before I move away from the CH so going to pop some IH seeds which then should be CHxCH again... and unlike the four batches of "CHxCH" I've ran actually contain some hazy phenos... Doh. I guess "that" would be the upside, I still have nearly a thousand inbred Cannalope Haze seeds based on a compact pheno and a hazy pheno, both x quad male.

It's embarrassing but what bothers me a lot more is the huge amount of time I wasted.

To me it was educational and inspirational. Stay positive. Peace.

All part of the challenge. Plant more seeds!!

Had to laugh at the pm post. I do that to myself every day ever since I got rid of pm, light always tricking me lol

Thank OG.

I picked the ICE female originally because of its extremely tight structure. Turned into a bush with almost flat canopy, as if were topped. Fat stem, more branches than I ever had on a plant that age:


After looking at some pics of the two IH plants I flowered, and the above, and my current plants, it's more obvious than ever. "ICE" on the calyxes but very little on the leaves, nothing compared to the P cross and CH. IH (ICE x CH) is a little better overall chances are small there will be a worthy plant in this batch. In fact, I just killed all the clones except the one of the stretchy sativa, if it turns out hazy and tasty I'm curious what it will do with little no veg time.

It also explains why the plant in hempy was so frosty at the bottom of leaves. IH could have inherited it from the CH parent but then the other IH plants I flowered would have had some of it too. While it's clearly a trait from the CH (P has it too, not in/from chunk parent, so from CH), one of the two female parents of CHxCH:


So, this is ICE x CH, which I call IH, goal was Ice Haze but there's little to no haze in these.


Great structure on the terminal so far, especially the alternating tris:

Probably best yielding cross I made but it's grass... some with a hint of mint, some slightly floral sweet, but overall a waste of time to grow. Going to finish this run considering they are already flowering and need to veg new plants anyway, will blast it to bho if needed, but not going to make any seeds with these.



The wide leaflet pheno starting to get more narrow and flowering.


A more sativa dom 'looking' with above it the sativa dom:

hiiipower said:

All part of the challenge. Plant more seeds!!

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Already have CHxCH seeds soaking in water. :) Going to take the rest of this run to find and veg some females for next run.

Sativied said:

I picked the ICE female originally because of its extremely tight structure. Turned into a bush with almost flat canopy, as if were topped. Fat stem, more branches than I ever had on a plant that age:

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Wow that is a lot of branching lol. Almost looks like it was monster cloned but not because of the symmetrical stalk. Awesome man.

What are the chances that you didn't mislabel the plants and just found a frosty pheno of IH? Idk man seems unlikely of you to mislabel a plant, just sayin... Could have been the seed coincidently planted in the hempy bucket? Any chance? What does it smell most similar to out of your original parents?

Good on you to ditch the fatty if she's no good lol. Also interested to see what that tall CHf2 pheno does, hopefully doesn't take too long to finish for ya and gives you that haze you want.

By itself it's possible there would be such a plant in the IH but combined with everything else I'm 99% sure I mislabeled two entire bags of seeds automatically causing all plants from it to be mislabeled too. That includes everything after the CH clone run I did so does not affect the P cross but all the whorl hunt runs.

I got two large zips, each with close to 1000 seeds of similar size and texture. Both have a label in it, a small piece of paper. I at some point must have switched the labels. Sounds unlikely too perhaps, I dismissed the option too easily earlier this year myself, but I can think of a few occasions where that could have happened (sifting plant material from it later, taking pics of seed collection, and above all, cause I got high...)

That plant in hempy, I specifically picked some seeds from the IH bag cause I wanted to run just one or two females to check how bad they really are and if it would hermie. Since they are a CH cross it can theoretically produce plants more like the CH than the ICE parent but not entirely like the CH parent in the f1. The ICE is actually clearly more dominant in the cross. That hempy plant just got me to take another critical look at the plants I ran and the ones I got in flower now and it's really obvious now.

The bud structure, plant structure (apical dominance, petiole stretch, leafiness, hollow stem, short nodespacing, transition stretch), leaf and petiole frost, heavily colored fading, smell and taste... And the lack thereof.

About 6 months ago:

Sativied said:

The CH x CH-quad produced over 50% whorlers. I have a couple of hundred seeds created with whorlers from that run (tris and quad, see page 16 for pics), and I'm pretty sure those will again produce mostly whorlers. Only downside is that the bud it produces is not good enough. Looks beautiful, but blend taste and boring effect. I will pop them at some point and possibly backcross something else into it.

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Could have known then. The CH is pungent smelling, some would say too much, and the effect is not boring at all. The CH possibly being just a C99 knockoff threw me off too, I thought I perhaps bred towards its indica lineage and not the haze. I mentioned once in this thread it seems I actually somehow bred the haze out of the CH in one generation. But in hindsight that's obviously because I ran the ice cross and not the ch ibl...:inpain:

Earlier this year Sam the Skunkman asked me for leaf samples of my whorlers, for a dna sequence. I set up that temp 400w closet and popped dozens of seeds from the CHxCH bag as well. Found three great whorlers I took leaves off, and kept one, a female, bonsaied it and didn't flower it till recently (never sent the samples to Sam...). Mostly seeded (with pollen from one of those other tris), but I smoked the dried bud a few days ago and it's without a doubt the IH cross and not CHxCH. It tastes and looks exactly like the IH#5 bud:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/breeding-for-whorls.63887/page-3#post-1275121
Or second pic in https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/breeding-for-whorls.63887/page-3#post-1283922

What's also in line with the mixup is that what I thought was CH F3 produced some clearly more sativa dom plants than the F2. That's because it was IH F2 in which the ch sativa parts of the (ice x ch) recombined in some plants.

From Feb this year...

Sativied said:

Fastest tri, took her down a couple of days ago. Really shame the bud isn't good enough. Pretty, but like winterized bho nearly smell and tasteless. All the plants I suspect to be IH (ICE x CH) and not CHxCH turned yellow prematurely (like the ICE...) and ended up purple. Not only useless for my breeding project but not really the type of (indica) bud I enjoy smoking either.

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... I stepped into the same boat again...

ICE taste is funky indica. Bit like an og kush or afghani without a distinct taste, bit minty after drying. Very oldskool.
CH taste is dark pungent grape-ish
Chunk taste is Pine
L8N8 taste was sweet haze

I crossed those all with the CH quad.

ICExCH (IH) resulted in still blend bud, maybe a hint of CH-grape in flower.
CHxCH, based on the hempy plant, tastes like CH as one would expect for at least some plants.
ChunkxCH tastes like Pine (very dominant)
L8N8 x CH (Late Night) tastes like CH

TLDR: So it's not just that this one hempy plant from the IH bag turned out as CH, it's that all the plants I've grown from the ch bag have clear signs of ICE in it. I can and should have seen that. Even the P cross (chunk x ch) has more ch traits than the plants from the CHxCH bag.

hiiipower said:

Good on you to ditch the fatty if she's no good lol. Also interested to see what that tall CHf2 pheno does, hopefully doesn't take too long to finish for ya and gives you that haze you want.

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I got a rooted clone of it already, very fast and vigorous, yet honestly I don't expect much of it. Whether that one is from the icexch or CH, if it turns out hazy it's from the CH genes of which I got many CHxCH seeds I apparently haven't even tried except the one in hempy.


Some IH#5 shots from 18 months ago, from before the mixup so actually ICE x CH. In veg the leaves don't differ a lot, but the fat stems and structure does, and it becomes very clear in flower because of the different (non-foxtailing) bud structure.


I know many don't consider it a bad thing but I don't like purple petioles. While some do it clearly genetically, and it can have rather harmless reasons (a few cold nights) it's usually a bad sign and in case of the IH cross goes together with other bad signs, deficiencies, yet any increase in nutes causes it too burn. Exceptional vigorous in veg, but doesn't flower well.




The smaller leaves around the flowers make it obvious already. Duplicates of what I'm growing now. Sharp blades. But also the spiky hairdo (stigmas). CH is more frizzling.

Compare these pics to the ones I posted over the past couple of pages and it will be obvious those are IH plants. The CH is relatively short for a haze hybrid but still more stretchy than the IH.

Clone of one of the CHxCH moms.



I switched to soil too, figured that could perhaps have some influence because that is just not going as smooth for me as hydro, but not that big of a difference.

Looking at these CH pics actually gets me excited to run them.

I still have the bottom part/ lower buds of the bonsai from the CHxCH bag and the hempy plant from the IH bag under T8 to let some more seeds mature and rubbing those frosty buds makes it obvious again I mixed them up.

I got roughly 15 of the IH and some look quite nice so hopefully some will be better than expected. It's a good yielder but that's bitter sweet...





The sativa dom is noticeably progressing daily but I still think it's lacking leaf frost.



On the 11th, black arrow points to leaf that was damaged physically by fan blades.

6 days later, same damaged leaflet in center of pic:

That CHxCH is singing to me. Love the slender leaves and the bud structure/trichome production -- that's a very beautiful plant there.

Hey UW, good to see you around.

I love those narrow leaflets too, not just the look as it has several practical advantages too. Better airflow for example. Also less overlap in a crowded space, as in less leaflets actually touching each other trapping dew in the morning and create a breeding ground for pm. I expect the CHxCH to start out wide but get narrow much faster than the IH plants I got in flower now. Will definitely select more intensly for narrow leaflets from now on.

It's partly why I'm recreating PF2 and on, was so focussed on breeding the taste stable that I apparantly selected towards wider leaflets. The one I called the Swan went from ugly wide indica to beautiful slender leaflets but its offspring stayed too wide too long,

Oh and something positive perhaps about the mixup... the appearantly only CHxCH plant I've grown, the one in the hempy bottle, was tri whorled. The frosty plant above and the shot from the top are from one of the three parents (two females x one whorled male) of the CHxCH, as in Cannalope Haze itself. Got 13 seedlings about to break the soil.

I'm surprised you didn't add light penetration. :) Ya, I'm sort of in the same boat as far as that's concerned, which is probably why I find that plant so nice; I've been throwing out the more squat, fatter leaf indica doms and replacing them with the stretchier sativa doms with more slender 'leaflets' (my bad) -- which aside from the narrower leaflets, tend to have less leafiness overall, which is nice. They just fill the space better, train easier and my partiality for a good sativa high is the icing on the cake.

unwine99 said:

I'm surprised you didn't add light penetration. :)

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Me too :) I did ramble a few times about that earlier in this thread though and is indeed a major contributing reason for wanting more slender leaflets. Light 'and' heat penetration in a heavily cropped crowded grow aiming for long colas.

Entirely agree with the rest of your post too.

And this is why I didn't want to run the IH anymore...



This one I'm going to call the IH5 pheno as it looks a lot like the IH#5 but also hermies around the same stage. Spiky hairdo with round nuggets, not a foxtailer. Icy calyxes early on. It's unfortunately also the pheno that has somewhat of a taste making it somewhat smokeable. I know this because I cleaned the IH#5 nanners for a week or two till I decided to chop off the top parts that hermied. It remained clean after that and still yielded this:


One of IH#5 clean buds:


Did spawn a few more at the end, one in this pic right from the center:



I just went over dozens of close ups from the other plants and they are clean so far, but this one is slightly ahead of the rest too and I'll be surprised if this is a fluke. Will do a pic dump in a bit, the structure of the terminal bud site is turning out great on almost all of them. Very slender leaflets now, all swans. By itself the ICE x CH could have been awesome...