Breeding talk for everyone to understand

[Chad.Westport]

Does the book go into terminology too? S1 f1 and all that? I’m very new to breeding !

Yes, it does. Back cross, IBL, F1 etc but not so much on the whole S1 breeding programs. It does cover selfing, but this technology just wasn't where it is today back then. A newer source may be more complete on that individual subject.

 

[lilnew]

i'm gonna be a spy in here since i don't know nothing about breeding...lol

 

[growsince79]

Here's my 1st question as it applies to what I want to do..

If I use a father plant to pollinate several different female plants of different strains, those F1's would all share the common parent so crossing the desirable female offspring with the father creates the first back cross?... Would it be more beneficial to back cross the F2 generation because of the extended variation? Also because the different F1's share a common parent they are all related in a way right? Crossing those would create a multi hybrid?

I also just ordered that book btw thanks

The problem I have with f2s is you have to grow so many to sort through. Great if you have a greenhouse, but not for small indoor grow.

 

[Chad.Westport]

Here's my 1st question as it applies to what I want to do..

If I use a father plant to pollinate several different female plants of different strains, those F1's would all share the common parent so crossing the desirable female offspring with the father creates the first back cross?... Would it be more beneficial to back cross the F2 generation because of the extended variation? Also because the different F1's share a common parent they are all related in a way right? Crossing those would create a multi hybrid?

I also just ordered that book btw thanks

Awesome, a benefit of how that book explains Mendel and punett squares is that it uses actually strains as an example, so its easier to follow the progress through the various crosses and combinations.

Yes on - would that be a backcross. When you take offspring back to the original parent.

The offspring of F1 line would be bred together to get the F2 line. The F2 line will have a narrower phenotypic expressions than the F1 line, because as you say, they already share many of the same traits. It's just a matter of how they are expressed (dominant / recessive)

 

[Chad.Westport]

So @Chad.Westport if you took s1 fems and did the old CS trick you get s2's and of those 25% would be carry more mother traits 25% father and 50% mixed... is this correct? If so then is there a way to back cross and stabilize those genetics?

There is no father in the S1 equation, so I don't think the same formula would apply. You can get variations with S1 but much more narrow. This is speculation off of what I have read. I haven't gone down the selfing road yet but it is increasingly rising to the top of my "to do" list.

 

[growsince79]

Awesome, a benefit of how that book explains Mendel and punett squares is that it uses actually strains as an example, so its easier to follow the progress through the various crosses and combinations.

Yes on - would that be a backcross. When you take offspring back to the original parent.

The offspring of F1 line would be bred together to get the F2 line. The F2 line will have a narrower phenotypic expressions than the F1 line, because as you say, they already share many of the same traits. It's just a matter of how they are expressed (dominant / recessive)

Thats just the opposite of my experiences. My f2s are always all over the place. F1s fairly uniform.

 

[Chad.Westport]

I've heard back and forth on that too. I think the quantity of plants you can run would be the best test. A minimum of 100 plants is ideal, but I've never been anywhere near that number, neither have most people. With the crosses I have done over the years, I tend to get 3-5 different expressions that I can see with the naked eye, but I guess that really relates to the stability of your starting plants.

F1 strains can also show traits of their parents that weren't in the plant you bred with, this is where I believe the statement of "more variation" comes into play as compared to F2 which would have knocked some of those random combinations out by encouraging more dominant traits to display as homozygous.

 

[Chad.Westport]

I'll always encourage people to make their own seeds. Obviously, don't use a hermie plant, but if you get a male, it's not always a bad thing. You have to start somewhere. The goal may be just to have extra seeds for the future, or you can go into a breeding project and try to lock in traits and add to the vigor. There certainly is no special skills required to let the male plant go and pollinate your plants..... and trust me it will. A little goes a long long way. My male will pollinate the entire room in less than 3 days time after starting to drop pollen. So, I encourage you all to go for it, whether you want to learn the science or not.

 

[kaka]

greg green aka strawdog aka twiggy ...
that mf'er is still around....

 

[Aqua Man]

greg green aka strawdog aka twiggy ...
that mf'er is still around....

Hope ya stick around and help us breeding oblivious grasp the concepts and make informed decisions

 

[amekins]

@Dirtbag @Aqua Man @SequoyahCannabisCo @amekins @Anthem @Grownsince95 @Milson

Thank you, sir.

 

[amekins]

Hey guys / gals. Moving this over here instead of hijacking Aquamans thread.

Last question asked was - how can I learn more and what am I looking for.

Two principles are mandatory for understanding traditional breeding (male to female), the first is genetic inheritance which was best outlined by Gregor Mendel with his pea experiment. Another thing to familiarize yourself with is the Hardy-Weinberg Model.

If you're looking for a great book, but a very dry and science type read, go for :The Cannabis Breeders Bible" by Greg Green

Thank you, Chad! Rolled a joint and pulled up a chair.

 

[Snaggleroots]

Here's what we have sorted so far this season.

We sort with this thing.

Which is completely adjustable

. Always looking to learn something more :)

 

[Grownsince95]

According to my understanding of mendel, the F1 generation is about 50% parental mix, 25% mom dominant and 25% father dominant traits. This works well with distinctly different inbred lines. The subsequent F2 generation will express traits going all the way back to great grandparent generations. With Mendels peas, his parents had purple and white flowers, the F1 generation had all purple flowers. Individuals with white flowers do not appear until the F2 generation where the recessive genes can pair up then we get all the 9:3:3:1 baloney....ooof. If we are hunting specific phenotypes they may not be expressed in an F1?
One of the issues is that mendel was working with monohybrid and not dihybrid crosses so we are not even taking into account incomplete and codominant traits.

Oh man my brain hurts ❤❤

 

[Aqua Man]

According to my understanding of mendel, the F1 generation is about 50% parental mix, 25% mom dominant and 25% father dominant traits. This works well with distinctly different inbred lines. The subsequent F2 generation will express traits going all the way back to great grandparent generations. With Mendels peas, his parents had purple and white flowers, the F1 generation had all purple flowers. Individuals with white flowers do not appear until the F2 generation where the recessive genes can pair up then we get all the 9:3:3:1 baloney....ooof. If we are hunting specific phenotypes they may not be expressed in an F1?
One of the issues is that mendel was working with monohybrid and not dihybrid crosses so we are not even taking into account incomplete and codominant traits.

Oh man my brain hurts ❤❤

This why I have avoided this topic for so long.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Like I said in my thread its a dirty business full of politics. I just don't fully understand the depth. But wow

Why would anyone trust anyone in an industry run by ex drug dealers and corperate investors?

 

[Aqua Man]

Why would anyone trust anyone in an industry run by ex drug dealers and corperate investors?

I guess we have no choice really.

 

[growsince79]

According to my understanding of mendel, the F1 generation is about 50% parental mix, 25% mom dominant and 25% father dominant traits. This works well with distinctly different inbred lines. The subsequent F2 generation will express traits going all the way back to great grandparent generations. With Mendels peas, his parents had purple and white flowers, the F1 generation had all purple flowers. Individuals with white flowers do not appear until the F2 generation where the recessive genes can pair up then we get all the 9:3:3:1 baloney....ooof. If we are hunting specific phenotypes they may not be expressed in an F1?
One of the issues is that mendel was working with monohybrid and not dihybrid crosses so we are not even taking into account incomplete and codominant traits.

Oh man my brain hurts ❤❤

That f2 pheno hunt would require 100s or thousands of plants to find your champions and really do it right. For the average small indoor gardener, all we can do is chuck pollen hope to get lucky.

 

[amekins]

i'm gonna be a spy in here since i don't know nothing about breeding...lol

Pull up a chair next to me.

 

[Grownsince95]

That's why I want to send everyone in this thread twenty F2 sees to grow out! We will find the winners!!