Breeding talk for everyone to understand

[Chad.Westport]

Hey guys / gals. Moving this over here instead of hijacking Aquamans thread.

Last question asked was - how can I learn more and what am I looking for.

Two principles are mandatory for understanding traditional breeding (male to female), the first is genetic inheritance which was best outlined by Gregor Mendel with his pea experiment. Another thing to familiarize yourself with is the Hardy-Weinberg Model.

If you're looking for a great book, but a very dry and science type read, go for :The Cannabis Breeders Bible" by Greg Green

 

[Chad.Westport]

@Dirtbag @Aqua Man @SequoyahCannabisCo @amekins @Anthem @Grownsince95 @Milson

 

[Hortulanus]

Pulling up a chair.

 

[Chad.Westport]

Now if you have a large enough budget, you are mapping the genome and learning which alleles turn functions on or off, or what type of expression they represent. The science is getting greater everyday, but this is nothing that will be available to the home breeder. This is how plants will be patented. Specific genetic markers and by chemotype. In their world, there is no such thing as Sativa or indica.

 

[Aqua Man]

Thank @Chad.Westport.

Tagging ppl involved.
@Dirtbag @lilnew @Grownsince95 @Anthem @amekins @SequoyahCannabisCo @Akabudz @Milson @BurnzYzBudZz @dire wolf @Pondracer @Moshmen and I'm sure @Frankster would enjoy this.

Hope I didn't miss anyone.

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok and we are off. I appreciate the help here @Chad.Westport I have ordered that book and looking forward to finally understanding what I have tried to avoid for a long time now.

 

[Grownsince95]

Now if you have a large enough budget, you are mapping the genome and learning which alleles turn functions on or off, or what type of expression they represent. The science is getting greater everyday, but this is nothing that will be available to the home breeder. This is how plants will be patented. Specific genetic markers and by chemotype. In their world, there is no such thing as Sativa or indica.

I was just reading about a company called phylos that was claiming to map cannabis genetics for people, like 23 and me for weed lol but then pivoted and starting using the info for their own breeding...now that big agro is involved its all going to go to shit

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

Pulling up a chair.

Seriously. I’m a sponge to breeding

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

Ok and we are off. I appreciate the help here @Chad.Westport I have ordered that book and looking forward to finally understanding what I have tried to avoid for a long time now.

Literally me rn

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

Ok and we are off. I appreciate the help here @Chad.Westport I have ordered that book and looking forward to finally understanding what I have tried to avoid for a long time now.

Yoooo this came out in 2004.....? Do you think this is a little dated?

 

[Aqua Man]

Yoooo this came out in 2004.....? Do you think this is a little dated?

Not until other science proves it wrong. In most of the studies i read some are from the 40's and 50's and still ring true. It's good to also understand the evolution of the science and in terms of science i would say its still fairly new. Basics first before you can understand the rest.

 

[Chad.Westport]

Phylos is a great thing gone wrong.

They were looking at a few of the genetic markers of plants and mapping them in the "galaxy" in order to establish linear connections between strains. This is a great concept but slightly flawed in the fact that the person who bought the sour diesel clone, which really isn't sour diesel, who sends in his sample to get mapped has labeled it as sour diesel. Strains like that have been entered dozens of times by different growers and you can see the variation. Is everything was a true sour diesel, they would almost overlap each other. But that anomaly aside, it gives a path people can use to try and understand traits and breed with that info.

They are cutting edge, doing important stuff that no one else was and very few currently are. That excited many growers because if your intellectual property is in the public domain and someone (big corps) try and patent that strain when it goes federally legal, you have a legal argument that it is yours and can be demonstrated through this testing and being in the public domain with a timestamp. Who wouldn't want to potentially protect themselves in the future from something like that? So many top breeders sent them samples of rare genetic material, something that would never normally happen.

Where phylos went wrong and earned the scorn of most breeders is that they said they would never sell this information to big AG. They said that phylos would never begin there own breeding programs using this data. Thats a pretty big deal and why many of the very tight fisted breeders sent material to be mapped. Phylos was saying this up until they got caught by a leaked video at a closed door business / investor conference where they were pitching the sale of this info to big AG and they announced they were beginning their own breeding service. So, they stabbed everyone in the back for money, but thats business for ya.

 

[Aqua Man]

So @Chad.Westport if you took s1 fems and did the old CS trick you get s2's and of those 25% would be carry more mother traits 25% father and 50% mixed... is this correct? If so then is there a way to back cross and stabilize those genetics?

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

Not until other science proves it wrong. In most of the studies i read some are from the 40's and 50's and still ring true. It's good to also understand the evolution of the science and in terms of science i would say its still fairly new. Basics first before you can understand the rest.

Very true, and Gregg green is dope. I usually follow Ed rose and Jorge Cervantes. But I’d strongly say Green is #3 in reputation. Grow bible is amazing!

 

[Chad.Westport]

Yoooo this came out in 2004.....? Do you think this is a little dated?

In some ways yes. The talk about autos is that the industry isn't there, they can't be trusted, low yields etc. It does talk a lot about different formulas to use to reverse plants though. I think its a good overview for people who want to do traditional breeding or want to understand how to select for various traits in Cannabis.

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

Phylos is a great thing gone wrong.

They were looking at a few of the genetic markers of plants and mapping them in the "galaxy" in order to establish linear connections between strains. This is a great concept but slightly flawed in the fact that the person who bought the sour diesel clone, which really isn't sour diesel, who sends in his sample to get mapped has labeled it as sour diesel. Strains like that have been entered dozens of times by different growers and you can see the variation. Is everything was a true sour diesel, they would almost overlap each other. But that anomaly aside, it gives a path people can use to try and understand traits and breed with that info.

They are cutting edge, doing important stuff that no one else was and very few currently are. That excited many growers because if your intellectual property is in the public domain and someone (big corps) try and patent that strain when it goes federally legal, you have a legal argument that it is yours and can be demonstrated through this testing and being in the public domain with a timestamp. Who wouldn't want to potentially protect themselves in the future from something like that? So many top breeders sent them samples of rare genetic material, something that would never normally happen.

Where phylos went wrong and earned the scorn of most breeders is that they said they would never sell this information to big AG. They said that phylos would never begin there own breeding programs using this data. Thats a pretty big deal and why many of the very tight fisted breeders sent material to be mapped. Phylos was saying this up until they got caught by a leaked video at a closed door business / investor conference where they were pitching the sale of this info to big AG and they announced they were beginning their own breeding service. So, they stabbed everyone in the back for money, but thats business for ya.

I feel like that’s why the industry is tryna move to narrow,,broad, etc.

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

In some ways yes. The talk about autos is that the industry isn't there, they can't be trusted, low yields etc. It does talk a lot about different formulas to use to reverse plants though. I think its a good overview for people who want to do traditional breeding or want to understand how to select for various traits in Cannabis.

Appreciate that! And it seems like a good read!

 

[SacredTreeOrganicFarms]

In some ways yes. The talk about autos is that the industry isn't there, they can't be trusted, low yields etc. It does talk a lot about different formulas to use to reverse plants though. I think its a good overview for people who want to do traditional breeding or want to understand how to select for various traits in Cannabis.

Does the book go into terminology too? S1 f1 and all that? I’m very new to breeding !

 

[Aqua Man]

Phylos is a great thing gone wrong.

They were looking at a few of the genetic markers of plants and mapping them in the "galaxy" in order to establish linear connections between strains. This is a great concept but slightly flawed in the fact that the person who bought the sour diesel clone, which really isn't sour diesel, who sends in his sample to get mapped has labeled it as sour diesel. Strains like that have been entered dozens of times by different growers and you can see the variation. Is everything was a true sour diesel, they would almost overlap each other. But that anomaly aside, it gives a path people can use to try and understand traits and breed with that info.

They are cutting edge, doing important stuff that no one else was and very few currently are. That excited many growers because if your intellectual property is in the public domain and someone (big corps) try and patent that strain when it goes federally legal, you have a legal argument that it is yours and can be demonstrated through this testing and being in the public domain with a timestamp. Who wouldn't want to potentially protect themselves in the future from something like that? So many top breeders sent them samples of rare genetic material, something that would never normally happen.

Where phylos went wrong and earned the scorn of most breeders is that they said they would never sell this information to big AG. They said that phylos would never begin there own breeding programs using this data. Thats a pretty big deal and why many of the very tight fisted breeders sent material to be mapped. Phylos was saying this up until they got caught by a leaked video at a closed door business / investor conference where they were pitching the sale of this info to big AG and they announced they were beginning their own breeding service. So, they stabbed everyone in the back for money, but thats business for ya.

Like I said in my thread its a dirty business full of politics. I just don't fully understand the depth. But wow

 

[Grownsince95]

Here's my 1st question as it applies to what I want to do..

If I use a father plant to pollinate several different female plants of different strains, those F1's would all share the common parent so crossing the desirable female offspring with the father creates the first back cross?... Would it be more beneficial to back cross the F2 generation because of the extended variation? Also because the different F1's share a common parent they are all related in a way right? Crossing those would create a multi hybrid?

I also just ordered that book btw thanks