Building a 4x6 hidden room

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budderfly

budderfly

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I can't help but wonder what sort of security issue would stop you from growing inside your house but unhidden- and yet hiding the grow in the same place makes sense. Not my business, just curious.

The advice you've gotten already sounds top notch, and way over my head! I'm taking notes for when the time might come for me to get quiet.

Good luck and I'll be subbed for the action!


To be honest, we would much rather set up in another spot, but unfortunately we had some financial set backs and that doesn't seem attainable at the moment.

I've been a bit coy about the "security issue". Bottom line is the police paid us a visit last year and we haven't grown since.

Some of you will undoubtedly, and perhaps rightfully, call me crazy for growing in the same spot. That's why the exceptional focus on stealth.

My goal is literally to be able have the room go undiscovered during execution of a search warrant, if that were to happen. We really doubt that will happen - it's been nearly a year since our visit - but better safe than sorry. Realistically, I don't see the task force having the funds or attention span to be looking back at us a year later just in case I'm up to something again. They have plenty of leads to follow and work mainly off of tips - they had one on me last year due to a stupid security lapse on my part that will never happen again, and the person responsible (and every last one of his friends/associates) has been 100% extricated from my life for over a year.

As soon as it's financially viable we will be getting a trailer to outfit and parking it in some industrial storage type space.

Anyway, picked up the Roxul insulation today. I wasn't sure if the Safe'n'Sound or ComfortBatt would be better, but only the Safe'n'Sound was advertised as a sound-proofing material - it's just that the Safe'n'Sound has an R-value of 0.

Here's a pic, it's no heavier (not noticeably) than standard fiberglass batts. Each pack is 48 feet long (twelve 47" batts) and costs $35. For $150 I will be able to insulate each of the four walls and triple layer the ceiling and I'll still have leftovers in case I need to make a fan box or duct muffler.

Roxul
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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i wish i had a basement.... that would be the ultimate for me.... looking good there budderfly..

Basements are Da Bomb for growing indoors; insulated, quiet, out sight n out of mind.

To be honest, we would much rather set up in another spot, but unfortunately we had some financial set backs and that doesn't seem attainable at the moment.

I've been a bit coy about the "security issue". Bottom line is the police paid us a visit last year and we haven't grown since.

Some of you will undoubtedly, and perhaps rightfully, call me crazy for growing in the same spot. That's why the exceptional focus on stealth.

My goal is literally to be able have the room go undiscovered during execution of a search warrant, if that were to happen. We really doubt that will happen - it's been nearly a year since our visit - but better safe than sorry. Realistically, I don't see the task force having the funds or attention span to be looking back at us a year later just in case I'm up to something again. They have plenty of leads to follow and work mainly off of tips - they had one on me last year due to a stupid security lapse on my part that will never happen again, and the person responsible (and every last one of his friends/associates) has been 100% extricated from my life for over a year.

As soon as it's financially viable we will be getting a trailer to outfit and parking it in some industrial storage type space.

Anyway, picked up the Roxul insulation today. I wasn't sure if the Safe'n'Sound or ComfortBatt would be better, but only the Safe'n'Sound was advertised as a sound-proofing material - it's just that the Safe'n'Sound has an R-value of 0.

Here's a pic, it's no heavier (not noticeably) than standard fiberglass batts. Each pack is 48 feet long (twelve 47" batts) and costs $35. For $150 I will be able to insulate each of the four walls and triple layer the ceiling and I'll still have leftovers in case I need to make a fan box or duct muffler.

Damn, I could've saved you a lot of work; the cops need a lot more than a 'sneaking suspicion' that you 'might' be up to something; they need probable cause to get a warrant, and that means snitch, tip or stupid slip. Sounds to me like you've effectively dealt with the real security issue, that is, your old associate. Just the fact that there WAS something in a place is NOT probable cause that something IS going on there now.

Your space will NOT be safe from police as designed, since any drug dog will smell the room just by the entrance. Even if you carry nothing at all, your scent is still all over the pathway into the room- and just try to completely remove all trace of smell from yourself after working with these girls, lol... As designed, your space will be safe only from friends and neighbors who have no idea what's going on.

I'm guessing you are in a medical state- because if not, you'd likely be in jail or on probation, in which case I definitely wouldn't be trying any stealth rooms, since standard terms of probation include the right to search your person, property or residence at any time without a warrant. If you are in a medical state, registration is likely to afford you at least as much, if not more protection than a stealth room.

Finally, I don't think the work you're putting in is wasted, but might I suggest an alternate use as a safe room? It might not prevent someone from breaking into it- but an intruder would have to know about it to find it, or anyone hiding inside...
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
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Hmmm... I actually neglected to consider a drug dog.. You make some good points. Being able to use it as a safe room did occur to us.

We do also need to keep it concealed from family and children, so it's not just a legal issue. Though I'll have to refrain from disclosing any more about that I think.

I will say, though, that security comes in layers. I see the room as a layer, maybe not impenetrable in and of itself, but in combination with other layers leads to better overall security - from police, rippers, nosy family, children, the hvac guy if needed for example - whoever. It's the only spot in my house, save maybe the attic (but that sucks let's face it), that I can truly hide anything like this. Anywhere else would be behind a visible locked door at best, and those days of half a basement full of plants are simply over for us now.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
As one layer in an overall plan of security and stealth, your room should be fine, then. Clearly, you've done quite a bit of thinking about this, forgive me for rushing to conclusions.
 
SodaLicious

SodaLicious

533
43
When I was young, and first starting down this path, I convinved my father that I could take care of his finacial woes with a little room. We built a secret room off a closet in the basement. When he moved and sold the house we screwed it shut and finished the drywall mud and tape on that wall. I went back home for a visit at christmas and one of my old friends was renting an apartment in the building this secret room was built. It so happened the room was off one of his closets, still drywalled shut. I told him the story and he didn't belive me, I told him to go get his drill and exacto knife. Low and behold it was there. Now he is growing for himself in this very space.
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
18
When I was young, and first starting down this path, I convinved my father that I could take care of his finacial woes with a little room. We built a secret room off a closet in the basement. When he moved and sold the house we screwed it shut and finished the drywall mud and tape on that wall. I went back home for a visit at christmas and one of my old friends was renting an apartment in the building this secret room was built. It so happened the room was off one of his closets, still drywalled shut. I told him the story and he didn't belive me, I told him to go get his drill and exacto knife. Low and behold it was there. Now he is growing for himself in this very space.

That's awesome! If we ever (hopefully) move into a larger house, this one will most likely end up occupied by my father and he will continue to use the room, he calls it his 420k plan. :)


As one layer in an overall plan of security and stealth, your room should be fine, then. Clearly, you've done quite a bit of thinking about this, forgive me for rushing to conclusions.

Nothing to forgive. I post because I need others reality checking me. I get so enthusiastic to get a grow going again that I can easily overlook things. I'm also a newb when it comes to this kind of construction; I've got some experience building but purely as a hobby and more with cabinets and speakerboxes etc.
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
18
I've been pretty busy working my day job this week. Thought I'd post anyway as long as I'm logged into Tor.

The good thing about working is that I got paid and was able to order the rest of the supplies I need.

Put an order in for 16 tubes of Green Glue and 7 tubes of their acoustical sealant (to caulk the seams with) at www.soundisolationstore.com


Got a Solis Tek 1000w ballast at Amazon. There's a fancier Solis Tek, with a timer and remote, but I don't really need that. Beyond the timer and remote, the two are the same and boast some impressive features. Additionally, in this not-quite-big-enough space I don't know if 1kw will work, but with the Solis Tek I can run 600w bulbs or even turn my 1kw bulb down to 600w.

Last order was with www.horticulturesource.com. They have a huge selection and usually the lowest price I can find on everything, except for duct mufflers or PL-L fixtures which I get at www.htgsupply.com.

Anyway from horticulturesource I got my 8x24 Phresh filter (this is the biggest one you can have UPS or FedEx'd, anything larger requires LTL shipping - though I will say their price is still competitive for the larger filters with shipping). I also got pH calibration and electrode cleaning solution - my EcoTstr 2 pH and EC meters are kinda old and haven't been used in a year, but I'm hoping they'll still work. For nutes I've always gone with Botanicare (I just grow in soil, Fox Farms Ocean Forrest or Sunshine Advanced Mix #4) - I use their PureBlend Pro Grow and Soil Bloom, Silica Blast, Cal-Mag, Liquid Karma, and this time I'll be trying their Strapped too. Round the order out with some Rootech cloning Gel and Root Riot Plugs (I get 98%+ success with this in a standard 10"x20" tray and dome), and lastly a plain socket for some vertical love. :)

I'll put together a price list at the end, but I'm a bit over $1200 into it right now. Still need to get drywall and paint.

I've been thinking a lot about how I'm going to do the ceiling and soffit around the vents with respect to soundproofing, and how to hide the double wall. I'll admit this isn't easy stuff for me to figure out, it's often not obvious to me.

Anyway, last I'll just throw in a pic of the beast that will be ripping down my 2x4's, nice fat Milwaukee miter saw on an extremely handy Rigid portable stand. :D

Miter saw
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
Me likie, me likie... I'm definitely taking notes on all of the stealth bits and how to install them!
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
18
I've spent some time diddling in SketchUp. I should've been working. It's all starting to shape up in my head.

I laid out some frame for a soffit around the vents. It is 3.5" deep underneath and on the side of the vents so that I can fill the space with Roxul. I brace the 2x4's against the existing wall studs, should be nice and rigid.

Soffits open



The front of the soffit frame overlaps the wall, with a 1/2" gap. The first layer over the frame will be OSB all around the room so that I can easily screw the drywall and future shelving & fixtures anywhere. The walls will all be a layer of 1/2" OSB and two layers of 5/8" Type-X drywall (Green Glued), the ceiling and the walls of the soffit will all be a layer of OSB and three layers of 5/8" drywall.

Some may worry about OSB off gassing formaldehyde but I just happen to have a bunch that's been in my garage for 2 years. It'll be sandwiched between drywall and roxul insulation anyway.

Soffit osb



There's a 4.5" gap between the fake wall and the inner wall. The inner wall will be covered with a 1" rigid foam insulation to help prevent a warm wall that might be visible on a thermal camera. The fake wall will be covered with 1/2" cement board and drywall - and behind that a solid layer of 5/8" Type-X drywall Green Glued on. This should leave space for a panel of the fake wall to push in and slide between the fake and inner walls.


Here's a shot of the whole frame.

Full frame



And a shot minus the fake wall but with the vents and pipes running along the joists.


Inner box



The interior foot print after all the walls are up should be 4'x6' dead on the nuts.


I also decided I'm going to order acoustic egg crate foam and make my own duct mufflers, as well as line the existing ducts in both directions from where I tap the intake (from the return) and the exhaust (into the supply). I'll put foam on the top and bottom of the ducts, but I think leave the sides bare (they recommend like 70% coverage anyway). Should be good and quiet that way - using insulated duct with a corner or two into a muffler and out into foam lined duct.


I'm still trying to decide if I want the door on the short part of the wall or the tall part of the wall.

I was thinking short but I don't know? Anyone have an opinion?
 
SodaLicious

SodaLicious

533
43
Keep in mind you should maintain a 1" air gap between your forced air duct and any combustibles.
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
18
Sorry for the lack of progress folks. It's about to kick into high gear this week though. Though I'd drop in and show you the magnets I got to hold the false panel in:


RE22CS-PL.jpg



I was able to find countersunk magnets in a variety of sizes, circular and rectangular. Circular is easy to countersink in wood (spade bit). Not sure what strength I really need, so these sizes are a starting guess.


I also cancelled my egg crate foam order and decided to simply buy the duct mufflers. It turns out that 12"-8" and 10"-6" reducers are crazy expensive ($20 each) so it's actually more expensive to build one. Also, Phat makes some better (imho) mufflers that use glass pack instead of foam. The foam has an expected life of about 5 years (probably less used in the exhaust of a grow, lol), whereas the glass pack should last much longer.

I decided the egg crate wasn't appropriate to line my hvac ducts with, since it would need replacing maybe 5 years or less down the road. There are products to line ducts with, but I cannot find them for purchase in small quantities.
 
LordDankinstien

LordDankinstien

517
28
The dry wall you want is called sound break xp, it's expensive but it's the best sound dampening drywall there is.
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
18
The dry wall you want is called sound break xp, it's expensive but it's the best sound dampening drywall there is.

I'm familiar with Sound Break XP.

5/8" thick gypsum board consists of a layer of viscoelastic damping polymer sandwiched between two pieces of high density mold resistant gypsum board

I'll already be using a viscoelastic damping polymer (Green Glue) sandwiched between two pieces of Gypsum board.

Generally, you would either use a wall board like Sound Break or you would use two more standard pieces of board with Green Glue or similar. The gain in STC from using both usually wouldn't be worth the cost - the Sound Break comes at a high premium (as does Green Glue), and either solution is usually enough on its own as there will be other areas (like ducting) that will have much lower STC than your walls.


The drywall I am thinking of getting to make my sandwich with is Gold Bond® e2XP® Interior Extreme® IR Gypsum Panel

expintextr_ir.jpg


Gold Bond® BRAND e2XP® Interior Extreme® IR Gypsum Panel is an impact, moisture and mold resistant gypsum panel designed for interior applications requiring increased resistance to incidental moisture and wall penetrations.

e2XP Interior Extreme IR is manufactured with an enhanced abuse, impact, moisture and mold resistant gypsum core and facer. The facer is composed of a coated fiberglass mat which provides superior abrasion and moisture resistant capabilities. A fiberglass mesh is embedded into the core, close to the back of the board to provide impact/penetration resistance. It is produced in a 5/8" thickness with a Fire-Shield® Type X core.
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
18
Ok its been a while since I've updated, so this will be a long post (or several, lots of pics).

I ended up finding a local place that sells a similar acoustic duct liner by the linear foot in 48" width (instead of by the 100' roll, lol I need like 10').

Wait til you guys see how I hookup the ventilation it'll be off the hook I promise.


Ok, so when we left off I had just removed the workbench from the wall. I removed all the studs except for two - one with the outlet in the way (I can't kill the power right now long story), and the one next to it partly because it's got a bunch of hammered over ramsets and partly because I can line it up and reuse it.

1 bench apart



There was a bunch of holes in the block where I removed and ground off ramsets.

2 ramset holes



Since it's a below grade wall I thought I should get hydraulic cement to patch with, but the only bucket I saw is a shit load of cement. I only used like 2 or 3 cups.

3 hydraulic cement



First time ever working with concrete so it's a pretty mediocre job. The stuff set really fast and the water ratio they listed was totally not enough.

4 holes patched



While that dried I worked on the bench. I was going to take the studs off the bench, but it was just not happening without destroying it.

So I'm sawing a couple down to mate to the two studs on the wall. It came out sorta close, I don't have a good finished shot, but it's not even close to a perfect line up. It's ok though because it'll be covered by pegboard later. I'm going to have to shim the front too because the floor is sloped different. The bench is a pain but I have to keep it so the room looks close to the same (and its a very useful 8' bench).

5 track saw




That's a Eurekazone track saw rail. A table saw isn't that practical for me but these rails and a circular saw and I can slice up sheet goods with ease. I also have an attachment for my router which helps do dado's and circles etc.

It's so important to have good tools if you're doing serious DIY. The right tool makes every step safer and smoother. I don't have a SDS hammer drill, just a drill with the "hammer" feature and I'm paying for it trying to drill into the foundation with stripped and bottomed tapcons and burning up bits. It's one of very few tools I lack here thankfully.


6 sawing studs


Dust collection is important, too. People live here. It's going well so far, not much stray sawdust.


Here's the extension I'm building off the wall under the stairs. This wall is leaning pretty hard. Tried to use a plum to mark down and was off half a foot.

7 wall extension



It's attached to the joists above.

8 extension top 1



Had to jigsaw a little curve around the duct.

9 extension top 2


Next up I covered the block wall with a solid sheet of XPS insulation. If this was a normal finished space I'd use 1.5" or 2" but I'm fighting every inch so I went with 1". My basement if very temperate and dry, great environment to work with.

I kept stepping on the stuff and nicking the tongue and groove. ugh.

10 cutting foam



I just used a T square and a utility knife to score the sheet. Then snap it and it's clean enough.

11 snapping foam



When you glue it you want to create a grid to prevent any air circulation, even in a sub-inch gap behind the insulation. I may have used way too much glue idk, I definitely underestimated and had to make a emergency Depot run.

12 gluing foam




Here's a base plate about to go down. I drilled through the stud and floor. Putting the screws through a bit helps line it up to the holes. Generous with the glue, want to make a good seal to seal thermal and acoustic gaps.

13 gluing base plate



I drilled a 2" hole in for the fake PVC drain pipe going to the floor. Brand new hole saw. What a disaster! It kept getting gummed up and smoking probably toxic who knows what eeks. Pretty much destroyed the saw in one hole, barely made it through.

15 burnt hole saw



Here's the plate down and secured. Like I said, I'm having trouble making good holes and the tapcons aren't holding great, but once the glue sets it really doesn't matter I guess.

14 base plate down



And here's where it sits now. Got some stuff propped against the insulation to keep pressure on while the glue sets. The part of the wall that's framed is where the secret entrance will be.

16 days end



Enjoy that for now; I'm pouring every minute into the room right now and will update after I have a bunch more pics. :)
 
budderfly

budderfly

38
18
I haven't been updating here as often, doesn't seem to be much interest on this build on the farm. Prove me wrong. :)

Here's the duct liner I got, it'll go inside the main hvac trunks.

Duct liner




Here's the cable I'm running for power. It's 50' 10/3 AC. It says 40 amps, but 10ga should only be 30 I think - which is way more than this little room would ever need. Cable was like $93, 10/3 50' NM was about $80 so I think the AC was a good deal.

Running cable 1



Running it over the wall to the panel in the next room.

Running cable 2




Running cable 3




Made some blocking to attach the wall to. With the fake wall I'm trying to make it hard to peer through any gaps.

Had to make a cutout for a water line tap, the tap goes to a whole house humidifier but that doesn't work anyway. It will still be accessible anyway.


Blocking



Cutout stud



Framing



Here's the finished frame with the middle stud in the doorway; I'm leaving it out while I build - it'll go in at the end but be easily removable if I need to get something large in or out.


Finished frame




And with the cement board and drywall up.


Finished wall
 
Papa

Papa

Supporter
2,474
163
in the future, your bottom plates should be pressure-treated lumber, or place a moisture barrier between the concrete and lumber . . . to address future rot and mold issues from moisture wicking up from the concrete..
 

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