Organikz said:

@jumpincactus

I hate to get off topic but that guy earlier after I stated science that's indeed backed regarding terpenoid activation from the presence of certain enzymes...wtf man...he said he's grown organic because he used a GO box. I had to at least let him know good try on that argument but he didnt understand that's stabilized. You get 0 enzyme transfer. Actually the reverse because of preservatives killing enzymes. Why do all these guys really think they understand soil biology? None of them are familiar with any important topics any grower should understand, source and sink, sugar signaling, soil solution chemistry...just basic shit.

Yet they've all done organic growing. Wetdog said it and I'll say it here and now...there is no water only soil that will allow a plant to express it's full genetic potential. Guys don't understand all the goodies are locked inside. For instance rooting hormones is the biggest marketing scheme of all time. Any plant that carries heavy apical dominance contains rooting hormone. Sicilic acid unlocks it.

If you allow a.tomatoe plant to vine across the ground for instance it will.take root in multiple spots giving access to more nutrients.

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heisenbubble said:

Not sure why your talking shit?Your plants look like hammered ass.There probably 2 months old and 12 inches tall.All the crap you pour on em They look burnt up worse than if you was pouring out miracle grow.
You need to step back son and think about what your saying.I used the GO BOX as well as grown in 100 percent compost.I was growing beans and tomatoes in chicken shit before you was born.
If you think the differences between what you grow is better than thats good,But i can tell you i dont care how you grow your plant if its sick or unhealthy the quality will suffer.
One other important aspect is genetics.You can take a heirloom variety and grow in bag dirt and a market varity and grow it in the most organic no till bed in the world but the heirloom is always going to taste and look better than the market.there are way to many variables besides just coconut juice and compost teas.I was saying all that is alot of work and you got offended.Well it is alot of work.Look at your plants,All the crap you got em in and they still look like ass.Maybe thats why you took it personal not sure.

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Organikz said:

You really can't sit and talk about what you don't understand. Same goes to you. It takes time to build soil biology in a closed system. My plants are doing just fine from my house. Lol. You dont need to tell me.the health of my plants just because the light setup i just changed to wasn't set right. So I guess you just jump into any system and environment and your plants are flawless.

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jumpincactus said:

Thanks for keeping it respectable @heisenbubble & @Organikz We can and all do use various methods with great success. I appreciate you both keeping it civil and not escalating into a major pissin match. We are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs over what style and system we use. At the end of the day find what worx for you and run with it.

I would have to agree with @Organikz I personally have great success with living soil and ROLS. There isnt anyway yet that any man made system is going to bring out the full genetic potential of a plants genes like "living soil". The world beneath our feet is another universe just waiting to be tapped into. Nothing coming out of any of those fancy bottles with all the forced over feeding some folks do can compare to what Momma nature provides with a well balanced soil biology. Even most honest scientists will tell you we are just now starting to scratch the surface of the soilberg so to speak and there is so much more to understand with soil biology. I always chuckle when someone knocks organic based growing and are so smug with arrogance that they have shit figured out that the natural system has taken millions of years to perfect. "Quorum Sensing" anyone. Bet you cant buy that shit in a bottle.

In closing at @heisenbubble . I know more than a few farmers that run living soil in perpetual runs indoors and they have NO pest issues worth mentioning. Wanna know the secret? Great well balanced aged living soil firing on all cyclinders, with a array of the correct predators and nematodes and mineral inputs coupled with a solid IPM. Most of the average growers dont even understand what a solid IPM is. This is why we always see so many requests for help in the infirmary forum. Do all these things and understand what your doing and it can and is a beautiful thing. :D Just the way Mother Earth intended.:cool::smoking:

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Organikz said:

Here's how to make the BIM. Mix the 2 and you have EM1. If you think about it local bacterium is most effective against pests in your area.

------------Materials needed-------------
---rice (brown or white)
---jar with lid( i use 1 quart mason wide mouth jar)
---milk (any kind, but raw works best)
---strainer( i use a metal one from the grocery store really cheap)
---molasses(optional)
--- a 1 gallon container (optional....depending on if you want/need to make a lot )



follow these easy instructions below.



Now let me take the collection method and split it up some.

Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air.

1.Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like plastic pot with lid.

---basically get some rice, get a jar, put rice and clean fresh water no chlorine and such. shake till the water turns foggy, strain into another jar.

2.Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely.

---like it says, the AIR is key as the air is full of microbes including lactic acid bacteria. just in low low concentrations but along with tons of other microbes, thats why were making more of them. i used a mason jar and had a gap with the lid.

3.Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C.

--- i put mine in a closet, the temp is more stable in there and doesn't have much variation. wait 7 days, youll see a thin layer of something on top.

4. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid.

---like said you will see a thin layer of something( also remember everyone will collect different microbes, as we all live in different places, so your collecting microbes adapted to YOUR area, which makes this work even better.)

5. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk isbest.

--- now just get something, anything to measure. either it be a spoon, a cup, a tablespoon, 1/4 cup doesnt matter( except the fact this will tell you how much you will have when done) ill use 1/4 cup for example. take one 1/4c of your microbes, now add 10 of them with milk.

6. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals.

--- now a week has gone by, by this time the milk will look like cheese at the top of the jar/container. but all goopy. you can either strain it or if you used a wide mouth jar, tip sideways slightly and you can slide a spoon under and take it all out at once. toss it in the compost pile and forget about it. ive never fed it to an animal so i dont know about that. edit: my chickens LOVE this stuff!!!

7. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive.

-- this is where everyone seems to be getting mixed up. the sugars are just for food. like you, they are organisms that need food. without it they will die and im pretty sure ( but could be wrong) that lacto b. isnt cannibalistic lol. now since your only making enough to use now, you dont really need to store any imo. unless you plan to use more in the next few days to a week add some sugar. now with the fridge and sugars it says "or" which is the key word. it says "the sugars keep them alive at room temperature" but like i said i always use it fresh, its cheap, and easy to make, and doesn't need to be applied every time. so why save some and take chances of using liquid with nothing alive or not nearly as many as the fresh stuff?

8. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals.

--- now that you have your culture, we go back to the measuring thing. so this is where you decide how much you really need. 1/4 cup + twenty 1/4 cups = 5 1/4cups. then your going to add that at 2-4 tablespoons per GALLON and then apply. so 5 1/4 cups in tablespoons is about 84 tablespoons. you can see where that is going. it adds up to a lot of final liquid to apply. so its easy to make enough for your needs with some basic math.

9. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help.

Try it out and report back!

Click to expand...

Organikz said:

Here's how to make the BIM. Mix the 2 and you have EM1. If you think about it local bacterium is most effective against pests in your area.

------------Materials needed-------------
---rice (brown or white)
---jar with lid( i use 1 quart mason wide mouth jar)
---milk (any kind, but raw works best)
---strainer( i use a metal one from the grocery store really cheap)
---molasses(optional)
--- a 1 gallon container (optional....depending on if you want/need to make a lot )



follow these easy instructions below.



Now let me take the collection method and split it up some.

Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air.

1.Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like plastic pot with lid.

---basically get some rice, get a jar, put rice and clean fresh water no chlorine and such. shake till the water turns foggy, strain into another jar.

2.Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely.

---like it says, the AIR is key as the air is full of microbes including lactic acid bacteria. just in low low concentrations but along with tons of other microbes, thats why were making more of them. i used a mason jar and had a gap with the lid.

3.Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C.

--- i put mine in a closet, the temp is more stable in there and doesn't have much variation. wait 7 days, youll see a thin layer of something on top.

4. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid.

---like said you will see a thin layer of something( also remember everyone will collect different microbes, as we all live in different places, so your collecting microbes adapted to YOUR area, which makes this work even better.)

5. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk isbest.

--- now just get something, anything to measure. either it be a spoon, a cup, a tablespoon, 1/4 cup doesnt matter( except the fact this will tell you how much you will have when done) ill use 1/4 cup for example. take one 1/4c of your microbes, now add 10 of them with milk.

6. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals.

--- now a week has gone by, by this time the milk will look like cheese at the top of the jar/container. but all goopy. you can either strain it or if you used a wide mouth jar, tip sideways slightly and you can slide a spoon under and take it all out at once. toss it in the compost pile and forget about it. ive never fed it to an animal so i dont know about that. edit: my chickens LOVE this stuff!!!

7. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive.

-- this is where everyone seems to be getting mixed up. the sugars are just for food. like you, they are organisms that need food. without it they will die and im pretty sure ( but could be wrong) that lacto b. isnt cannibalistic lol. now since your only making enough to use now, you dont really need to store any imo. unless you plan to use more in the next few days to a week add some sugar. now with the fridge and sugars it says "or" which is the key word. it says "the sugars keep them alive at room temperature" but like i said i always use it fresh, its cheap, and easy to make, and doesn't need to be applied every time. so why save some and take chances of using liquid with nothing alive or not nearly as many as the fresh stuff?

8. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals.

--- now that you have your culture, we go back to the measuring thing. so this is where you decide how much you really need. 1/4 cup + twenty 1/4 cups = 5 1/4cups. then your going to add that at 2-4 tablespoons per GALLON and then apply. so 5 1/4 cups in tablespoons is about 84 tablespoons. you can see where that is going. it adds up to a lot of final liquid to apply. so its easy to make enough for your needs with some basic math.

9. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help.

Try it out and report back!

Click to expand...

heisenbubble said:

I got to give it to you man you got the organics down pretty good.Impressive.When i grew organics i would take leaves and grass clippings and box them up and water and cover.repeat for about 2 months and it would turn to this black looking dirt.I would mix it into my garden soil and would grow some very nice vegs.Mix in some chicken shit and it was all good.This stuff your talking is crazy.Here is what i roll with.Not sure whats in it but i know on chop day i have no regrets lol.

View attachment 737075

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oldskol4evr said:

im gonna have to read this 4or5 times to get it ,but i will sure try on a compost pile,is this for making the compost quicker,or is it a long term effect in the soil after compost is applied in the garden,does it stay alive or need reintroduced on regular scheduling

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