Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

[Organikz]

@jumpincactus

I hate to get off topic but that guy earlier after I stated science that's indeed backed regarding terpenoid activation from the presence of certain enzymes...wtf man...he said he's grown organic because he used a GO box. I had to at least let him know good try on that argument but he didnt understand that's stabilized. You get 0 enzyme transfer. Actually the reverse because of preservatives killing enzymes. Why do all these guys really think they understand soil biology? None of them are familiar with any important topics any grower should understand, source and sink, sugar signaling, soil solution chemistry...just basic shit.

Yet they've all done organic growing. Wetdog said it and I'll say it here and now...there is no water only soil that will allow a plant to express it's full genetic potential. Guys don't understand all the goodies are locked inside. For instance rooting hormones is the biggest marketing scheme of all time. Any plant that carries heavy apical dominance contains rooting hormone. Sicilic acid unlocks it.

If you allow a.tomatoe plant to vine across the ground for instance it will.take root in multiple spots giving access to more nutrients.

 

[heisen]

@jumpincactus

I hate to get off topic but that guy earlier after I stated science that's indeed backed regarding terpenoid activation from the presence of certain enzymes...wtf man...he said he's grown organic because he used a GO box. I had to at least let him know good try on that argument but he didnt understand that's stabilized. You get 0 enzyme transfer. Actually the reverse because of preservatives killing enzymes. Why do all these guys really think they understand soil biology? None of them are familiar with any important topics any grower should understand, source and sink, sugar signaling, soil solution chemistry...just basic shit.

Yet they've all done organic growing. Wetdog said it and I'll say it here and now...there is no water only soil that will allow a plant to express it's full genetic potential. Guys don't understand all the goodies are locked inside. For instance rooting hormones is the biggest marketing scheme of all time. Any plant that carries heavy apical dominance contains rooting hormone. Sicilic acid unlocks it.

If you allow a.tomatoe plant to vine across the ground for instance it will.take root in multiple spots giving access to more nutrients.

Not sure why your talking shit?Your plants look like hammered ass.There probably 2 months old and 12 inches tall.All the crap you pour on em They look burnt up worse than if you was pouring out miracle grow.
You need to step back son and think about what your saying.I used the GO BOX as well as grown in 100 percent compost.I was growing beans and tomatoes in chicken shit before you was born.
If you think the differences between what you grow is better than thats good,But i can tell you i dont care how you grow your plant if its sick or unhealthy the quality will suffer.
One other important aspect is genetics.You can take a heirloom variety and grow in bag dirt and a market varity and grow it in the most organic no till bed in the world but the heirloom is always going to taste and look better than the market.there are way to many variables besides just coconut juice and compost teas.I was saying all that is alot of work and you got offended.Well it is alot of work.Look at your plants,All the crap you got em in and they still look like ass.Maybe thats why you took it personal not sure.

 

[Organikz]

Not sure why your talking shit?Your plants look like hammered ass.There probably 2 months old and 12 inches tall.All the crap you pour on em They look burnt up worse than if you was pouring out miracle grow.
You need to step back son and think about what your saying.I used the GO BOX as well as grown in 100 percent compost.I was growing beans and tomatoes in chicken shit before you was born.
If you think the differences between what you grow is better than thats good,But i can tell you i dont care how you grow your plant if its sick or unhealthy the quality will suffer.
One other important aspect is genetics.You can take a heirloom variety and grow in bag dirt and a market varity and grow it in the most organic no till bed in the world but the heirloom is always going to taste and look better than the market.there are way to many variables besides just coconut juice and compost teas.I was saying all that is alot of work and you got offended.Well it is alot of work.Look at your plants,All the crap you got em in and they still look like ass.Maybe thats why you took it personal not sure.

You really can't sit and talk about what you don't understand. Same goes to you. It takes time to build soil biology in a closed system. My plants are doing just fine from my house. Lol. You dont need to tell me.the health of my plants just because the light setup i just changed to wasn't set right. So I guess you just jump into any system and environment and your plants are flawless.

 

[Organikz]

You definitely don't understand the Cornell method. I don't use readily available fertilizer. Bro you didnt.do organic. No way. No how. You don't even understand why we use mulch

Oh no there's a burned tip. What shall I do. Lol. The plants are just getting established and popping 2 nodes a day. You have no info to offer thanks though

 

[heisen]

You really can't sit and talk about what you don't understand. Same goes to you. It takes time to build soil biology in a closed system. My plants are doing just fine from my house. Lol. You dont need to tell me.the health of my plants just because the light setup i just changed to wasn't set right. So I guess you just jump into any system and environment and your plants are flawless.

I got the same lights 20 inches off mine and there only 2 weeks old,So what are you telling me.There are other variables you need to learn to master so you can get them plants closer to the lights.But to break it all down not everyone is a hippie and wants to grow organic.You need to cling on to that.I get it man you wanna grow off the grid and thats great but you dont see large scale grow ops growing this way.Its to time consuming and the pest problems would be off the chain.You keep dumping all that crap in your garden but wait till you end up with blight or PM than thats a wrap.Im happy for you but you have to realize 90 percent of my customers CANNOT tell the difference between what you grow and what i grow.Its more on genetics and there are truck loads of stoners that dont give a shit either.They will take my DWC OG over your organic white widow any day of the week.

 

[Organikz]

Its cool bro. No sense in beating this old dead horse. You have your eyes and i have mine. We do need to come to understand that. Different shit works depending.on how you're set up.

Next time you get PM neem oil kills it. Chamomile tea also. Oh yah aloe, coconut water, compost tea...

 

[Organikz]

@heisenbubble
You're right though. My plants look like shit. Look at that. Can you help me be a better grower like you. Whoa I have a yellow tip what do I do?

 

[Organikz]

@heisenbubble
I do not want to make wake but please understand I'm still dialing in and building the humus layer. Once a good humus layer is established I do nothing but plant and chop. I didn't go about it in a proper way as I should have. Please understand that I know what's going on. My plants took off when I raised the lights. Everything u pointed out is contributed to light and heat stress due to liquid transfer being restricted due to damaged stomata.

I do appreciate you trying to help me bro and I do apologize. It really gets frustrating when opinions trump truth. I can provide a plethora of scientific studies to back my claims. In fact I have a library of aver 200 pdfs if you're interested. I've attached "mechanism of enzymatic reactions" which states eexactly what I attempted to explain just like thc...its an enzyme that attaches to your cannabinoid receptors.

For further organic readings let me know. Any topic...ive got it.

Regarding my light and yours. Understand that different reflectors offer different broadcast patterns. You have a horizontal burner with a wide wing. I have a verticle burn with a narrow broadcast.

I'm not going to say my plants are flawless. I'm still dialing and adjusting to this container size and environment. It will also take a full grow to figure out where I'm lacking at which point I make adjustments...even a still if necessary but I understand excess nitrogen will eventually liberate from my system in the form of gas.

We need to stop this organic/hydro war. No one wins and not necessarily bad but info becomes poorly portrayed. By the end of the argument it looks like 2 blind guys had a shoot out. And the whol3 town got shot to hell.

 

[jumpincactus]

Thanks for keeping it respectable @heisenbubble & @Organikz We can and all do use various methods with great success. I appreciate you both keeping it civil and not escalating into a major pissin match. We are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs over what style and system we use. At the end of the day find what worx for you and run with it.

I would have to agree with @Organikz I personally have great success with living soil and ROLS. There isnt anyway yet that any man made system is going to bring out the full genetic potential of a plants genes like "living soil". The world beneath our feet is another universe just waiting to be tapped into. Nothing coming out of any of those fancy bottles with all the forced over feeding some folks do can compare to what Momma nature provides with a well balanced soil biology. Even most honest scientists will tell you we are just now starting to scratch the surface of the soilberg so to speak and there is so much more to understand with soil biology. I always chuckle when someone knocks organic based growing and are so smug with arrogance that they have shit figured out that the natural system has taken millions of years to perfect. "Quorum Sensing" anyone. Bet you cant buy that shit in a bottle.

In closing at @heisenbubble . I know more than a few farmers that run living soil in perpetual runs indoors and they have NO pest issues worth mentioning. Wanna know the secret? Great well balanced aged living soil firing on all cyclinders, with a array of the correct predators and nematodes and mineral inputs coupled with a solid IPM. Most of the average growers dont even understand what a solid IPM is. This is why we always see so many requests for help in the infirmary forum. Do all these things and understand what your doing and it can and is a beautiful thing. :D Just the way Mother Earth intended.:cool::smoking:

 

[Organikz]

Not to pile on but outdoor organic growing isn't something to boast experience about and it's like a learning to drive a go cart compared to a lambo...theres a little more involved when you crafted the soil from peat moss pumice and shitty compost which should have been EWC...hey we learn every day. I grew a 12 foot tall plant in 9th grade and yielded 4 pounds before I knew anything. I poured blood meal and bonemeal and compost on. Watched the paint dry.

I've seen your dro and I will say you're killing it. No argument there.

 

[Organikz]

Thanks for keeping it respectable @heisenbubble & @Organikz We can and all do use various methods with great success. I appreciate you both keeping it civil and not escalating into a major pissin match. We are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs over what style and system we use. At the end of the day find what worx for you and run with it.

I would have to agree with @Organikz I personally have great success with living soil and ROLS. There isnt anyway yet that any man made system is going to bring out the full genetic potential of a plants genes like "living soil". The world beneath our feet is another universe just waiting to be tapped into. Nothing coming out of any of those fancy bottles with all the forced over feeding some folks do can compare to what Momma nature provides with a well balanced soil biology. Even most honest scientists will tell you we are just now starting to scratch the surface of the soilberg so to speak and there is so much more to understand with soil biology. I always chuckle when someone knocks organic based growing and are so smug with arrogance that they have shit figured out that the natural system has taken millions of years to perfect. "Quorum Sensing" anyone. Bet you cant buy that shit in a bottle.

In closing at @heisenbubble . I know more than a few farmers that run living soil in perpetual runs indoors and they have NO pest issues worth mentioning. Wanna know the secret? Great well balanced aged living soil firing on all cyclinders, with a array of the correct predators and nematodes and mineral inputs coupled with a solid IPM. Most of the average growers dont even understand what a solid IPM is. This is why we always see so many requests for help in the infirmary forum. Do all these things and understand what your doing and it can and is a beautiful thing. :D Just the way Mother Earth intended.:cool::smoking:

This book pertains to what mr cactus mentioned to allowing nature to do the work even dealing with pests "one straw revolution"

I've also attached "neem: the village pharmacy"

 

[oldskol4evr]

well i got to tell ya,im one them hippies for sure,i dont do microscopes,sceintific studys,or someones prefered methods,,just trail and era.i will in a heart beat go to a river bank,to a fresh pile of cow,horse ,chicken ,goat or rabbit or hog pen and pick up my nutrients,i will go to the base of a tree and collect dirt,get on my hands and knees and dig under a fell tree for stage 4 humus and add stage 2 litter from the forest floor. is this the best practice ,probally not but works for me,im not even a mention a money source to have all the delightful trinkets you all mention,just a oldschool scraper that get a little bit doing it the old way,kinda get wrapped up in society these day,seems the jones tecnic is the major factor in life,,i cant and if i could keep up with the jones ,i wouldnt,my food and many ,many ansetors before me live off just plain dirt and work,,so i stick to it,taste better to me,dont matter what i grow,lights ,media choice,setups all that is in the holder and most do quite well,,there will always be battle like this with water and soil hid and led indoor outdoor,,but this i can say friends,,there is no such thing as one or the others plants looking like shit,,if that bitch pop ground or cup and it green its a winner to me,yield dont matter either cause you get something if you let it go all the way,,im a major player with bugs,,hahah son bitchs wipe my squash out 2 years running now,,they love me and my magnetism just seems to keep um here,lmao.
but the main goal and venture is you provide it with thinn own hand,and lot of folk cant even d that,,so regaurdless of your methods to this madness,you both and all us do a fine ass job of producing a lost and forgot art,and i congradulate you both and all,,honestly my old ass enjoy just green florishing plants,they ugly as hell with buds on them,lmao but it is all fun wheather you eat or smoke it,keep it going and teach your methods to all and enjoy,lmao

 

[Organikz]

I found this interesting...

"If you're making Gil's BIM lactic serum I'd like to recommend adding 'mesu' (fermented bamboo shoots) which is part of the cuisine in Nepal, Tibet and the Northern India stated of Darjeeling and Sikkim.

Fermented bamboo contains over 327 strains of lactobacillus bacteria! Pretty amazing indeed. This inoculation along with the local 'BIM' strains will push your serum into the Netherland of bacteria inoculation
HTH
LD"

 

[Organikz]

Here's how to make the BIM. Mix the 2 and you have EM1. If you think about it local bacterium is most effective against pests in your area.

------------Materials needed-------------
---rice (brown or white)
---jar with lid( i use 1 quart mason wide mouth jar)
---milk (any kind, but raw works best)
---strainer( i use a metal one from the grocery store really cheap)
---molasses(optional)
--- a 1 gallon container (optional....depending on if you want/need to make a lot )



follow these easy instructions below.



Now let me take the collection method and split it up some.

Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air.

1.Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like plastic pot with lid.

---basically get some rice, get a jar, put rice and clean fresh water no chlorine and such. shake till the water turns foggy, strain into another jar.

2.Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely.

---like it says, the AIR is key as the air is full of microbes including lactic acid bacteria. just in low low concentrations but along with tons of other microbes, thats why were making more of them. i used a mason jar and had a gap with the lid.

3.Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C.

--- i put mine in a closet, the temp is more stable in there and doesn't have much variation. wait 7 days, youll see a thin layer of something on top.

4. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid.

---like said you will see a thin layer of something( also remember everyone will collect different microbes, as we all live in different places, so your collecting microbes adapted to YOUR area, which makes this work even better.)

5. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk isbest.

--- now just get something, anything to measure. either it be a spoon, a cup, a tablespoon, 1/4 cup doesnt matter( except the fact this will tell you how much you will have when done) ill use 1/4 cup for example. take one 1/4c of your microbes, now add 10 of them with milk.

6. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals.

--- now a week has gone by, by this time the milk will look like cheese at the top of the jar/container. but all goopy. you can either strain it or if you used a wide mouth jar, tip sideways slightly and you can slide a spoon under and take it all out at once. toss it in the compost pile and forget about it. ive never fed it to an animal so i dont know about that. edit: my chickens LOVE this stuff!!!

7. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive.

-- this is where everyone seems to be getting mixed up. the sugars are just for food. like you, they are organisms that need food. without it they will die and im pretty sure ( but could be wrong) that lacto b. isnt cannibalistic lol. now since your only making enough to use now, you dont really need to store any imo. unless you plan to use more in the next few days to a week add some sugar. now with the fridge and sugars it says "or" which is the key word. it says "the sugars keep them alive at room temperature" but like i said i always use it fresh, its cheap, and easy to make, and doesn't need to be applied every time. so why save some and take chances of using liquid with nothing alive or not nearly as many as the fresh stuff?

8. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals.

--- now that you have your culture, we go back to the measuring thing. so this is where you decide how much you really need. 1/4 cup + twenty 1/4 cups = 5 1/4cups. then your going to add that at 2-4 tablespoons per GALLON and then apply. so 5 1/4 cups in tablespoons is about 84 tablespoons. you can see where that is going. it adds up to a lot of final liquid to apply. so its easy to make enough for your needs with some basic math.

9. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help.

Try it out and report back!

 

[oldskol4evr]

Here's how to make the BIM. Mix the 2 and you have EM1. If you think about it local bacterium is most effective against pests in your area.

------------Materials needed-------------
---rice (brown or white)
---jar with lid( i use 1 quart mason wide mouth jar)
---milk (any kind, but raw works best)
---strainer( i use a metal one from the grocery store really cheap)
---molasses(optional)
--- a 1 gallon container (optional....depending on if you want/need to make a lot )



follow these easy instructions below.



Now let me take the collection method and split it up some.

Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air.

1.Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like plastic pot with lid.

---basically get some rice, get a jar, put rice and clean fresh water no chlorine and such. shake till the water turns foggy, strain into another jar.

2.Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely.

---like it says, the AIR is key as the air is full of microbes including lactic acid bacteria. just in low low concentrations but along with tons of other microbes, thats why were making more of them. i used a mason jar and had a gap with the lid.

3.Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C.

--- i put mine in a closet, the temp is more stable in there and doesn't have much variation. wait 7 days, youll see a thin layer of something on top.

4. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid.

---like said you will see a thin layer of something( also remember everyone will collect different microbes, as we all live in different places, so your collecting microbes adapted to YOUR area, which makes this work even better.)

5. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk isbest.

--- now just get something, anything to measure. either it be a spoon, a cup, a tablespoon, 1/4 cup doesnt matter( except the fact this will tell you how much you will have when done) ill use 1/4 cup for example. take one 1/4c of your microbes, now add 10 of them with milk.

6. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals.

--- now a week has gone by, by this time the milk will look like cheese at the top of the jar/container. but all goopy. you can either strain it or if you used a wide mouth jar, tip sideways slightly and you can slide a spoon under and take it all out at once. toss it in the compost pile and forget about it. ive never fed it to an animal so i dont know about that. edit: my chickens LOVE this stuff!!!

7. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive.

-- this is where everyone seems to be getting mixed up. the sugars are just for food. like you, they are organisms that need food. without it they will die and im pretty sure ( but could be wrong) that lacto b. isnt cannibalistic lol. now since your only making enough to use now, you dont really need to store any imo. unless you plan to use more in the next few days to a week add some sugar. now with the fridge and sugars it says "or" which is the key word. it says "the sugars keep them alive at room temperature" but like i said i always use it fresh, its cheap, and easy to make, and doesn't need to be applied every time. so why save some and take chances of using liquid with nothing alive or not nearly as many as the fresh stuff?

8. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals.

--- now that you have your culture, we go back to the measuring thing. so this is where you decide how much you really need. 1/4 cup + twenty 1/4 cups = 5 1/4cups. then your going to add that at 2-4 tablespoons per GALLON and then apply. so 5 1/4 cups in tablespoons is about 84 tablespoons. you can see where that is going. it adds up to a lot of final liquid to apply. so its easy to make enough for your needs with some basic math.

9. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help.

Try it out and report back!

im gonna have to read this 4or5 times to get it ,but i will sure try on a compost pile,is this for making the compost quicker,or is it a long term effect in the soil after compost is applied in the garden,does it stay alive or need reintroduced on regular scheduling

 

[oldskol4evr]

are you straining the rice out and just using the water from the wash?also you say 50 to 75% air,does that mean only 1/4 of the mason jar is gonna have liquid,then tighten jar lid on and ferment

 

[oldskol4evr]

i dont foilar feed at all,im kinda getting that this is what this recipe is really meant for,,when i make tea it is 30 gallons of it to go to my garden

 

[heisen]

Here's how to make the BIM. Mix the 2 and you have EM1. If you think about it local bacterium is most effective against pests in your area.

------------Materials needed-------------
---rice (brown or white)
---jar with lid( i use 1 quart mason wide mouth jar)
---milk (any kind, but raw works best)
---strainer( i use a metal one from the grocery store really cheap)
---molasses(optional)
--- a 1 gallon container (optional....depending on if you want/need to make a lot )



follow these easy instructions below.



Now let me take the collection method and split it up some.

Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air.

1.Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like plastic pot with lid.

---basically get some rice, get a jar, put rice and clean fresh water no chlorine and such. shake till the water turns foggy, strain into another jar.

2.Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely.

---like it says, the AIR is key as the air is full of microbes including lactic acid bacteria. just in low low concentrations but along with tons of other microbes, thats why were making more of them. i used a mason jar and had a gap with the lid.

3.Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C.

--- i put mine in a closet, the temp is more stable in there and doesn't have much variation. wait 7 days, youll see a thin layer of something on top.

4. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid.

---like said you will see a thin layer of something( also remember everyone will collect different microbes, as we all live in different places, so your collecting microbes adapted to YOUR area, which makes this work even better.)

5. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk isbest.

--- now just get something, anything to measure. either it be a spoon, a cup, a tablespoon, 1/4 cup doesnt matter( except the fact this will tell you how much you will have when done) ill use 1/4 cup for example. take one 1/4c of your microbes, now add 10 of them with milk.

6. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals.

--- now a week has gone by, by this time the milk will look like cheese at the top of the jar/container. but all goopy. you can either strain it or if you used a wide mouth jar, tip sideways slightly and you can slide a spoon under and take it all out at once. toss it in the compost pile and forget about it. ive never fed it to an animal so i dont know about that. edit: my chickens LOVE this stuff!!!

7. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive.

-- this is where everyone seems to be getting mixed up. the sugars are just for food. like you, they are organisms that need food. without it they will die and im pretty sure ( but could be wrong) that lacto b. isnt cannibalistic lol. now since your only making enough to use now, you dont really need to store any imo. unless you plan to use more in the next few days to a week add some sugar. now with the fridge and sugars it says "or" which is the key word. it says "the sugars keep them alive at room temperature" but like i said i always use it fresh, its cheap, and easy to make, and doesn't need to be applied every time. so why save some and take chances of using liquid with nothing alive or not nearly as many as the fresh stuff?

8. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals.

--- now that you have your culture, we go back to the measuring thing. so this is where you decide how much you really need. 1/4 cup + twenty 1/4 cups = 5 1/4cups. then your going to add that at 2-4 tablespoons per GALLON and then apply. so 5 1/4 cups in tablespoons is about 84 tablespoons. you can see where that is going. it adds up to a lot of final liquid to apply. so its easy to make enough for your needs with some basic math.

9. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help.

Try it out and report back!

I got to give it to you man you got the organics down pretty good.Impressive.When i grew organics i would take leaves and grass clippings and box them up and water and cover.repeat for about 2 months and it would turn to this black looking dirt.I would mix it into my garden soil and would grow some very nice vegs.Mix in some chicken shit and it was all good.This stuff your talking is crazy.Here is what i roll with.Not sure whats in it but i know on chop day i have no regrets lol.

 

[Organikz]

I got to give it to you man you got the organics down pretty good.Impressive.When i grew organics i would take leaves and grass clippings and box them up and water and cover.repeat for about 2 months and it would turn to this black looking dirt.I would mix it into my garden soil and would grow some very nice vegs.Mix in some chicken shit and it was all good.This stuff your talking is crazy.Here is what i roll with.Not sure whats in it but i know on chop day i have no regrets lol.

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Yessir I understand and this works for outdoor gardening where the ground is already filled with microherds constantly migrating but in a closed loop environment we have to seed our own. Feed the soil.

Again the goal is to allow the most diverse enzymatic reactions we can get so we can hit those profiles we were talking about.

As you can see the plants are demanding and again I'll say it there is no water only mixed soil unless you've been using it for years. Humus is where the magic happens. I haven't developed a good humus layer so I have to drive the microbiology to make available nutrients.

I also have a compost pile but I can't use compost indoors because of the mold and insect issues you were talking about so I filled a couple of 150g smart pots and threw about 300 worms in each. Vermicomposter. Insects cannot live in worm castings. However I don't have a year to wait for it to be ready.

I like the Amazon pics but you have to understand that by building soil from nothing but raw materials and producing flowers it is much more rewarding. And you said the words we don't like "I don't know what's in it". Its your medicine bro.

 

[Organikz]

im gonna have to read this 4or5 times to get it ,but i will sure try on a compost pile,is this for making the compost quicker,or is it a long term effect in the soil after compost is applied in the garden,does it stay alive or need reintroduced on regular scheduling

It will work either way. Its an innoculant. Coot uses it to break down root masses between cycles. He pours it on his root mass and let's it work a couple days then he follows with an AACT.

Yes you would rinse rice and only use the water you pour off. It looks like milk. You can use this as an innoculant in the soil or feed it to the plant with a foliar. The outer layer of tissue is actually dependent on bacteria that create a protective shell.