Changed Too Much At Once, Need Help

[s.d]

been growing for about a year, probably a dozen harvested plants. was using General Organics line, Roots Organic Original, 3 gallon felt grow bags, 400w HPS in my 3'x4' office closet. learned a lot, awesome grows- but had an opportunity to upgrade everything and went for it.

moved to a finished room in the basement, dehumidifier set to 40-45% (kicks off a lot of heat). Veg (5am to 11pm on) in XL tent, 270w HTG LED 2.0 (hung a few inches from the tent ceiling) for the floor-worthy plants in the back half of the tent, T5's for the littles on shelves. humidity around 45-50% and temp between 72-84 F, multiple fans keeping air moving. zero signs of heat stress, or any problems at all- all the girls are happy, growing fast and strong! having an excellent clone success rate as well.

Flower is in a L tent (8pm to 8am on), 6in junior carbon filter, 4in velocity fan exhausting outside the house via a window, oscillating fan on the floor. total of 450w HTG LED 2.0 (270w+180w) hung a few inches from the tent ceiling, temps between 70-81 F, humidity 35-50%.

I made the mistake of trying to feed my flowering ladies as I did with the HPS- dried them out, soaked them down... and PM explosion! been preventing with hydrogen peroxide spray every 5 days in flower, and with sulphur fungicide in veg. the two MOB in flower just can't kick it (original sufferers), buds stopped developing about a week ago, about to scrap them, unfortunately 2 weeks before what could have been harvest. no other plants have shown signs of PM.

because I can't water/feed them as I used to, I changed to top dressing- Veg gets 1 tsp Roots Organic Uprising Grow with 1 tsp Elemental (CalMag) and a handful of earthworm castings; in Flower I use 1 tsp of the Uprising Bloom with 1 tsp Phos Bat Guano, 1/2 tsp of Elemental and just started with 1 tsp of Epsom Salt last Friday. I mix in once a week and water as needed- I cannot water to the point of runoff or humidity goes way up when the lights are out and those poor MOB are fuzzy and everyone is getting sprayed down when the lights are back on.

according to the pictures in this forum and elsewhere online, I have a Cal and Manganese deficiency, but also over-fertilizing. and two plants about 4 weeks from harvest have a few leaves near the top that are dry, almost crispy, with dead sections (see pics).

oh, what did I do.. I still have the 400w HPS but then I'll be dealing with mega heat issues in an area where an AC is impossible. the velocity fan works better against humidity during lights out without the filter attached (which doesn't seem to mask the smell anyhow) so I may remove it. I'm not worried about the PM- I mean I am, but it's under control.. but getting the nutes right and watering right is my most important task right now.

any ideas, suggestions?

 

[X.rm]

been growing for about a year, probably a dozen harvested plants. was using General Organics line, Roots Organic Original, 3 gallon felt grow bags, 400w HPS in my 3'x4' office closet. learned a lot, awesome grows- but had an opportunity to upgrade everything and went for it.

moved to a finished room in the basement, dehumidifier set to 40-45% (kicks off a lot of heat). Veg (5am to 11pm on) in XL tent, 270w HTG LED 2.0 (hung a few inches from the tent ceiling) for the floor-worthy plants in the back half of the tent, T5's for the littles on shelves. humidity around 45-50% and temp between 72-84 F, multiple fans keeping air moving. zero signs of heat stress, or any problems at all- all the girls are happy, growing fast and strong! having an excellent clone success rate as well.

Flower is in a L tent (8pm to 8am on), 6in junior carbon filter, 4in velocity fan exhausting outside the house via a window, oscillating fan on the floor. total of 450w HTG LED 2.0 (270w+180w) hung a few inches from the tent ceiling, temps between 70-81 F, humidity 35-50%.

I made the mistake of trying to feed my flowering ladies as I did with the HPS- dried them out, soaked them down... and PM explosion! been preventing with hydrogen peroxide spray every 5 days in flower, and with sulphur fungicide in veg. the two MOB in flower just can't kick it (original sufferers), buds stopped developing about a week ago, about to scrap them, unfortunately 2 weeks before what could have been harvest. no other plants have shown signs of PM.

because I can't water/feed them as I used to, I changed to top dressing- Veg gets 1 tsp Roots Organic Uprising Grow with 1 tsp Elemental (CalMag) and a handful of earthworm castings; in Flower I use 1 tsp of the Uprising Bloom with 1 tsp Phos Bat Guano, 1/2 tsp of Elemental and just started with 1 tsp of Epsom Salt last Friday. I mix in once a week and water as needed- I cannot water to the point of runoff or humidity goes way up when the lights are out and those poor MOB are fuzzy and everyone is getting sprayed down when the lights are back on.

according to the pictures in this forum and elsewhere online, I have a Cal and Manganese deficiency, but also over-fertilizing. and two plants about 4 weeks from harvest have a few leaves near the top that are dry, almost crispy, with dead sections (see pics).

oh, what did I do.. I still have the 400w HPS but then I'll be dealing with mega heat issues in an area where an AC is impossible. the velocity fan works better against humidity during lights out without the filter attached (which doesn't seem to mask the smell anyhow) so I may remove it. I'm not worried about the PM- I mean I am, but it's under control.. but getting the nutes right and watering right is my most important task right now.

any ideas, suggestions?View attachment 604894 View attachment 604895 View attachment 604896

been growing for about a year, probably a dozen harvested plants. was using General Organics line, Roots Organic Original, 3 gallon felt grow bags, 400w HPS in my 3'x4' office closet. learned a lot, awesome grows- but had an opportunity to upgrade everything and went for it.

moved to a finished room in the basement, dehumidifier set to 40-45% (kicks off a lot of heat). Veg (5am to 11pm on) in XL tent, 270w HTG LED 2.0 (hung a few inches from the tent ceiling) for the floor-worthy plants in the back half of the tent, T5's for the littles on shelves. humidity around 45-50% and temp between 72-84 F, multiple fans keeping air moving. zero signs of heat stress, or any problems at all- all the girls are happy, growing fast and strong! having an excellent clone success rate as well.

Flower is in a L tent (8pm to 8am on), 6in junior carbon filter, 4in velocity fan exhausting outside the house via a window, oscillating fan on the floor. total of 450w HTG LED 2.0 (270w+180w) hung a few inches from the tent ceiling, temps between 70-81 F, humidity 35-50%.

I made the mistake of trying to feed my flowering ladies as I did with the HPS- dried them out, soaked them down... and PM explosion! been preventing with hydrogen peroxide spray every 5 days in flower, and with sulphur fungicide in veg. the two MOB in flower just can't kick it (original sufferers), buds stopped developing about a week ago, about to scrap them, unfortunately 2 weeks before what could have been harvest. no other plants have shown signs of PM.

because I can't water/feed them as I used to, I changed to top dressing- Veg gets 1 tsp Roots Organic Uprising Grow with 1 tsp Elemental (CalMag) and a handful of earthworm castings; in Flower I use 1 tsp of the Uprising Bloom with 1 tsp Phos Bat Guano, 1/2 tsp of Elemental and just started with 1 tsp of Epsom Salt last Friday. I mix in once a week and water as needed- I cannot water to the point of runoff or humidity goes way up when the lights are out and those poor MOB are fuzzy and everyone is getting sprayed down when the lights are back on.

according to the pictures in this forum and elsewhere online, I have a Cal and Manganese deficiency, but also over-fertilizing. and two plants about 4 weeks from harvest have a few leaves near the top that are dry, almost crispy, with dead sections (see pics).

oh, what did I do.. I still have the 400w HPS but then I'll be dealing with mega heat issues in an area where an AC is impossible. the velocity fan works better against humidity during lights out without the filter attached (which doesn't seem to mask the smell anyhow) so I may remove it. I'm not worried about the PM- I mean I am, but it's under control.. but getting the nutes right and watering right is my most important task right now.

any ideas, suggestions?View attachment 604894 View attachment 604895 View attachment 604896

I may be wrong bro, but those little white dots showing up on the leaves in little clusters before turning brown and brittle look like you might have a spider mite problem aswell. Check the undersides of your leaves. Also keep an eye on your ph. Best of luck to you.

 

[s.d]

thanks for responding. those are not before and after pics- the first is unexplained by those I have to ask.. the last two pics are of a recent addition to the flower room, showing a Cal deficiency, if I matched it correctly. no bugs, hardly a fungus gnat!

as for pH, we have well water, reads around 6.8 on it's own and I use only organics. can't water to the point of runoff to test. only flower has issues- suppose I should test a soil sample. heading to HTG today with my pics. will update.

 

[dreamofgreen]

you say you have no bugs, but i'd bet big that you're wrong.
you need at least a 30x scope to see mites and aphids. hold it focused on a section of a leaf underside and wait at least 10 seconds to catch any movement. pretty darn sure you'll see some, the leaf in your second pic looks heavily fed on.

 

[1diesel1]

Look at the top of the leaf the discolered spots are from a spider mite infestation.
Look under the leaf you should see tiny little white dots if there older mites they'll be slightly larger with a black dot on there back. I treat spider mites with my own recipe, 10 habenaro peppers cut up real fine summer in water 20 minutes don't bring to a boil. Spray entire plant be careful the spray is like mace it will hurt you. Your browning leaves looks like the plant was shocked not to worry I've had this happen it'll grow out.

 

[s.d]

thanks for the info. I'll grab the microscope and look again when lights come back on.

LEDs will bleach leaves in certain circumstances- that first leaf is bleached.. but unsure as to why.

doing more reading, humidity going from 40% with lights on to 48% with lights out seems to be a normal thing to have happen. I get nervous and paranoid regarding humidity since that PM bloom- don't want it happening again! those MOB are coming out tonight, getting washed, and see what, if anything, is salvageable.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

That is clearly not mite damage, so that is not your problem. It's always smart to have a good scope to check things out, but (based solely on the photos) I'm confident you can rule that out.

First task should be stabilizing your environment so you no longer have the swings in temperature and humidity you're experiencing, which is the cause of your pm outbreaks. Until you do, your garden will be plagued by that shit

It's hard to say from those pics, but I'd guess you need to feed more Calcium and Potassium. What do the stems and petioles look like? Are they green or have they gone purple?

 

[1diesel1]

I'm not so sure, I got mites it looks about the same as my pics zoom in on the bottom of the leaf mites and eggs.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

View attachment 605085 View attachment 605086 I'm not so sure, I got mites it looks about the same as my pics zoom in on the bottom of the leaf mites and eggs.

Yes you clearly have mites. The OP does not

It does look about the same, but by comparing the differences we learn they are because of different stresses. The difference is that the stippling on your leaf caused by mites is indicated by the white discoloration of the stippling. OP has yellow/brownish spots which is consistent with nutrient deficiency.

The other indicator is that his stippling falls along a discernible pattern along the leaf margins, whereas yours is random and all through the leaf.

 

[s.d]

That is clearly not mite damage, so that is not your problem. It's always smart to have a good scope I check things out, but (based solely on the photos) I'm confident you can rule that out.

First task should be stabilizing your environment so you no longer have the swings in temperature and humidity you're experiencing, which is the cause of your pm outbreaks. Until you do, your garden will be plagued by that shit

It's hard to say from those pics, but I'd guess you need to feed more Calcium and Potassium. What do the stems and petioles look like? Are they green or have they gone purple?

I've been told that LEDs will make plants use up more CalMg than usual, but to feed and water lightly due to how the plants use nutrients under LEDs, and lack of evaporation from less heat. got it right in Veg, but Flower is a massive pain with all these changes. stems of older, large leaves turn a red/purple color (more vibrant color than the pic from poster with the mites)- I have seen this on all my grows thus far and figured it was normal.

I live in Maine, hilly area, we get a pond in our back woods this time of year, a lot of our yard is moss, not grass. since it's a basement window under the deck at ground level, I'll start by blocking off any incoming air from above the exhaust venting. the dehumidifier (50-pint) is running 24/7, set to 40-45%, swings from 40-50% at this setting, and gets emptied about every day and a half to two days, which tells me it's not super humid in that room.

to keep temps down, I've been opening the tent door when lights are on- last night was steady at 77 F, humidity around 44%. I peeked in a little while ago with lights off, temp at 70 F and humidity at 47%. I find this acceptable. the dehumidifier heats up the room, so a fan at the door crack brings in cooler air from the main area of the basement.

tonight is feeding night, I'll up the Elemental to 1 tsp and continue with the Epsom Salt. I have Potassium Bicarbonate- can this be added as a top dressing to help with Potassium?

 

[1diesel1]

Thank you for making that clear.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

You have an environmental issue if you're even seeing pm sprout. It's such a ubiquitous mold that it's basically everywhere, but need proper conditions to fruit. PM is not related to high humidity, but rather inconsistencies in environment.

You also mentioned one strain being affected more than the rest, could be that plant is just really unsuited to your environment and will always experience problems.

Find a source of Ca that is separate from Mg- too many people associate these elements as one, or assume they should be added together, but that is not the case. I have no experience with potassium bicarbonate. I use langbeinite as my source of K

 

[SpiderK]

Start with this ..... Lots of bad advice on the forums regarding nutrient deficiencies.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/understanding-transpiration.82240/#post-1711792

 

[X.rm]

thanks for responding. those are not before and after pics- the first is unexplained by those I have to ask.. the last two pics are of a recent addition to the flower room, showing a Cal deficiency, if I matched it correctly. no bugs, hardly a fungus gnat!

as for pH, we have well water, reads around 6.8 on it's own and I use only organics. can't water to the point of runoff to test. only flower has issues- suppose I should test a soil sample. heading to HTG today with my pics. will update.

Ok, so your in soil but cant water to runoff. You believe you may have a cal deficiency? ... ok, well epsom salts is magnesium sulphate not calcium this may correct your issues somewhat but if you really had a calmag def you would notice chlorosis before the copper brittle issue. Mag regulates photosynthesis wich gives plants they're green pigment. Thats why if you have calmag issues youll notice yellowing almost whitening of the leaves. The fact that your water is at 6.8 and you dont mention correcting this it may be that your ph being oug of whack is rendering some of your nutes unavailable to your plants. Probably potassium and or phosphorus wich are used in higher amounts during flowering. A tell tale sign is the purpling of the petioles they'll probably feel woody too. Try adjusting your ph before watering and including some type of beneficial microbes and digestive enzymes. The innability to water till runoff may cause a potential lockout situation. Best of luck to you.

 

[X.rm]

View attachment 605085 View attachment 605086 I'm not so sure, I got mites it looks about the same as my pics zoom in on the bottom of the leaf mites and eggs.

All the little white spots, yes those. They look like pin pricks. Thats where the spider mites stick they're Probst and suck the juices from. The good news is it isnt an infestation. YET !!! Your going to get a thousand and 1 recipes, i recommend anything with neem oil. It wont damage your foliage. I had success with nuke em from flying skull. Good luck, you just might need it.

 

[s.d]

Ok, so your in soil but cant water to runoff. You believe you may have a cal deficiency? ... ok, well epsom salts is magnesium sulphate not calcium this may correct your issues somewhat but if you really had a calmag def you would notice chlorosis before the copper brittle issue. Mag regulates photosynthesis wich gives plants they're green pigment. Thats why if you have calmag issues youll notice yellowing almost whitening of the leaves. The fact that your water is at 6.8 and you dont mention correcting this it may be that your ph being oug of whack is rendering some of your nutes unavailable to your plants. Probably potassium and or phosphorus wich are used in higher amounts during flowering. A tell tale sign is the purpling of the petioles they'll probably feel woody too. Try adjusting your ph before watering and including some type of beneficial microbes and digestive enzymes. The innability to water till runoff may cause a potential lockout situation. Best of luck to you.

I am new to LEDs, which is where these problems are stemming from- this is a massive learning experience! and I am determined to get it right. seriously appreciating all the responses and thinking points.

LEDs need a different feeding schedule and more adjusting than under HIDs. I am aware that Epsom Salt is for supplementing Magnesium, which is why I added it to the regimen, on advice from the guys at HTG. it has been explained that plants under LED go through more CaMg, and then flowering plants need more Mg anyhow. I used only half of the "light" dosage recommendation of Elemental last time- I will go to a full tsp tonight.

the Uprising Bloom is 3-6-4 and I only use 1 tsp. I will also add Oregonism during this feed, as well as continue with the Phos Bat Guano- I'm sure I have some sea kelp liquid nutes hanging around, will add for extra Potassium.

where exactly should the pH be? I'd get it to about 6.3 when using liquid nutes mixed in the gallon of water. would there be a benefit to flushing them out?

 

[DemonTrich]

Ah the almighty borg. Some will say to use tobacco and what ever boiled for 21 mins, then sprayed....F that nonsense. Hit them.hard and heavy. Don't f with the borg, it's made many seasoned growers quit growing and or finding a new grow spot. Avid, 4 days later forbid f4, 4 days later wipe out. 4 days later avid, 4 days later forbid f4, 4 days later wipe out. Do for one more cycle. Then set off a couple pyrethin bombs. Wait too long and it's all over.

 

[X.rm]

I am new to LEDs, which is where these problems are stemming from- this is a massive learning experience! and I am determined to get it right. seriously appreciating all the responses and thinking points.

LEDs need a different feeding schedule and more adjusting than under HIDs. I am aware that Epsom Salt is for supplementing Magnesium, which is why I added it to the regimen, on advice from the guys at HTG. it has been explained that plants under LED go through more CaMg, and then flowering plants need more Mg anyhow. I used only half of the "light" dosage recommendation of Elemental last time- I will go to a full tsp tonight.

the Uprising Bloom is 3-6-4 and I only use 1 tsp. I will also add Oregonism during this feed, as well as continue with the Phos Bat Guano- I'm sure I have some sea kelp liquid nutes hanging around, will add for extra Potassium.

where exactly should the pH be? I'd get it to about 6.3 when using liquid nutes mixed in the gallon of water. would there be a benefit to flushing them out?

Flushing is ABSOLUTELY necessary when growing in containers, if they're bigger you might get away with it for a while but eventually it will catch up to you. In soil you dont want to add too much, what you want to aim for is making the nutes available for the plant to absorb. I would focus on using organic nutes, innoculating with beneficial bacteria and fungi's and creating optimal conditions in the rhizosphere. I would try to flush at least every 3 weeks.

 

[s.d]

Flushing is ABSOLUTELY necessary when growing in containers, if they're bigger you might get away with it for a while but eventually it will catch up to you. In soil you dont want to add too much, what you want to aim for is making the nutes available for the plant to absorb. I would focus on using organic nutes, innoculating with beneficial bacteria and fungi's and creating optimal conditions in the rhizosphere. I would try to flush at least every 3 weeks.

still using all organic! will flush one per night and add Oregonism, and take it from there. thank you!

 

[X.rm]

still using all organic! will flush one per night and add Oregonism, and take it from there. thank you!

Use 3× the container gl size. i.e 5gl container 15 gl's h20.