Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

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robo

robo

Potassium/calcium is a see-saw that has to be in balance.

The cation exchange with coco has residual K and potassium silicate can lock out calcium. Further, the same high potassium can lock out calcium with Jack's 5-12-26/cal nit. You are best to use an alternate silica source in either scenario.

https://medteknutrients.com.au/hydroponic-coir-substrate-science/

Alternate sources would be rice hulls (charred for quicker availability), stabilized silicic acid or using potassium silicate as a foliar versus drench.
As long as you account for the potassium added from the potassium silicate it shouldn’t be a problem. I like to use hydro buddy when calculating my fertilization.
Yes potassium and calcium is a balancing act but it’s not quite as extreme as you’d think. I’ve ran upwards of 325 ppm of potassium in peak flower while lowering my calcium nitrate input with no detriment to yield or quality. As from my understanding, That run my Glue broke 1.1gpw and upwards of 30% Thc. My best run yet.
the profile I like to run in coco nonetheless is 120-60-280-120-60, n p k ca mg. Keep in mind this is with the additional potassium from the silicate and media calculated in, not additional to the 280-325ppm. As long as you have runoff you should be fine.
Thats why if you look at bloom boosters they all increase your potassium like crazy throughout and near the end of flower. Cannabis loves it.

I’ve found and as well as others here on the farm that with a higher potassium ratioit results in tighter more potent flowers and less leaf material. I actually learned this from dankworth and Jalisco kid from here on the farm.
Hence why I wasn’t a fan of the canna coco profile. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some healthy plants from it.
All I’m saying is once you’ve got your stuff dialed in. Try experimenting with higher potassium later in flower. Its game changing. Seriously.
 
robo

robo

Another great thread if you’re interested in the nutrient profiles/needs of this plant.

I learned a ton over here.
 
cemchris

cemchris

Supporter
I've just noticed the canna coco hasn't got any micros in bar 1, So which additive is it that gives that in the canna range?. I use kelp cold press and fish shit as well as calmag along side, but does this mean I'm lacking in them or is it that they are assuming the coco contains enough micros itself?
Forgive me if I'm missing something, it's late here and I've just come out the tent after 2 hours of sweating, then had a creamy hot chocolate. And an equally creamy bong. So I may be a little red-eyed right now haha

Labeling is a funky thing. You can't always trust them because they will sometimes go very general cause of OR and Cali requirements. You almost to a point have to get something tested to be 100% sure. It has micro's they just don't list them.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

I've just noticed the canna coco hasn't got any micros in bar 1, So which additive is it that gives that in the canna range?. I use kelp cold press and fish shit as well as calmag along side, but does this mean I'm lacking in them or is it that they are assuming the coco contains enough micros itself?
Forgive me if I'm missing something, it's late here and I've just come out the tent after 2 hours of sweating, then had a creamy hot chocolate. And an equally creamy bong. So I may be a little red-eyed right now haha

The label is a guaranteed minimum. Companies will list less NPK/secondaries or leave things off the label to prevent reverse engineering.

The only way to truly know what is in the formula is sending them to a lab for analysis.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

So I never used jacks or even played with it, so I don't know much about their stuff, I take it thats their coco mix or an all purpose ? Do they consider that to be a start to finish mix , or veg and then add a flower P/K boost ?

It is good start to finish in hydro and soilless. In coco, you are going to want to add cal-mag supplementation because of the cation exchange. Do not add potassium silicate or you will most likely lock out Ca.
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

It is good start to finish in hydro and soilless. In coco, you are going to want to add cal-mag supplementation because of the cation exchange. Do not add potassium silicate or you will most likely lock out Ca.

Thanks Bill, Thats what I was thinking, Thats why I was wondering if that was to be their coco mix or what they were selling it as,
 
Fudge

Fudge


Was given this by my grow shop as a freebie, she said to flush her out, then use this, then flush again before resuming my usual nute line. Ive wound down feeding ready to flush as shes 2 weeks away, and wanted to know if anyone had used this, as she said be very careful as could burn the plants.

ill be using non cannabis geared nutes in future, just for these last few runs that im in before I start to stock up on my dry nute list

Ill be flushing with unsulphured blackstrap molassas

any feedback greatly appreciated
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

As long as you account for the potassium added from the potassium silicate it shouldn’t be a problem. I like to use hydro buddy when calculating my fertilization.
Yes potassium and calcium is a balancing act but it’s not quite as extreme as you’d think. I’ve ran upwards of 325 ppm of potassium in peak flower while lowering my calcium nitrate input with no detriment to yield or quality. As from my understanding, That run my Glue broke 1.1gpw and upwards of 30% Thc. My best run yet.
the profile I like to run in coco nonetheless is 120-60-280-120-60, n p k ca mg. Keep in mind this is with the additional potassium from the silicate and media calculated in, not additional to the 280-325ppm. As long as you have runoff you should be fine.
Thats why if you look at bloom boosters they all increase your potassium like crazy throughout and near the end of flower. Cannabis loves it.

I’ve found and as well as others here on the farm that with a higher potassium ratioit results in tighter more potent flowers and less leaf material. I actually learned this from dankworth and Jalisco kid from here on the farm.
Hence why I wasn’t a fan of the canna coco profile. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some healthy plants from it.
All I’m saying is once you’ve got your stuff dialed in. Try experimenting with higher potassium later in flower. Its game changing. Seriously.

Here is a flower mix we was using in the 90's in hydro, I Know guys still using it, just it no additives at all , and growing big massive plants.
146-99-436-60-193-206 n p k mg Ca s.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing


Was given this by my grow shop as a freebie, she said to flush her out, then use this, then flush again before resuming my usual nute line. Ive wound down feeding ready to flush as shes 2 weeks away, and wanted to know if anyone had used this, as she said be very careful as could burn the plants.

ill be using non cannabis geared nutes in future, just for these last few runs that im in before I start to stock up on my dry nute list

Ill be flushing with unsulphured blackstrap molassas

any feedback greatly appreciated

It's true potassium is needed in late flower, but it will reduce the potency if used through flush. I have the potency tests floating around somewhere on my hard drive.

You're better using tap (not RO) water to maintain osmotic pressure during flush.


Here is a flower mix we was using in the 90's in hydro, I Know guys still using it, just it no additives at all , and growing big massive plants.
146-99-436-60-193-206 n p k mg Ca s.

Hello fellow old school grower. That base nutrient looks good.
 
Fudge

Fudge

It's true potassium is needed in late flower, but it will reduce the potency if used through flush. I have the potency tests floating around somewhere on my hard drive.

You're better using tap (not RO) water to maintain osmotic pressure during flush.




Hello fellow old school grower. That base nutrient looks good.
I dont want to use it through flush, its supposed to be a one time thing, ive 2 weeks left for flushing. it says can be used last 3 weeks of flower, ONCE A WEEK , then flush again, then back onto whatever you were feeding before, but she also said it works as a one off in the penultimate, or final week, , just a one feed boost, then flush as usual. . I guess my question is, will the pure K in this do anything ive not already really done with a good feeding regime
 
Fudge

Fudge



either of these any good as a premix to get started just price wise, would be a good buy
 
robnlin

robnlin

1
3
I have been wanting to grow my cannabis using hydro for some time. The bottled nutrient cost was a large reason I was hesitant to jump into hydro. I had been doing sohum living soil with bottled canna nutrients. These were not bad per run as the 1 liter bottles would last thru more than one harvest. But that was mixing it 15 ml per gallon and I was only watering 3-5 gallons a day.

My brother turned me on to the Kratky method for growing vegetables. I was growing squash 2 feet long that tasted better than store bought, my tomatoes were just going nuts compared to their solilbound brethren. I was using the various Chem-Gro formulas such as their cucumber, strawberry and master-blend formulas. Part of that journey involved a lockdown purchase of those nutrient formulas plus the attendant calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate.

I ended up purchasing the Chem-Gro 4-20-39 nutrient mix. I have been mixing it as indicated on their packaging 2 gms 4-20, 2 gms CN and 1.3 gms MS. I ended up starting these plants in soil but due to various watering(over/under) issues and just not being able to leave them alone for any length of time I decided to ditch indoor soil and go hydro.

These are pics from the 1st day they were under 12 hours as compared to day 22 earlier this morning. I have them in 3 gallon smart pots and hydroton pellets. They were in the veg room for about 1.5 weeks before moving them into the flower room right at the beginning of September. I have never seen such explosive growth using soil. I was doing the ground up barley, compost teas, etc.... The upper stems on these plants are so much larger in diameter than I ever was able to achieve in soil.

I am doing a reservoir change today and planned on using the same mix as above but including into that .5 gms of MPK. I plan to follow that for weeks 3-5 before resuming the normal mix till closer to the harvest date.

Also this is my first post so please do not beat me up too much.
 
Terpz719

Terpz719

Here is a flower mix we was using in the 90's in hydro, I Know guys still using it, just it no additives at all , and growing big massive plants.
146-99-436-60-193-206 n p k mg Ca s.
Thanks for sharing that. I know S is really important, but had read that too much can hamper terpenes late into flower. I've been running S closer to 100 ppm, and was concerned that it was to high. Good to know that 206 isn't unreasonable.
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

Thanks for sharing that. I know S is really important, but had read that too much can hamper terpenes late into flower. I've been running S closer to 100 ppm, and was concerned that it was to high. Good to know that 206 isn't unreasonable.

There is going to be people on both sides of that fence lol, However I believe that N-S go hand and hand both are components of protein and are involved in chlorophyll formation, S also plays a part in the conversion of nitrate to amino acids. So if your running a good amount of N you need S to go along with it.

In the last 2 to 3 weeks depending on how things looked is was scaled back anyhow, and the last week is just water
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

either of these any good as a premix to get started just price wise, would be a good buy

Masterblend is all you need, bud!

Thanks for sharing that. I know S is really important, but had read that too much can hamper terpenes late into flower. I've been running S closer to 100 ppm, and was concerned that it was to high. Good to know that 206 isn't unreasonable.

The nutrient ratios are good, even though the K and S may be a touch high. When your nutrient line is diluted, it will be the proper levels for late flower. I just run tap water or an isotonic solution for flush, not K or S.
 
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Fudge

Fudge

I hope you dont mind me posting this here, but I think ANYONE getting into mixing their own nutes or even using a premix or bottled nutrient line, should give this a watch, take notes,.
He explains why plants need what they need and when they need it, so giving a much better understanding of why youre changing from veg to bloom formulas etc, but actually teaching you which elements the plant wants at that stage to get maximum success, I kept leaning towards a premix like masterblend, or looking for others like jacks to use, but after watching this and a lot of help and direction from here Im defo going for mixing my own from scratch.
There is no better way than knowing EXACTLY what youre giving and why youre getting the good/bad results instead of just reaching for a different bottle or brand believing what they say on the label. I must have 10 different bottles sitting in my grow room.
I CANT WAIT
"LEARN FROM THE PRO'S" AS HARLEY SAYS

 
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cemchris

cemchris

Supporter
I have been wanting to grow my cannabis using hydro for some time. The bottled nutrient cost was a large reason I was hesitant to jump into hydro. I had been doing sohum living soil with bottled canna nutrients. These were not bad per run as the 1 liter bottles would last thru more than one harvest. But that was mixing it 15 ml per gallon and I was only watering 3-5 gallons a day.

My brother turned me on to the Kratky method for growing vegetables. I was growing squash 2 feet long that tasted better than store bought, my tomatoes were just going nuts compared to their solilbound brethren. I was using the various Chem-Gro formulas such as their cucumber, strawberry and master-blend formulas. Part of that journey involved a lockdown purchase of those nutrient formulas plus the attendant calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate.

I ended up purchasing the Chem-Gro 4-20-39 nutrient mix. I have been mixing it as indicated on their packaging 2 gms 4-20, 2 gms CN and 1.3 gms MS. I ended up starting these plants in soil but due to various watering(over/under) issues and just not being able to leave them alone for any length of time I decided to ditch indoor soil and go hydro.

These are pics from the 1st day they were under 12 hours as compared to day 22 earlier this morning. I have them in 3 gallon smart pots and hydroton pellets. They were in the veg room for about 1.5 weeks before moving them into the flower room right at the beginning of September. I have never seen such explosive growth using soil. I was doing the ground up barley, compost teas, etc.... The upper stems on these plants are so much larger in diameter than I ever was able to achieve in soil.

I am doing a reservoir change today and planned on using the same mix as above but including into that .5 gms of MPK. I plan to follow that for weeks 3-5 before resuming the normal mix till closer to the harvest date.

Also this is my first post so please do not beat me up too much.

Ive used a bunch of chem-gro since they are local. Including the 4-20-39, which is just a a tweaked tomato formula with micro's a little different.

That mix works. 2/2/1.6 CN/Chem/MS puts you at:

Untitled.png
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

Masterblend is all you need, bud!



The nutrient ratios are good, even though the K and S may be a touch high. When your nutrient line is diluted, it will be the proper levels for late flower. I just run tap water or an isotonic solution for flush, not K or S.

exactly, I think full strength is 14-1500ppm so if your running the mix at 900-1000 ppm your not running the full K or S, this is actually a 3 part formula veg pre-flower and flower , that was specifically built for what we wanted by a couple botanist's in Cali, like I say that was in the 90's , i've changed it a bit as I run it in soil now
 
Terpz719

Terpz719

I hope you dont mind me posting this here, but I think ANYONE getting into mixing their own nutes or even using a premix or bottled nutrient line, should give this a watch, take notes,.
He explains why plants need what they need and when they need it, so giving a much better understanding of why youre changing from veg to bloom formulas etc, but actually teaching you which elements the plant wants at that stage to get maximum success, I kept leaning towards a premix like masterblend, or looking for others like jacks to use, but after watching this and a lot of help and direction from here Im defo going for mixing my own from scratch.
There is no better way than knowing EXACTLY what youre giving and why youre getting the good/bad results instead of just reaching for a different bottle or brand believing what they say on the label. I must have 10 different bottles sitting in my grow room.
I CANT WAIT
"LEARN FROM THE PRO'S" AS HARLEY SAYS

Good information from Harley. but holy crap RAW's products are crazy expensive. If you start mixing your own from salts you can get the goods a ton cheaper. I've simplified a lot and more follow Dr. Bugbee. You may find his presentations of interest. He calls for a 2-1-2 all through the growth cycle.
 
Terpz719

Terpz719

Masterblend is all you need, bud!



The nutrient ratios are good, even though the K and S may be a touch high. When your nutrient line is diluted, it will be the proper levels for late flower. I just run tap water or an isotonic solution for flush, not K or S.
Thanks. I've got the link you shared elsewhere about isotonic solutions, but hadn't had a chance to read it yet.
 
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