Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[Quantrill]

what shipping option is 260?

send me an email, i'll see what better options there are.

 

[Savage Henry]

Hi all, looks like I'll be giving the jacks 3-2-1 a shot in one of my flowering rooms and see how I do. I'll start out with the straight 3-2-1 and add a 7.8% agsil dilution @2.5-5ml/gal.
Curious if anyone has an idea of how much/what kelp to use as well as Humic and fulvic acids, looking into the powdered forms at kelp4less.

Also worth noting I'm running the ladies in botanicare cocogro aeration mix (approx. 70/30 coco/perlite w/some added worm castings)

Thanks!

 

[Fresh Starts]

I've been a using Bioag Cytoplus for over a year now and I'm very satisfied with the results. (Stress reduction in transplant, nutrient uptake, and immune system response) The only thing I don't like about cytoplus is that it doesn't like to completely dissolve- like 10 or 15%. I've started using technoflora seaweed extract for compost tea's because it completely dissolves.

I've tried the fulvic acids from kelp for less as well as the powdered molasses but I was a little turned down by the shelf life of the product. I let the bags hang out for 8 months on a shelf and they both turned into rocks that were impossible to break a part- especially the fulvic acid. I'm sure with strict storage containers that issue could be side stepped.

 

[Quantrill]

Ferti-Organic Brand soluble fulvic acid, used at 0.25 gram per gallon of final volume working solution. This gives you about 45 ppm fulvic acid in the final strength working solution. You can make a liquid concentrate to make easier to dose.

As a matter of fact, at least in my opinion, all the Ferti-Organic brand organic components are top shelf. Soluble Seaweed extract, Soluble Humic acid extract, Ferti-Nitro amino nitrogen and the Soluble Fulvic acid. They are all hygroscopic powders.

The fulvic acid product from kelp4less "looks" to me more like a potassium humate product.

 

[Savage Henry]

Thanks for the input.

I'm becoming concerned with using humic because of its antagonism with cano3. it appears that 100ppms or higher of calcium nitrate lessens the efficacy of humic acid. Found a study testing the two at various ppms here:https://www.researchgate.net/public...pepper_seedling_growth_under_saline_condition

Granted the study has some mitigating factors (medium, medium amendments) but it supports some rumblings of the issue I've read on the forums.

I contacted bioag about some samples of the cytoplus but am concerned about the added micros. Would the additional ppms of these be negligible?

Ordered a lb. of the soluble fulvic (along with some mkp and map). Nice and inexpensive. My concern with this product is a discrepancy between its gauranteed analysis (http://www.ferti-organic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Soluble-FA-label3.pdf) and technical sheet (http://www.ferti-organic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Soluble-FA-tech-sheet7.pdf) they show the npk at 0.4-0-0 and 0.4-0.03-1.68 respectively. I emailed the manufacturer about this and we'll see what they have to say.

Anyway, I need to sit down with the nute calculator and play with the numbers. And see what else google scholar has to say about the antagonism.

As far as the kelp goes I picked up some kelp meal to use in aact, we'll see how it works out.

Currently testing the 3-2-1 plus 1ml/gal of the protekt (the mad farmer equivalent, had a sample sitting around). On two rows in veg. Gonna give em a week and see where we're at comparison-wise to 'ol botanicare.

 

[Quantrill]

Did Betty get back to you regarding your question about the different analysis for the soluble fulvic acid product from Ferti-Organic?

My understanding is the label is the Guaranteed Minimum, and the tech analysis is the actual analysis.

I don't think they can even claim the Phosphorus on the label at such a low level, according to the fertilizer labeling laws. One thing to note is the tech analysis is listed in elemental percentage and not P2O5 or K2O percentage.

Anyway, let me know what you think of the fulvic powder after you have used it a bit.

 

[Savage Henry]

Alright, so it turns out the fulvic is, in fact, 0.4-0.03-1.68. Confirmed it with ferti-organic, @Quantrill

I ran a full mix w/ the 321, 1ml/gal 8% sil and .25g/gal of fulvic. Along with a foliar and drench of ewc/alfalfa meal/kelp meal aact the girls took the F off. Cooked like four of em (no big deal, I needed to cull a few anyway), but I believe that was due to an inadequate flush before switching nutes (was running a botanicare pure blend mix).

Been having some high ph issues but it should be ironed out, my own stupid mistake, adding too much ph down (citric acid) then ph up (potassium hydroxide) and then down again (like an idiot) so the Rez kept swinging up to 6.5 while I was at work.

So Now 4-5 days into 12/12 I decided to minimize the variables and get things under control before I start adding things. currently running just jacks/calnit/and Epsom at 80% of the 321. Now ironing out some yellow new growth and tip burn, I think due to overwatering. Gonna drop back from 6 irrigations till runoff per day to 4 and hopefully that will calm things down.

Other than that things are ripping along, room temps and rh are solid, swinging between 75-80 and 55-65 respectively. Will start up the co2 this week, have been hesitant because of ceiling height and the inevitable doubling or tripling in stretch, but nothing a trellis can't handle I'm sure.

So all that aside, here's the ppms of my proposed mix with 321 plus .5g/gal of agsil 16h (32ppm sil, 35ppm k) and .25g/gal of the ferti-organic fulvic.

N: 122
P: 41
K: 207
Mg: 76
S: 99
Ca: 135
Si: 32.5 (approx)

Seems like an awful lot of K for coco, any, more experienced, opinions are welcome.

Also, how do ya'll plug the 9.7% jr peters Epsom into the calc? Can't figure out the exact S content, have it in as 12.8%.

 

[Savage Henry]

One more thing I'm going to lay out for discussion, was researching the metals content of some of the more popular low pk bloom boosters and noticed the common thread between them are increased levels of zinc compared to most base nutrients:

Budswel:

Botanicare sweet (raw):

Canna boost:

You see it even more with two of the high pk boosters:

Beastie bloomz:

Cha Ching:

It appears that these companies may be onto something with the zinc?

Worth noting is jacks hydro has .015%zinc, m.o.s.t. has 4.5

 

[Quantrill]

when you jack up the phosphorus, you likely lock out zinc uptake.
Maybe that is what they are trying to avoid?

0.015% = 150 ppm

 

[Fresh Starts]

One more thing I'm going to lay out for discussion, was researching the metals content of some of the more popular low pk bloom boosters and noticed the common thread between them are increased levels of zinc compared to most base nutrients:

Budswel:
View attachment 573856

Botanicare sweet (raw):
View attachment 573857

Canna boost:
View attachment 573858

You see it even more with two of the high pk boosters:

Beastie bloomz:View attachment 573859

Cha Ching:
View attachment 573860

It appears that these companies may be onto something with the zinc?

Worth noting is jacks hydro has .015%zinc, m.o.s.t. has 4.5

Some of those zinc ppm readings are outrageous. High phosphorus is a waste of coin to use on cannabis. There may be certain strains that can uptake/tolerate high phosphorus.

207 K is not that high to use on coco. The 3-2-1 recipe usually has 215 K and I've run that all the way through week 7 on crops before. It look like the 207 K number is after you are diluting it to 80%?

6 Times a day watering seems excessive. When you water that often (even with heavy runoff) you encourage the plant to uptake more N-P-K and eventually build up toxicities. Of coarse watering 6 times a day is some times the right thing to do. Like when you have a 5 Ft. plant in a 2 gallon pot..

 

[Savage Henry]

For sure, man, this is only my second run on drippers, learning that you can't hammer these plants with salts like you can with organics. Was hitting em hourly in flower with no runoff using a pure blend pro mix last time. They're loving the 4x a day at the moment.

I was under the impression that the 3-2-1 was 80% of the mix recommended by jr peters. So I was using 80% of 80%, if that makes sense (2.4-1.6-0.8 jacks-calnit-Epsom g/gal).

Any tips on dropping the N a bit for mid-flower? Thinking going from 2g calnit to 1.5.

 

[Savage Henry]

Hi all, I've been running the jacks for about a month and a half now and am seeing great results. I'm 6 weeks into flower at the moment and am considering what to use as a bloom booster. I have mkp and Map to fix up some Moab but am hesitant to start using it at the typical 1g/gal with the base cut in half.

How many ppms of P are ya'll running when boosting? I read somewhere that anything over 60 will inhibit the microherd.

Also it seems quite a few people just run the 321 all the way thru, I'm just a bit paranoid about potentially sacrificing some yield by not Giving a strong kick of pk.

 

[GoGreene]

Ill skip the MG fo sho :) maybe if someday they come out with something for hydroponics that isn't bright blue and filled with heavy metals I might give it a try.

Fwis:)



thanks, im going to go do some reading:)

any thoughts on the nutrient profile for actual cannabis production ??

I used mg for tomatoes once on a grow wasnt so bad

 

[Tejashidrow]

Hey
I found this DIY carbo load on the Internet

diy carboload recipe (powder version)

XYLITROL
TABLE SUGAR (simple sugar) substitue with any simple sugar
CARBO GAIN by NOW -(complex sugar) substitue with any complex
Mix 1-1-1
Shake to mix uber well
1.5 teaspoon per gallon

Has anyone used this or Carboload with veg&abloom by hydroponics research ?
Thanks

 

[PhatNuggz]

Found this link for cheap alternatives for hydro.

Not sure if anyone has used these knockoff's.

http://greenleafnutrients.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&zenid=oqjkqnb8pahdviv3m6l08c3kg2

I saw your Greenleaf link. Are you still using it/them... flower booster and/or Blooming Powder?

 

[PhatNuggz]

I too am leery of most nutrient lines, consequently I have been studying nutrients for a few years now.

In addition to using questionable quality salts the water used to mix the salts plays a very important role. In order to know the water quality, for 4 years I purchased a one part dry formula from Hydroponic Research and use RO water from my system. This, like 99% of the water being used to make liquid nutes is biologically DEAD. Fascinating subject that led me research how to make it biologically ALIVE.

Search YT for structured water and vortexed water. I combine these in a DIY water processor, THEN I mix the dry nutes. That was until yesterday when I met the president of Emerald Harvest nutrients at my hydro shop. They begin with pure water, then they vortex it, then they add high quality salts while vortexing to make cannabis friendly nutes. I just started using their Cali-Bloom 2 part today. Drop by my thread Hail Hydro to follow along

 

[Winged Sun]

Waynee
I do agree organic veggies always seem just a lil bit sweeter:) Looks like I need to start growing more of my own food as well.

Tried to find the levels of toxic metals in this product, went to the common sites but no luck, have also contacted J.R peters to request a list of heavy metals for the hydroponic formula.

http://www.regulatory-info-uap.com/


anyone know of a better site to check ?

Squarepusher
I did find a more detalied label for the two products, and have inluded them as a pdf download, you DesertS where you at:DView attachment 149094

View attachment 149095

Google the msds for their product. Material safety data sheet.

 

[Lovelylisa]

thanks for stopping in wayne, your buds always look so beautiful bro:)

I def don't want crappy tasting buds fo sho. I wonder if this hydroponic nutrient from jacks is total crap.

So MG has heavy metals, thats not cool at all:( If I used MG for my veggie garden am I slowly poisioning myself?

Yes I believe you are slowly killing yourself. When using anything with hi metal content. Be very careful with what you put on your garden be it cannabis ot vegetables. On the bottle or bag it always has on it a web site to check the amount of metals. I will look it up right in the store. I don't care, I want to know what I am consuming.

 

[guido420]

Hello guys. I got a problem. My re-shipper in the us(im up north in Scandinavia) has wised up to that my JR peters shipments don't contain Health and Beauty products:p
This means I now need to find someone who will ship JR peters products worldwide. should not be to hard, but alas... my google searches yielded naught.
So I turn to you, the beautiful people who turned me on to Jacks in the first place. Do you have any clue?
Thanks.

Hey Don't know if you heard back on this..but here is what I am gonna have to do here in Hawaii. The shipping on the large bags of Jack's Hydro is ridiculous.

Find the distributor for ICL/Everris for scandanavia..local AG store should have it.

For the Hydro 5-12-26, I am using Peters 5-11-26. My recollection is that the PETERS brands are the formula during the Non Peters family days. Not sure on the history. But check the SKU. There is one that is closer to the Jack's than the other, and is 8% Sulfur. Here is a side by side for reference and specific SKU to ask for.

 

[skywalkerOG]

Anything change with this? I'm going to run the tried and true and was curious if there was any new formulas than a few years ago?

Was trying to remember the formula for veg vs flower. I know they are close, with the Veg getting more N.